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Dublin North Quays - now double bus lane

wait4me

A shock this morning. New road lineage from Ormond Quay to Batchelors Walk creates a double bus lane and one single traffic lane. This will cause mayhem when traffic comes back after summer holidays!

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[Deleted User]

LXFlyer wrote: »

The double bus lane only starts after Jervis St

Go and look at the map drawings linked to in the post I linked to above and you will clearly see what is happening.

Traffic along the north quays is inbound only, I cycle down there in the morning and the double bus lane starts before Jervis St.

I know this because I turn right at Capel St onto Parliament St. The double bus lane is in place already when I turn. I don't ever reach Jervis St.

LXFlyer

Interested Observer wrote: »

Traffic along the north quays is inbound only, I cycle down there in the morning and the double bus lane starts before Jervis St.

I know this because I turn right at Capel St onto Parliament St. The double bus lane is in place already when I turn. I don't ever reach Jervis St.

I know it is inbound only.

Did you even bother to look at the drawings that I linked to?

There is a massive yellow box on Ormond Quay Upper before Capel St bridge to allow the buses move out into the middle lane and for cars to move to the inner lane.

At that point cars heading for Jervis St will move into the inside lane.

It may *look* like a double bus lane but it isn't. The inside lane only becomes a bus lane after Jervis St.

They may not have changed the road markings yet which may explain your confusion.

PLEASE go and look at the drawings that I linked to above.

I'm getting a bit fed up having to constantly explain this.

LXFlyer

For the avoidance of doubt:

Look at the maps on pages 12-14 of this document:
https://consultation.dublincity.ie/traffic-and-transport/traffic-management-changes-north-and-south-quays/supporting_documents/Traffic%20Management%20changes%20North%20and%20South%20Quays.pdf

They are the original plans. You can clearly see what is happening on Upper Ormond Quay.

The only changes to the plans are contained in this document:
https://www.dublincity.ie/councilmeetings/documents/s10695/North%20and%20South%20Quays%20Traffic%20Management%20measures%20-%20report%20on%20non-statutory%20consultation.pdf

Refer to the maps immediately before the appendix of the second document above to see the final changes on Bachelor's Walk and Eden Quay.

[Deleted User]

LXFlyer wrote: »

It may *look* like a double bus lane but it isn't. The inside lane only becomes a bus lane after Jervis St.

They may not have changed the road markings yet which may explain your confusion.

Might be it alright. I definitely saw both lanes with bus markings on them but I guess then they just haven't updated that yet.

Roadhawk

So what is the general feeling on private motorists being sent on longer journeys around the city to reach their destination. Over the last few years there have been massive restrictions applied to private motorist through the form of legislation, special speed limits, new road layouts and design (not to mention the costs). Is the overall plan to create a car free city?

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/major-restrictions-on-traffic-in-dublin-come-into-force-on-sunday-36029752.html

According to google maps (link below) getting from Bachelors Walk to fleet street car park for example will now add an extra 1.8km or roughly 11mins to your journey...roughly the same time it takes to get from the M50 to Naas!

Bachelors Walk to Fleet St Car Park:
https://www.google.ie/maps/dir/53.3474492,-6.2599409/53.3456742,-6.2606144/@53.3465262,-6.2601141,15.96z/data=!4m14!4m13!1m10!3m4!1m2!1d-6.2549491!2d53.3485254!3s0x48670e8f7ffe5cb5:0x6854b8076f599121!3m4!1m2!1d-6.2526458!2d53.3474256!3s0x48670e8fbe28f1c9:0x8c1b3b9704c87725!1m0!3e0

pclive

These changes are great news for those who use public transport
journey times for me along the north quays have dropped already

At the peak morning time of 8am to 9am, over 7,000 people travel along the north quays on buses. This compares to round 500 cars and the same number of cyclists

Who do you think should get priority?

magicbastarder

Roadhawk wrote: »

According to google maps (link below) getting from Bachelors Walk to fleet street car park for example will now add an extra 1.8km or roughly 11mins to your journey...roughly the same time it takes to get from the M50 to Naas!

Bachelors Walk to Fleet St Car Park:
https://www.google.ie/maps/dir/53.3474492,-6.2599409/53.3456742,-6.2606144/@53.3465262,-6.2601141,15.96z/data=!4m14!4m13!1m10!3m4!1m2!1d-6.2549491!2d53.3485254!3s0x48670e8f7ffe5cb5:0x6854b8076f599121!3m4!1m2!1d-6.2526458!2d53.3474256!3s0x48670e8fbe28f1c9:0x8c1b3b9704c87725!1m0!3e0

or - using google maps - you could save a minute by parking in arnotts and walking to fleet street. 2 minutes driving, 8 minutes walking.

