everlast75 wrote: » It's not what you say, it's the way that you say it...
Whelo79 wrote: » At least you didn't refute the 'high and mighty, arrogant all knowing boxing expert and MMA dismisser' part of my comment.
wonderfullife wrote: » Agree with both of you but the biggest problem I have with the likes of Robert Garcia is that they speak so dismissively of MMA when it's clear they haven't watched an MMA fight in their life. If people watch both sports and have seen all of Conor's fights and still give him next-to-no-chance, they're at least giving an informed opinion and you can only respect that opinion. Whereas the likes of Robert Garcia, Jim Lampley, Jim Gray, Steve Bunce etc have clearly never watched an MMA fight in their life but they still dismiss anyone from the sport - until, like Garcia, they get up close with a fairly elite striker and realise the disparity isn't as wide as they thought. Luke Thomas was saying something similar yesterday. He feels that a lot of boxing pundits and boxing fans view MMA as if it's still 2002 in terms of the striking, skills and athleticism of MMA fighters. I know for a while we had the debate on here whether this fight represented MMA v Boxing but the truth is Conor himself has made this about MMA v boxing. He's proud to represent MMA and the UFC and sees this as an opportunity to show people what mixed martial artists are capable of.
Outlaw Pete wrote: » This is the kind of shot I see McGregor troubling Mayweather with (and Maidana only had a 69" reach too - McGregor's is 74): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sz3YjOoAKBk
everlast75 wrote: » Being as impartial as possible and trying to come at this fight from a different angle... Do you think there is any little doubt in Floyd's head about succeeding in this fight. I get that he believes (and with good cause) that he is the GOAT, but what makes this different? What could cause that spec of doubt... * in reality Conor has absolutely nothing to lose unlike any other boxer he has faced * a loss to him would be an complete embarrassment on his otherwise impeccable career and to the sport as a whole * Conor knows he won't win on points so he will be going to knock Floyd the f out * Conor won't care about getting points docked so he can bully or clinch and use any dirty tactic possible * Conor is considerably younger * Conor is coming from a more brutal arena where they use less padding on gloves * Conor will not be using conventional boxing techniques which Floyd will be used to countering * Floyd's hands are as bad as they ever were * Floyd hasn't fought in over 2 years Now, I know that still Floyd has a 99% chance of winning this in my mind, but is it the same in his?
Gintonious wrote: » His reach wasn't the deciding factor in that exchange, it was his footwork.
Outlaw Pete wrote: » His footwork was part of it, obviously............. but with a longer reach McGregor will find it easier to land should he find himself in (/ put himself in) a similar position............... is the point.
walshb wrote: » I'd say he has been watching Conor move and thinks this will be the easiest payday of his career.
everlast75 wrote: » He's been watching what Conor wants him to watch... I sincerely hope Floyd does think it will be the easiest payday. Complacency will be great for Conor
wonderfullife wrote: » Conor himself has made this about MMA v boxing. He's proud to represent MMA and the UFC and sees this as an opportunity to show people what mixed martial artists are capable of.
everlast75 wrote: » * in reality Conor has absolutely nothing to lose unlike any other boxer he has faced * a loss to him would be an complete embarrassment on his otherwise impeccable career and to the sport as a whole * Conor knows he won't win on points so he will be going to knock Floyd the f out * Conor won't care about getting points docked so he can bully or clinch and use any dirty tactic possible * Conor is considerably younger * Conor is coming from a more brutal arena where they use less padding on gloves * Conor will not be using conventional boxing techniques which Floyd will be used to countering * Floyd's hands are as bad as they ever were * Floyd hasn't fought in over 2 years
Ultimate Seduction wrote: » I can see why the boxing guys hate this fight, much like mma hated CM Punk.
walshb wrote: » Easier to land compared to the career pro, Guerrero?
Deleted User wrote: » I think in fairness MMA striking is still mostly muck. We have guys on UFC main cards in 2017 with no footwork, throwing wild looping shots and running at their opponent hands-down to close distance. The average level today isn't that far evolved from the old days of fat bar brawlers.
Gintonious wrote: » For me at least its never been about MMA vs Boxing, although i can see that angle being created to help sell the fight.
everlast75 wrote: » Do you think there is any little doubt in Floyd's head about succeeding in this fight.
walshb wrote: » He has nothing on offense that will trouble Floyd. Unless we keep going back to this KO chance?
