Kevin Irving wrote: » Even if the ECU is reset back to original, the fuel pump for example may log that a higher pressure than the original factory limit was requested. The only explanation for that would be a non-factory map. (maybe not, an example for this discussion).
Kevin Irving wrote: » Directly from my car's manual below. Almost a 14 year old design as this stage but has 39 ECU's of different complexities around the car.
Henry Ford III wrote: » Are you advocating fraud there?
amf78 wrote: » Thanks to all for the useful information. I do have one final question which might sound naive or beside the point but here it is. Considering the fact that there are quite a few road worthy, perfectly legal cars in Ireland with more than 300 bhp under the bonnet, an increase from 150 to 170-180 bhp seems rather trivial. Then what about heavily modified cars, who are clearly geared towards racing but cruise public roads without restrictions... where do those guys get insured?
Titzon Toast wrote: » When did you turn into Ned Flanders?! Lighten up man, he's not talking about swapping the engine or nailing an extra turbocharger to it. @ the OP, get a remap and say nothing, they're great fun.
s15r330 wrote: » Half the cars in the country must have void insurance as something as simple as bigger wheels is a modification..
grogi wrote: » And I have always declared different rim sizes. I was driving Prius on 205/55/r16 instead of 195/55/r16 and that was noted down by insurer as well.
Henry Ford III wrote: » That's the same wheel size but a wider tyre.
shietpilot wrote: » Can you back this up and provide an example make/model that has a fuel pump capable of storing the maximum pressure ever requested?
shietpilot wrote: » 39 engine control units? Hmmm
Henry Ford III wrote: » I didn't. My point is by not disclosing a material mod. like a remap you are quite deliberately jeopardizing your cover, and future insurability. I'm all for a bit of fun, provided it's legal.
rex-x wrote: » The insurance companies have made it so that its impossible to do it legally.... I spent many years getting shafted by Quinn Direct with my 50% increased premiums and engineers reports for being honest until Liberty took over and instead of a renewal sent me a PFO letter saying they didn't want my 10 years no claims and 0 points as I was too high risk... At that point I gave up! There is not one single company in Ireland that will allow power related modifications and I wont be told what I can or cant do to my car :mad: If I crash through someones fence and knock down their prize winning endangered zebra while sailing through their priceless art gallery I look forward to being sued by the insurance company who try to recoup their costs because I didn't tell them about my remap, bring it on
Kevin Irving wrote: » ... actually shows locations of 48 different control modules. New cars would have many more.
selectamatic wrote: » Think you need to swap to a smaller kompressor (supercharger) pulley to make it worthwhile as this will increase boost slightly a freer flowing exhaust would help too. I think a remap on its own would only see very marginal gains.
CiniO wrote: » But afaik there's nothing illegal in non disclosing such facts to insurance company. Your legal requirement is to have insurance policy for the car you're driving. By purchasing one you are fulfilling your legal requirement. If you don't disclose facts as mods, etc to your insurer might be a breach of the insurance contract and might cause your insurer to re refuse to pay for damage to your own car, as well as they might look into recouping from you the amount they paid to third party. But there's nothing illegal in not disclosing all the facts to insurer.
Henry Ford III wrote: » What if you cause serious injury or death to an innocent 3rd party though? If your power mod. was discovered your own damages would not be covered and you'd then find it impossible to obtain cover again due to your policy being voided because of your blatant non disclosure.
CiniO wrote: » But afaik there's nothing illegal in non disclosing such facts to insurance company.
Your legal requirement is to have insurance policy for the car you're driving. By purchasing one you are fulfilling your legal requirement.
amf78 wrote: » The issue shouldn't be disclosure or non-disclosure, the issue should be whether the said modification, disclosed or not, was the sole (or even contributing) factor in the accident. It wouldn't be hard for an expert in the field to convince the jury that the said modification is irrelevant, when, for instance, you have model variants out there with the same - or possibly more - horsepower and torque. If power increase is the added risk, then 300 or 400 bhp cars shouldn't be allowed anywhere outside racing tracks, whether or not it's a factory config. That's what would happen in a normal world. In a world where we're one step away from making it illegal to cross the street without proper supervision if you're under 21, it's a whole different story.