LXFlyer

Interested Observer wrote: »

Might be it alright. I definitely saw both lanes with bus markings on them but I guess then they just haven't updated that yet.

That is precisely what has happened.

It's a work in progress.

The plans show the final road layout.

schemingbohemia

Can't find link but of the 500 private cars that use the quays only 150 of these tend to turn right onto O'Connell bridge. It's obviously vitally important to the vibrancy and freedom to move within the city that these 150 (or 180 if you include possible passengers) determine how the other 130,000 that use sustainable measures travel around the city. They are the real victims here #justice for the 150!

Roadhawk

magicbastarder wrote: »

or - using google maps - you could save a minute by parking in arnotts and walking to fleet street. 2 minutes driving, 8 minutes walking.

So the real question is, why have a car park at fleet street at all? You see its a convenience factor.

Roadhawk

schemingbohemia wrote: »

Can't find link but of the 500 private cars that use the quays only 150 of these tend to turn right onto O'Connell bridge. It's obviously vitally important to the vibrancy and freedom to move within the city that these 150 (or 180 if you include possible passengers) determine how the other 130,000 that use sustainable measures travel around the city. They are the real victims here #justice for the 150!

So thats the type of thing I wanted to see. I hadn't seen any stats on the exact number of cars vs bus that use this turn. Whenever i use it im sure to see at least one bus but its always flooded with cars. Is it really only 150 cars that use this turn? seems quite low?

InTheTrees

What are the rules on disabled drivers access? Can disabled drivers follow the same rules as busses?

Roadhawk

pclive wrote: »

These changes are great news for those who use public transport
journey times for me along the north quays have dropped already

Well from 20th August your journey time should drop further. However, those who drive will have longer journey times. For example, for a Gard working in Pearse St. and living in Castleknock the quickest route was through the Phoenix Park, down the quays, right over O'Connell bridge and park up on Hawkins/Townsend St. Now they will have to travel half way around the city to get to the same location.

pclive wrote: »

At the peak morning time of 8am to 9am, over 7,000 people travel along the north quays on buses. This compares to round 500 cars and the same number of cyclists

Who do you think should get priority?

Ive seen the vehicle count stats. Clearly buses carry a majority people entering the city by road and dont they already have a priority on most roads with bus lanes and contra-flows? I see in the plans to ban cars from turning right off bachelors walk, there is also a priority bus signal before the turn to optimise efficiency. These signals would be a great addition to most junctions.

Roadhawk

InTheTrees wrote: »

What are the rules on disabled drivers access? Can disabled drivers follow the same rules as busses?

No they would have to abide by the same rules of the road as any other private motorist.

[Deleted User]

Roadhawk wrote: »

Well from 20th August your journey time should drop further. However, those who drive will have longer journey times. For example, for a Gard working in Pearse St. and living in Castleknock the quickest route was through the Phoenix Park, down the quays, right over O'Connell bridge and park up on Hawkins/Townsend St. Now they will have to travel half way around the city to get to the same location.

Is there any need to drive from Castleknock to Pearse St? Get the bus, get the train.

bigar

Car restrictions can only be considered good news. This will make the city more livable for people actually living there and more pleasant for any visitor as they do not need to be pushed onto narrow footpaths.

I am looking forward to car free quays from Four Courts to Custom House on both sides. This includes Taxis by the way.

Roadhawk

Interested Observer wrote: »

Is there any need to drive from Castleknock to Pearse St? Get the bus, get the train.

My example mentions a Gard who would be on a shift rota including nights when public transport is not an option. I know you can please everyone, im just using a random example. Im sure there are more like it.

[Deleted User]

Roadhawk wrote: »

My example mentions a Gard who would be on a shift rota including nights when public transport is not an option. I know you can please everyone, im just using a random example. Im sure there are more like it.

Then they'll fly through the city as there'll be little to no traffic and many bus lanes won't be in operation. That example is a non-issue imo.

Roadhawk wrote: »

My example mentions a Gard who would be on a shift rota including nights when public transport is not an option. I know you can please everyone, im just using a random example. Im sure there are more like it.

Ideally we should have 24/7 buses and Dart/Luas should run later. Dublin is easily big enough for this now and it has been rumoured to be coming soon for the last year or so.

