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People who see the paranormal; mentally ill, hoaxters, or the 'placebo' effect?

jeanjolie

This is something I've been dying to ask. Unlike our American counterparts, it doesn't seem (thankfully) that we get people here who believe in the paranormal or see the paranormal in their house.

Even relatively religious people here that are Catholics and Muslims tend to stories of demonic entities, poltergeists, ghosts as people trying to look for YouTube views, people convincing themselves through the powerful human brain, or sadly people suffering from psychosis, schizophrenia.

Aren't those really the only logical ones? Science has failed to find evidence of psychic, curses, entities, other realms. It might seem absolutely, positively ignorant to claim that this is all there is, but at the same time we have to look at what unfounded beliefs do (homeopathy).

Is it time to start treating people who believe that the Ouija board has summoned granny through her tranny daughter?

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jacksie66

This post has been deleted.

ceadaoin.

These things have been recorded across all cultures for pretty much all of human existence so I think that there must be something in it. That's not to say that many so called psychics aren't charlatans or that some people's accounts could be a result of delusions,, but I don't think every experience can be written off as fraud or mental illness. There are many things that science hasn't discovered yet, I don't see the harm in keeping an open mind.

storker

Resist ZOG wrote: »

I'm not saying you have to believe in God, I just find it curious that a militant atheist (my ex) could be scared of a board game

I have a set of Tarot Cards too.

No, I don't believe they can foretell the future, I've just always liked the symbology. I blame the end credit sequence on Tales of the Unexpected...

Resist ZOG

storker wrote: »

I didn't say I accept it, I just said I don't think it's worth taking the chance. In any case, as I explained, a ghost going around clanking its chains requires a much smaller leap of faith than an all-wise all-knowing eternal supreme being. To me it would make a lot more sense to turn that question on its head and ask a believer, "What, you believe in an eternal all powerful god, but not a simple ghost?" To me that attitude makes a lot less sense. If someone accepts god, then surely anything supernatural is on the table.

I'm not saying you have to believe in God, I just find it curious that a militant atheist (my ex) could be scared of a board game

storker

GerryDerpy wrote: »

I agree. But you are trying to logically explain how illogical people think.

Well I guess none of us is 100% logical. If I was, I'd go and get a Ouija board and use it just to prove it's all nonsense. But I won't.

GerryDerpy

storker wrote: »

I didn't say I accept it, I just said I don't think it's worth taking the chance. In any case, as I explained, a ghost going around clanking its chains requires a much smaller leap of faith than an all-wise all-knowing eternal supreme being. To me it would make a lot more sense to turn that question on its head and ask a believer, "What, you believe in an eternal all powerful god, but not a simple ghost?" To me that attitude makes a lot less sense. If someone accepts god, then surely anything supernatural is on the table.

I agree. But you are trying to logically explain how illogical people think.

storker

Resist ZOG wrote: »

I find this attitude strange. If you deny the possibility of God, heaven, afterlife etc how can you possibly be afraid of a what is basically a board game?

My ex claimed she had a bad experience with a oujia board. I don't see how you can deny one aspect of the paranormal but accept another.

I didn't say I accept it, I just said I don't think it's worth taking the chance. In any case, as I explained, a ghost going around clanking its chains requires a much smaller leap of faith than an all-wise all-knowing eternal supreme being. To me it would make a lot more sense to turn that question on its head and ask a believer, "What, you believe in an eternal all powerful god, but not a simple ghost?" To me that attitude makes a lot less sense. If someone accepts god, then surely anything supernatural is on the table.

GerryDerpy

pone2012 wrote: »

Que war between those who cannot provide evidence for/against in 3...2..1

Fwiw I like to keep an open mind

https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2016/07/01/as-a-psychiatrist-i-diagnose-mental-illness-and-sometimes-demonic-possession/

The credentials of the author intrigued me. His lack of evidence disappointed.