If there's a law against driving without insurance, then there's should be a law preventing insurance companies from refusing to cover road worthy cars. It's that simple.
amf78 wrote: » The issue shouldn't be disclosure or non-disclosure, the issue should be whether the said modification, disclosed or not, was the sole (or even contributing) factor in the accident. It wouldn't be hard for an expert in the field to convince the jury that the said modification is irrelevant, when, for instance, you have model variants out there with the same - or possibly more - horsepower and torque. If power increase is the added risk, then 300 or 400 bhp cars shouldn't be allowed anywhere outside racing tracks, whether or not it's a factory config. That's what would happen in a normal world. In a world where we're one step away from making it illegal to cross the street without proper supervision if you're under 21, it's a whole different story. If there's a law against driving without insurance, then there's should be a law preventing insurance companies from refusing to cover road worthy cars. It's that simple.
grogi wrote: » But that's not only about that. The risk profile of a driver that fancy modifications is completely different from one that drives unmodified car with same power.
grogi wrote: » It makes sense that insuring a more risky driver is more expensive.
grogi wrote: » It is not that simple. If such law is introduced, you will just get €30000/year quotes instead of refusal to cover.
Henry Ford III wrote: » What if you cause serious injury or death to an innocent 3rd party though? If your power mod. was discovered your own damages would not be covered and you'd then find it impossible to obtain cover again due to your policy being voided because of your blatant non disclosure.http://www.boards.ie/ttfthread/20575...1#post98104401 I note from some of your other posts that Liberty offered to re-examine your case following their decision not to renew your policy but after raising the issue with them you declined to provide details. Why? Do you realise that their decision not to offer renewal terms should have been disclosed to your subsequent/current insurer? I wonder what they'd have said if it had been?
rex-x wrote: » As I said before I look forward to the day Libertys offer was basically to insure me on a "standard" car and not to re-evaluate the situation
Henry Ford III wrote: » You didn't answer my questions. Never mind. p.s. You said in your other post that they declined to renew. I'm told that's not allowed. If they carry the current risk they have to quote a renewal premium. Interesting that you didn't pursue this.
amf78 wrote: » Hi, I'm considering getting my car remapped but before doing that I would like to know if there are any adverse implications or legal issues involved. I'm not talking about voiding the warranty (no longer relevant anyway), increasing fuel consumption or even shortening the engine lifetime. I'm wondering about potential NCT issues, insurance, road tax and the ability to have it serviced. Any advice is much appreciated. Cheers!
Del2005 wrote: » I've a 300+ bhp car and my insurance is wayy higher than if I had a 100 bhp car. Go to your insurance company and get a quote for a 90bhp car and then for its 130bhp model sibling, the quote will be higher for the more powerful car. So by remapping a car to higher power you will definitely be increasing the insurance risk so you should be paying the appropriate amount.
rex-x wrote: » I still have the letter somewhere, they declined to continue with the previous 6+ year premiums. They are not allowed to do this technically but if I were to change car etc they would have an out. I have a question for you though: As a person with a modified car, what would you do? No company is offering insurance within Ireland (even as a favour) So the current situation is insurance is only obtainable by non disclosure. If found out insurance will only be obtainable by non disclosure so there is zero net loss here, uninsurable vs uninsurable. And the appeals board don't deal with modifications so that route is out.
amf78 wrote: » Agreed but "apropriate" is the key word here. I doubt anybody would find a flat out refusal or 100% premium increase appropriate, when the power goes up by 10-15%. Well, anybody except those in the insurance business maybe. If the vast majority of people consume white bread, and those wanting brown bread couldn't get it, or would have to pay 10 times the price in order to get it, again I doubt many would be ok with it. And consuming bread (white or brown) in not even mandated by law.
Henry Ford III wrote: » I don't have a modified car. I'm told that cover can be obtained for some of them however, at a price. In the example you mention the options would appear to be:- 1/. Return the car to standard. 2/. Buy a more powerful car in standard tune. 3/. Find an insurer who will cover the modified car. The thing is though that deliberate non disclosure makes cover fundamentally unsound. It's also an criminal offence. Get caught and you'll be in big trouble. No insurer will touch you.
rex-x wrote: » Mods can be insured but not if they increase performance, at any cost! Unfortunately that ended about 3 years ago when it was less of an issue. Why should anyone have their car enjoyment dictated by an insurance company? it makes no sense, cover should be easily obtainable albeit at a slightly increased rate. Find me an example of someone punished criminally for non disclosure? It simply doesn't happen. The only place is can hurt you is within the insurance "world". Id say 30-50% of premiums (based on people I know old and young) in Ireland have some form of non disclosure brought on by the ridiculous restrictions.
