Hi :@dar100, you seem fairly clued in on the 'landscape'. Have you ever come across Human Givens?, or any opinion on it? I see a lot of practitioners quoting their only qualification as being the Human Givens Diploma, I guess whether that will cut it with CORU is a question (...which I posed in the regulation thread...).
Overall I'm looking at Counselling/Psychotherapy as a 2nd career after I have my kids through college, about another 9 years, by which time I'll be in mid 50s and def 'now or never' time. I'd plan to have the academics covered (part time), and some personal sessions done, by then, and be ready to launch into supervised sessions.
Is it worth it at that age??, I'd hope to work away until 75 or so, health permitting. Current career is well paid but otherwise unrewarding, so I think I'll have 'done my bit' to get kids through college and a few bob into a pension and no debt, and sure worst case if I fail miserably at it I can go back to old career to pay the bills. I guess as get older then self-employment is the only option, that wouldn't bother me, would be part of the attraction, but maybe a few years 'in the trenches' of HSE/NHS etc to build the CV could be a good strategy. If there's any fatal flaws in any of that thinking your advice would be appreciated. Thank you.
Several people have asked on the boards over the years does anyone have a lived experience of ICHAS?, I personally dont, but have friends who have. As a long time fully accredited psychotherapist ( IAHIP/ICP since 2006) with a masters degree in integrative psychotherapy (A university masters) and other post grad trainings. I can state having spoken over the years to 3 people/friends (non clients) who did an ICHAS masters in CBT, or masters and/or degree in counselling/psychotherapy with ICHAS/NCII. They all felt their course was poor, left them poorly trained and were not happy with their ICHAS courses in general. One friend who already previously completed a degree in social care with a recognised university told me, she felt her 2 years ICHAS masters hadnt prepared her to work safely with clients and her understanding of counselling was still poor (despite a good ICHAS grade) so she had never used it and stayed in social care. Another ICHAS former student told me he was embarrassed to tell other counsellors where he had trained, and when he tried to find a counsellor accredited with IACP or IAHIP he found some of them didnt want to take him as a client when he disclosed he was ICHAS trained.He did eventually find a IACP counsellor to see him as a client. Another friend who works with children in her day job, wanted to become a play therapist and considered a ICHAS play therapy degree (could have been a masters not sure), but after she did some research (including asking me did I know anything about ICHAS and I repeated the above) re: accreditation?, she has now decided to go with CTC (Childrens Therapy Centre) as their courses are fully accredited with IAHIP. Personally I havent experienced ICHAS courses so my only info has come from the above conversations, but I think if the only way to get accreddited from an ICHAS course is to be accredited by their own accreditation body who accredit their own courses (APPC) and not say independant bodies like IACP or IAHIP etc then its not a training route I would advise to propective students. There are plenty of courses available which meet the accreditation criteria for IACP etc which may be longer, more expensive and possibly more challenging, but I think they are worth it from the feedback I have recieved from former ICHAS students. I'm sure there are many happy ex ICHAS students but personally I havent met them yet. Hope this helps.
Trishis wrote: » Dar, I'm not going to go on about this - but you can't possibly know what the government is going to decide ! I work somewhere where things like this are put together all the time and you cannot say that you know what the craic is with CORU !! It's ridiculous. Also a level 8 is four years. A level 9 is 1-2 yrs with ICHAS. I don't have confirmation bias - if anything I'm trying to get you to be open minded and see that what the paid accreditation bodies are telling you isn't necessarily what you should believe - also you have to take life experience into consideration - there is a lot of factors that make up a good Psychotherapist - and if you are one already I hope you realise that ! I have researched this a lot and spoken to the accreditation bodies, CORU, the PSI - it's a tricky situation at the moment and even they don't know the final outcome, so I really doubt you do ! I asked for opinions and I expect them to be balanced and friendly and helpful. I dunno where the narkiness tone in your messages to me is coming from but I'm done with the chat
Trishis wrote: » Also do a Google search - there is counselling psychology masters in Ireland. Now I'm done.
dar100 wrote: » yes a four year level 9. All the position papers have been submitted, they will be taking the advice of the experts in the field on this. So if they don't know what it will be, why are ICHAS sayint it mustbe a 4 year degree to be a counsellor? it seems to me that you are trying to validate your confirmation bias. You ask for opinions, yet you are not happy with any opinions you have received. I tell you what, go do the degree, see what position you are in when you finish. Unless you choose to practice in private, you will be without work. May be the case, however, try find a masters in counselling or clinical psychology in Ireland, you wont as they are all phd.
dar100 wrote: » yes a four year level 9. All the position papers have been submitted, they will be taking the advice of the experts in the field on this. [Snipped] it seems to me that you are trying to validate your confirmation bias. You ask for opinions, yet you are not happy with any opinions you have received. I tell you what, go do the degree, see what position you are in when you finish. Unless you choose to practice in private, you will be without work. May be the case, however, try find a masters in counselling or clinical psychology in Ireland, you wont as they are all phd.