Roadhawk

bk wrote: »

Ideally we should have 24/7 buses and Dart/Luas should run later. Dublin is easily big enough for this now and it has been rumoured to be coming soon for the last year or so.

This would be great to see.

devnull

Roadhawk wrote: »

This would be great to see.

Unfortuantely there are a few obstacles to overcome in order to deal with that:
http://dublinbusdrivers.com/Post_2330_Departures.html

magicbastarder

by the looks of that website though, that statement must have been released 15 years ago.

patrickbrophy18

monument wrote: »

All mild and most just a shot of realty -- not worth your grandstanding.

And I can see why you opted for grandstanding -- your direct replies don't add up to much of a debunk of what was said.

A lot of the posts I was replying to are "Father Ted" like shot's of reality. Some of them come across as simple-minded, childish and brudgery driven given that they are clearly reveling at the inconvenience being caused to motorists.

Also, that comment there of "not worth your grandstanding" comes across as an attack the poster type response. However, I won't report it as I amn't a coward. I know we've never seen eye-to-eye on matters such as this.

monument wrote: »

Most of the current holiday goers will be going back to buses, trams, and bicycles -- but very nice try to imply the good working people are all motorists.

It wasn't me who implied it. I was just replying to a comment that did. May I remind you that I only came in on the chat after 11 pages. The below post was one of the first ones in the thread:

markpb wrote: »

The traffic coming back after the summer holidays will cause mayhem all by itself

monument wrote: »

You know in more half the location along the quays bicycles outnumber cars at peak times?

I wasn't talking about bicycles was I?

Or are you trying to stir-up your misunderstanding that I am anti-cyclist?

monument wrote: »

The person's work commute isn't the reason for using the quays. Tons of gyms close to the person's work place.

Currently, the quays forms or is part of a more direct route to work for some people. That's a fairly valid reason. So, yes, they will be rightly irritated by the prospect that their journey is going to be made more awkward. Finally, since when is a persons choice of gym location anyone else's business?

A better way to do this would be (at the very least) to find out where people are driving from with a view to identifying gaps in the transport network. Then, use this information to introduce new bus routes to soften the blow of inconvenience. However, this very crucial step in the process is not registering with people on this thread.

monument wrote: »

Nothing, just:

-- a new more direct rail service with extra capacity and connectivity

-- a new tram extension adding to connectivity and capacity

-- new buses across the bus network

Millions in investment in Luas, the tunnel service and new buses but to you it's nothing?

Well, given that other cities in the developed world (with similar populations I might add) are doing many times the above, I would certainly consider them the bare minimum requirements.

monument wrote: »

What do you want Dart and Metro to displace well under 800 people per hour? ...800 is the estimate of number of people in around 500 cars per hour on the quays.

Did I say DART or Metro? No!
You're really trying to put words in my mouth that aren't really there.

I said that new bus routes could be introduced to accommodate the aforementioned 800 people. This is something that could be done overnight by a public or private organization if it wasn't for the bureaucratic process of applying for bus licenses.

So, in an ideal world, instead of inconveniencing them with forced diversions and very likely lengthened journeys, the new routes would capitalize on the new bus lane.

monument wrote: »

Is that a joke? Do you ever be in the city centre at rush hour? The share volume of traffic is the problem and a result of it is usually inevitably low-level law breaking.

You may have misunderstood me when you wrote this response. Whether or not that was intentional is another matter. Anyway, I was saying that motorists who occupy space dedicated to another class of road user are incredibly inconsiderate in this precise example. That includes parking on cycle lanes, driving in bus lanes, blocking trams etc.

Other than that, if people are driving around in the city in a safe, law-abiding manner, there is nothing inconsiderate about that. This goes for all other classes of road users.

What exactly do you mean by low-level law breaking?

monument wrote: »

Let's get this right -- it's "incredibly inconsiderate" to make priority and space for the tens of thousands of people who will be using the current and newly diverted buses on the quays plus Luas Cross City and millions in public transport investment is "all take and no give".

Right...

You see, in this country when we come up with schemes, they are often half baked. For example, the plaza on College Green is all very well. Yet, we still haven't implemented Metro North or DART Underground. So, it's a case of inconvenience motorists without a solution or attractive alternative. I guess what I am saying is that once you have a more inclusive contingency plan in place, only then, are you in a position to inconvenience people.