Resist ZOG

storker wrote: »

I'm an atheist who wouldn't mess with a Ouija board either. No, I've no rational reason for it except that just because I don't believe in an all-powerful creator doesn't mean I don't believe there might be...things. It doesn't mean I believe there are either, of course, and I know that a factory-made Ouija can't have any magical power in itself. At the say time, there is a little voice inside me that would be saying "...leave it the fcuk alone...".

Stephen King summed it up best, I think, in his introduction to Night Shift, mentioning that when in bed he never leaves his feet sticking out of the covers over the edge, be cause he is terrified of the idea of his ankle being grabbed by something hiding under the bed....“The thing under my bed waiting to grab my ankle isn't real. I know that, and I also know that if I'm careful to keep my foot under the covers, it will never be able to grab my ankle.”

I find this attitude strange. If you deny the possibility of God, heaven, afterlife etc how can you possibly be afraid of a what is basically a board game?

My ex claimed she had a bad experience with a oujia board. I don't see how you can deny one aspect of the paranormal but accept another.

storker

ceadaoin. wrote: »

I can't help but think of this every time he is mentioned. Mary loves dick hehe

https://youtu.be/I8H_v8cM9CQ

What a fraud. He didn't even get Mary's phone number.

storker

The_Valeyard wrote: »

There was an Atheist radio presenter on Newstalk or RTE1 last week. Cant remember her name, she is an out and out atheist. But completely believes in ghosts because of an encounter she had in a hotel a few years ago.

I've heard comments by some religious people along the lines of "how you not believe in god and say there might be ghosts?" Or sometimes it's aliens on other planets.

OK, the aliens analogy is just stupid, but to look at the ghost=god claim, one is some remnant of a person who really existed and apart from being a dead person who is occasionally visible, has little else by way of magical powers. On the other hand we have a supreme being who was here before everything, made everything, knows everything and can do anything, and whose only weakness seems to be a chronic cashflow problem.

I know which of those I find more far-fetched...

ceadaoin.

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Derek Acorah.

I can't help but think of this every time he is mentioned. Mary loves dick hehe

https://youtu.be/I8H_v8cM9CQ

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

I ask the San same out constant thread starters

Jim Bob Scratcher

You should have a read through this thread OP.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=82221659

They can't all be crazy :pac:

The_Valeyard

There was an Atheist radio presenter on Newstalk or RTE1 last week. Cant remember her name, she is an out and out atheist. But completely believes in ghosts because of an encounter she had in a hotel a few years ago.

storker

Resist ZOG wrote: »

I also had a girlfriend who was an avowed atheist but was afraid of oujia boards. I found that interesting.

I'm an atheist who wouldn't mess with a Ouija board either. No, I've no rational reason for it except that just because I don't believe in an all-powerful creator doesn't mean I don't believe there might be...things. It doesn't mean I believe there are either, of course, and I know that a factory-made Ouija can't have any magical power in itself. At the say time, there is a little voice inside me that would be saying "...leave it the fcuk alone...".

Stephen King summed it up best, I think, in his introduction to Night Shift, mentioning that when in bed he never leaves his feet sticking out of the covers over the edge, be cause he is terrified of the idea of his ankle being grabbed by something hiding under the bed....“The thing under my bed waiting to grab my ankle isn't real. I know that, and I also know that if I'm careful to keep my foot under the covers, it will never be able to grab my ankle.”

railer201

Candie wrote: »

I'm imagine most people who think that Granddad is trying to tell them where his good underpants are hidden through the medium of fridge magnets are either frauds, delusional, gullible, credulous, desperate, bereaved, I'm-spiritual-and-special types, fragile, or just plain old stupid.

Also, less of the tranny stuff would be nice, as would amateur diagnoses.

Candie wrote: »

Rather convenient?

'Take my word for it, these things exist. Just don't ask for any evidence. No photos, no films, no evidence or proof at all exists. Just the word of a stranger. Oh, and if that's not good enough, you're closed-minded'.

I don't get a sense of an open mind from your post above. Ghosts or other paranormal experiences such as poltergeist really have to be experienced first and then perhaps the discussion can begin. It's not entirely subjective either as there can be witnesses to any particular event.

jigglypuffstuff

Que war between those who cannot provide evidence for/against in 3...2..1

Fwiw I like to keep an open mind

https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2016/07/01/as-a-psychiatrist-i-diagnose-mental-illness-and-sometimes-demonic-possession/

NIMAN

Nettle Soup wrote: »

Can transubstantiation at mass be considered "paranormal"? Catholics witness that every week.