EagererBeaver wrote: » Him doing well or reasonably well against Mayweather would say precisely nothing about the sport of MMA, only about how incredible he is as an individual. If he performs well, nobody is going to start sitting up and thinking "Jesus, let's match Garbrandt against Lomachenko or AJ vs Miocic because the disparity in boxing ability between the two sports isn't all that big."
Outlaw Pete wrote: » Never mentioned Guerrero.
wonderfullife wrote: » Well, go tell that to Dana White. They hardly registered Zuffa Boxing as a subsidiary/extension of the UFC for the craic. If Conor wins, we're highly likely to see more of these crossovers in the future. As for what it says about MMA vs Boxing - in the minds of the general public this is *all* about MMA vs Boxing. It's about which sport has the better fighters. It will do wonders to the popularity of MMA and the UFC if Conor wins and will 100% be a bitter pill for boxing to swallow.
walshb wrote: » So, can you explain if Conor is in that position he finds it easier to land? Easier to land than whom, exactly?
Outlaw Pete wrote: » Fighters with a shorter reach.
wonderfullife wrote: » MMA striking isn't just punching. The evolution from the days of Don Frye to now is massive. Cain Velasquez spinning back-kicked Travis Browne in the head at UFC 200. That sums up the evolution pretty neatly in one movement. As for the technical striking with the hands, the biggest problem with MMA fighters is they lack a solid jab but there's pretty good reasons why fighting behind a solid jab in MMA isn't always a good idea. Honestly I couldn't disagree more. I think the overall level of striking in MMA is worlds apart from the old-school era. A lot of people would agree with you, it's been Conor himself pushing the MMA vs Boxing angle lately, saying he's doing this for the sport. He said Floyd came on his radar when he spoke so dismissively about the sport of MMA and he was determined to one day fight him and make him pay for it. Good post, just cut it short to reply: The biggest difference between Conor and every other opponent of Floyd's is something that Luke Thomas, Dan Hardy and Brad Pickett illustrated very well. To use Brad's words: "If they were fighting over a pig on the street, Conor would be the one eating a ham sandwich". For decades, boxers were the toughest guys in every village, town and city and when MMA came along that slowly changed. Nowadays, people view Mixed Martial Artists as the real toughest guys.This will be Floyd's first opponent where he walks into a room with them and knows he isn't the toughest guy. It'll be his first opponent where if he walked up a dark alley without his bodyguards, and neither had weapons, Conor would kill him. People say "well that means nothing because it's a boxing match under boxing rules" and they're right but they're also wrong in the sense it's not meaningless. It's the first time for Floyd to have to fight someone when he's not the 'tough guy' in the equation and the psychologist David Mullins said that will have some 'effect', positive or negative, on Floyd. Granted, Mullins works with SBG, but he said it from a psychology point of view. Granted we only got 10 seconds but when Joe Cortez separated them, Conor dropped into an almost identical MMA stance. I see TheWeasle on youtube did a good analysis of it. Conor adopted his usual wide stance and, more importantly, his usual kicking range. Part of the reason that left-hand down the pipe landed so cleanly on Paulie was because it was thrown from a distance Paulie is not used to seeing punches coming from. Conor's feet aren't even in the camera shot from the distance he throws the punch from. Boxers are simply not used to shots coming from so far back and Conor closes distance very impressively. The argument that Floyd will see it coming a mile-off and slip isn't as easy as it sounds. The downside of having 36 years boxing experience is you've seen shots coming at you from the same distance for 36 years and your fluid reactions are based off that distance. Floyd looks like Neo in the Matrix at times slipping shots but that's not *just* reflexes - it's also years of repetition and muscle memory of slipping shots thrown in a certain way. I think Conor is going to land cleanly and often in the early rounds, certainly winning 2 maybe 3 of the first 4 rounds. Floyd might adjust to it but he might be KO'd before he gets the chance. We'll see. Well, go tell that to Dana White. They hardly registered Zuffa Boxing as a subsidiary/extension of the UFC for the craic. If Conor wins, we're highly likely to see more of these crossovers in the future. As for what it says about MMA vs Boxing - in the minds of the general public this is *all* about MMA vs Boxing. It's about which sport has the better fighters. It will do wonders to the popularity of MMA and the UFC if Conor wins and will 100% be a bitter pill for boxing to swallow.
walshb wrote: » As I thought.... Basing it all on two words, 'longer' and 'shorter'.. No real clue it seems on anything else that could be a factor: like feet, positioning, punch delivery, shot selection, speed of punch, hips, reaction time, shoulders etc....