Perhaps, use of the phrase "incredibly inconsiderate" was a tad emotive.

monument

Threads merged.

markpb

You quoted me but you seem to be reading some deep meaning into my post that isn't actually there. The OP said that the new bus lane would cause traffic chaos in September. I merely pointed out that there will be traffic chaos regardless, it's the same every year. There's no motorist hatred or childish schadenfreude going on there, it's just a statement of fact.

If it helps put your conspiracy theories to bed, I'm very definitely a motorist these days. I've transcended from the 20-40km a day cyclist (but without the Lycra) to a daddy chauffeur service (but without the suv) with an environment- hating 2.0l 163bhp diesel. Despite that, I still firmly support these measures. I'd love to see both metro north and DU proceed at full pace but I don't believe we should do nothing in the meantime.

hmmm

patrickbrophy18 wrote: »

Finally, since when is a persons choice of gym location anyone else's business?

A better way to do this would be (at the very least) to find out where people are driving from with a view to identifying gaps in the transport network. Then, use this information to introduce new bus routes to soften the blow of inconvenience. However, this very crucial step in the process is not registering with people on this thread.

Sorry, we are unable to provide buses directly to this persons gym. As a taxpayer I don't want to see traffic planners spend time trying to provide a personalised commuting experience for the small minority of drivers who will be inconvenienced, we have only so much money and time to spend on this.

Drivers should know by now that if their route involves travelling in a private car through the city centre it is not sustainable, and it's time to take a bit of personal responsibility and get on a bike, buy a motorbike or get on the bus with the greater unwashed.

whiskeygirl

Roadhawk wrote: »

Well from 20th August your journey time should drop further. However, those who drive will have longer journey times. For example, for a Gard working in Pearse St. and living in Castleknock the quickest route was through the Phoenix Park, down the quays, right over O'Connell bridge and park up on Hawkins/Townsend St. Now they will have to travel half way around the city to get to the same location.

Ive seen the vehicle count stats. Clearly buses carry a majority people entering the city by road and dont they already have a priority on most roads with bus lanes and contra-flows? I see in the plans to ban cars from turning right off bachelors walk, there is also a priority bus signal before the turn to optimise efficiency. These signals would be a great addition to most junctions.

My hoop they will! Any guard I know (including my brother based in city centre and commuting from kildare) will have no bother driving in bus lanes off duty. Any hassle from an unknown colleague, and a "I'm a member myself" and quick flash of the badge will suffice! though he tends to flash his badge onto the train most days now.

patrickbrophy18

markpb wrote: »

You quoted me but you seem to be reading some deep meaning into my post that isn't actually there. The OP said that the new bus lane would cause traffic chaos in September. I merely pointed out that there will be traffic chaos regardless, it's the same every year. There's no motorist hatred or childish schadenfreude going on there, it's just a statement of fact.

If it helps put your conspiracy theories to bed, I'm very definitely a motorist these days. I've transcended from the 20-40km a day cyclist (but without the Lycra) to a daddy chauffeur service (but without the suv) with an environment- hating 2.0l 163bhp diesel. Despite that, I still firmly support these measures. I'd love to see both metro north and DU proceed at full pace but I don't believe we should do nothing in the meantime.

I do tend to go off the rails from a conspiracy theorist perspective. I took you and others up the wrong way and I am sorry for that. Friends?

Generally speaking, I do want to see public transport in the city prevail. In fact, I want to see it rising like a phoenix from the ashes.

The last half century was marked by a dismantling of a once extensive tram and rail network. The bus network was also watered down over the years. Let's hope that Go Ahead and Bus Connects fill these gaps back in.

Basically, I would like to see a systematic, pattern based and evenly distributed bus network. Furthermore, it needs to operate swiftly and that is where moves such as the double bus lane along the quays come in.

A uniform approach to suburban infrastructure will be needed to allow this as funds throughout the various administrative counties permit.

punisher5112

Go ahead won't change anything....

Only reason go ahead is here is because all our services are being sold out.

The thing I find hilarious is how the nta adds there will be a 35% increase in services...

Now is that across the board and also don't be fooled go ahead will be getting a 35% or more increase to supposedly provide these services.

Its extremely worrying how all they are interested in is selling everything.

Db have now been set up to fail... Yes they have ran things bad in the past but the so called nta was set up to run things so for the last few years they have called all the shots where if db wanted extra services added or pretty much anything they wouldn't be allowed to do so.

[Deleted User]

Roadhawk wrote: »

My example mentions a Gard who would be on a shift rota including nights when public transport is not an option. I know you can please everyone, im just using a random example. Im sure there are more like it.

Don't Garda shifts start and end in public transport hours?