No they don't.

Resist ZOG

jeanjolie wrote: »

This is something I've been dying to ask. Unlike our American counterparts, it doesn't seem (thankfully) that we get people here who believe in the paranormal or see the paranormal in their house.

Even relatively religious people here that are Catholics and Muslims tend to stories of demonic entities, poltergeists, ghosts as people trying to look for YouTube views, people convincing themselves through the powerful human brain, or sadly people suffering from psychosis, schizophrenia.

Aren't those really the only logical ones? Science has failed to find evidence of psychic, curses, entities, other realms. It might seem absolutely, positively ignorant to claim that this is all there is, but at the same time we have to look at what unfounded beliefs do (homeopathy).

Is it time to start treating people who believe that the Ouija board has summoned granny through her tranny daughter?

The tranny line made me laugh.

I had an experience that could well be described as a paranormal.

I also had a girlfriend who was an avowed atheist but was afraid of oujia boards. I found that interesting.

Effects

Nettle Soup wrote: »

Can transubstantiation at mass be considered "paranormal"? Catholics witness that every week.

Yeah, it's called haunted bread. There was complaints about it to the broadcasting authority recently. None were held up.

[Deleted User]

railer201 wrote: »

Unfortunately, ghosts can't be captured and put in a specimen jar to convince unbelievers.

Rather convenient?

'Take my word for it, these things exist. Just don't ask for any evidence. No photos, no films, no evidence or proof at all exists. Just the word of a stranger. Oh, and if that's not good enough, you're closed-minded'.

ohnonotgmail

Derek Acorah.

railer201

jeanjolie wrote: »

This is something I've been dying to ask. Unlike our American counterparts, it doesn't seem (thankfully) that we get people here who believe in the paranormal or see the paranormal in their house.

Even relatively religious people here that are Catholics and Muslims tend to stories of demonic entities, poltergeists, ghosts as people trying to look for YouTube views, people convincing themselves through the powerful human brain, or sadly people suffering from psychosis, schizophrenia.

Aren't those really the only logical ones? Science has failed to find evidence of psychic, curses, entities, other realms. It might seem absolutely, positively ignorant to claim that this is all there is, but at the same time we have to look at what unfounded beliefs do (homeopathy).

Is it time to start treating people who believe that the Ouija board has summoned granny through her tranny daughter?

Just because you personally have never had a paranormal experience, doesn't mean that the paranormal doesn't exist. We do get people here in Ireland who have paranormal experiences, whether they want to wrestle with closed minds on the subject is another matter. Unfortunately, ghosts can't be captured and put in a specimen jar to convince unbelievers.

Donald Trump

Placebo effect?

They did do a fairly cool cover of this song

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-mYX0qKkB8

[Deleted User]

What was the point of the tranny line at the end?

Nettle Soup

Can transubstantiation at mass be considered "paranormal"? Catholics witness that every week.

NIMAN

Would you say the same thing about people who believe in (a) God?

Agree with you by the way OP. I have zero belief in this either......and you can add aliens too.

Nettle Soup

Victor wrote: »

People could also be mistaken, misled or just not well educated. Look at how long it takes kids to work out Santa.

Then there's people who are intoxicated.

Imagine you are out in the middle of nowhere, in the middle of the night with nobody around and you hear screaming. What conclusion do you come to? Banshee?
Or, if you are in the know, a fox?

Badgers can also making a screeching sound when they are fighting at night. Sounds freaky.

Syphonax

Victor wrote: »

People could also be mistaken, misled or just not well educated. Look at how long it takes kids to work out Santa.

Then there's people who are intoxicated.

Imagine you are out in the middle of nowhere, in the middle of the night with nobody around and you hear screaming. What conclusion do you come to? Banshee?
Or, if you are in the know, a fox?

What about Santa