"....if Conor is in that position......."
Outlaw Pete wrote: » What the hell are you on about? You said: So why are you talking about feet position, shot selection, hips, shoulder position etc? You can certainly make an argument that his reach advantage might be negated by his inferior speed of punch and delivery, but that would be all..... and I'm not even sure how you would be able to make a sufficient one given that we're taking about 5 inches that McGregor has on Maidana with regards to reach. Also worth bearing in mind that reach isn't just arm length, it also incorporates shoulder width and so it should help McGregor with regards to his defense too, especially when defending in a sideways position. Something we haven't really see him do but then we've seen very little footage of him sparring as so we don't really know but it's for sure something he should use to his advantage.As a result I think the majority of Mayweather's shots on McGregor will be body shots.
Outlaw Pete wrote: » As a result I think the majority of Mayweather's shots on McGregor will be body shots.
wonderfullife wrote: » MMA striking isn't just punching. The evolution from the days of Don Frye to now is massive. Cain Velasquez spinning back-kicked Travis Browne in the head at UFC 200. That sums up the evolution pretty neatly in one movement. As for the technical striking with the hands, the biggest problem with MMA fighters is they lack a solid jab but there's pretty good reasons why fighting behind a solid jab in MMA isn't always a good idea. Honestly I couldn't disagree more. I think the overall level of striking in MMA is worlds apart from the old-school era. A lot of people would agree with you, it's been Conor himself pushing the MMA vs Boxing angle lately, saying he's doing this for the sport. He said Floyd came on his radar when he spoke so dismissively about the sport of MMA and he was determined to one day fight him and make him pay for it. Good post, just cut it short to reply: The biggest difference between Conor and every other opponent of Floyd's is something that Luke Thomas, Dan Hardy and Brad Pickett illustrated very well. To use Brad's words: "If they were fighting over a pig on the street, Conor would be the one eating a ham sandwich". For decades, boxers were the toughest guys in every village, town and city and when MMA came along that slowly changed. Nowadays, people view Mixed Martial Artists as the real toughest guys. This will be Floyd's first opponent where he walks into a room with them and knows he isn't the toughest guy. It'll be his first opponent where if he walked up a dark alley without his bodyguards, and neither had weapons, Conor would kill him. People say "well that means nothing because it's a boxing match under boxing rules" and they're right but they're also wrong in the sense it's not meaningless. It's the first time for Floyd to have to fight someone when he's not the 'tough guy' in the equation and the psychologist David Mullins said that will have some 'effect', positive or negative, on Floyd. Granted, Mullins works with SBG, but he said it from a psychology point of view. Granted we only got 10 seconds but when Joe Cortez separated them, Conor dropped into an almost identical MMA stance. I see TheWeasle on youtube did a good analysis of it. Conor adopted his usual wide stance and, more importantly, his usual kicking range. Part of the reason that left-hand down the pipe landed so cleanly on Paulie was because it was thrown from a distance Paulie is not used to seeing punches coming from. Conor's feet aren't even in the camera shot from the distance he throws the punch from. Boxers are simply not used to shots coming from so far back and Conor closes distance very impressively. The argument that Floyd will see it coming a mile-off and slip isn't as easy as it sounds. The downside of having 36 years boxing experience is you've seen shots coming at you from the same distance for 36 years and your fluid reactions are based off that distance. Floyd looks like Neo in the Matrix at times slipping shots but that's not *just* reflexes - it's also years of repetition and muscle memory of slipping shots thrown in a certain way. I think Conor is going to land cleanly and often in the early rounds, certainly winning 2 maybe 3 of the first 4 rounds. Floyd might adjust to it but he might be KO'd before he gets the chance. We'll see. Well, go tell that to Dana White. They hardly registered Zuffa Boxing as a subsidiary/extension of the UFC for the craic. If Conor wins, we're highly likely to see more of these crossovers in the future. As for what it says about MMA vs Boxing - in the minds of the general public this is *all* about MMA vs Boxing. It's about which sport has the better fighters. It will do wonders to the popularity of MMA and the UFC if Conor wins and will 100% be a bitter pill for boxing to swallow.
Gintonious wrote: » Really? Thats new to me. Thats a seriously misguided thing to say.