Freedive Ireland wrote: » I'm not trying to derail the thread but asked the same question in another one, is there any evidence to show higher academic achievement shows better client outcomes? Obviously people need training and supervision before working with anyone, however do extra/higher qualifications lead to a "better" job because of client outcomes or just because it's what we expect and reward? I'm leaving CPD aside as it's a no brainer. As was stated above, people go with professionals they trust and there are studies to show it is the relationship that matters not the type of therapy employed. I'm asking the question here, not making a judgment?
Trishis wrote: » That's misleading to people reading this - you have no idea what CORU will decide is required as they don't even know themselves - I know this because I have spoken to them. At present they are assuming a QQI level 9. Also you only need a Masters to be a Counselling Psychologist in Ireland. Speak to the PSI
dar100 wrote: » Ok I'l break it down for you. [snipped] a 2 year masters in psychotherapy with say a background in some cognate degree is far different than what you mention. [snipped] lived experience is only relevant when one has the process behind them to know how to utilise it (see my above point). your situation with that many years of psychology behind you may be different, however, the vast majority of people don't have that, therefore it will effect them also, in Ireland you need a phd to become a counselling psychologist and finally, CORU will have the final say [snipped]
Trishis wrote: » Hiya, yes I have a 6 yr psychology degree completed so I do have background - however if I want to become a counselling psychologist now the masters is also 1 yr. So I don't know why the ICHAS masters in psychotherapy is getting so much stick ! I just want to make sure that we are being objective here and not jumping on bandwagons Also I have spoken to CORU and they will be replacing the private bodies. CORU are a government body and therefore will be the final say on who is qualified and who isn't. Also I'm not talking about myself, but I don't think you can say that anyone will be 'the worst possible therapist imaginable' - I think there is a bit of ego mixed up in that ! Who are you to judge?! Many people work with people after doing diplomas and I have asked people who went to them how they found the the treatment - and they all replied that the bought the person not the qualifications! - so I think you are forgetting about lived experience that can't be taught. Just my two cents ! Don't let academia dictate who you are or how good you are, it's not everything !
dar100 wrote: » 1) I cant see CORU replacing existing bodies 2) its a two years masters so if you have not got an undergrad in the same discipline you will be the worst possible therapist imaginably. There's a reason why masters in counselling and psychotherapy are 4 years duration 3) the guidelines for regulation are quite clear, 4 year undergrad to use the term counsellor, 4 year masters to use psychotherapist. 4) [snipped] 5) yes I have lived experience of this institute
Trishis wrote: » Hey ! So when CORU come on board the other accreditation bodies will cease to exist? So why is the QQI level 9 Masters ICHAS provides so bad ? It won't matter about APCP or IACP etc... Also CORU have said they don't know what the regulations will be yet, but it's possible to be a level 9 qualification. Which ICHAS is, so what's the problem with it? Has anyone completed the course? Any lived experience or are we going on hearsay alone? Just curious because an MA is a lot of money obviously so want to choose wisely Thanks for your time
purified wrote: » Yeah totally understand! The regulations are basically saying that it needs to be at least fetac level 8. But again that might change in the future as regulation isn't actually in yet. I know numerous courses have restructured as a result of the possible incoming regulation. Also just to check whether or not it is coru that they will have to be accredited with as social care and psychotherapy have similarities but the nature of the work and actual doing of it is very different, like social workers can't be counsellors unless they have done training. I know there are plans to formalise social work and social care to ensure workers are trained appropriately. To the best of my knowledge the discussion in counselling and psychotherapy is happening at the same time but is a separate group. There is a bit of uncertainty because a lot of the potential requirements are hearsay but a lot are saying masters level. I suppose it really is what you feel suits you best. Might be worth having a look for past masters students of ichas and getting first hand feedback
PMMG wrote: » Thanks for your reply. [snipped] I on the other hand have lots and lots of life experience and am far away from leaving cert age I am limited in terms of travel, time and money and ICHAS seems to suit me best in that regard. I am not overly worried about the self-insight part as I have done plenty of work around that and most certainly know who I am and what I bring to the table so to speak. I am however very worried about future regulations and what it will mean for people who are trained by the ICHAS. So basically what I am saying is that if the only difference is the lack of emphasis on self development then for me its not going to be a huge issue given that I have and stiill do a lot of work around this, but if this difference effects my chances of getting registered with CORU down the line then I am worried!!!
dar100 wrote: » Your under grad needs to be psi accredited, if not you will have to do the hdip!!
