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Forcing old people to be landlords

Kivaro

Apparently Eoghan Murphy (eoghan.murphy@oir.ie and finegael@finegael.ie) wants our elderly parents/neighbours to rent out their homes if they happen to be in a nursing home. If this is Fine Gael's solution to the housing problem, then we should be all worried.

I believe that Government's interference with property rights should be legally challenged if they pursue these unfair policies of picking on the most vulnerable in society. Fine Gael are also threatening other vacant home owners that there will be financial penalties imposed on them if they do not rent out their properties ........... on top of the property and other taxes that they are already paying. The Government also want to increase their compulsory purchase order powers in order to seize vacant properties around the country.

I heard on a radio show last week a statistic of approximately 50% of those on housing waiting lists are non-Irish. Housing and homelessness will continue to be an issue forever if the numbers coming into the country are not addressed.

Thinking about our parents working all their lives to keep a home over our heads only to end up being forced to be landlords at the end or their lives is bewildering.

This is a new low in politics.

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Mrs OBumble

They can just sell the house when they don't need it , surely?

The_Valeyard

I'm not sure this policy makes sense or has been properly thought out. Huge legal minefield.

[Deleted User]

No ones being forced! Anyway, most elderly people fave family living with them. so I'd imagine the number of houses available is pretty small. It does seem a good idea, though.

cruizer101

Depends what the incentives are really, though I doubt there are that many houses that it would go that far towards the major housing problem we have.

Regarding vacant properties I've no problem at all with them being taxed extra if they are in high demand areas.

Now that said I do get annoyed with the government announcing schemes like this that realistically are not going to have any major effect on the housing crisis. At the end of the day we need to build a s**t ton of houses and anything else is just for show

GLaDOS

Can you provide a link showing that they are being forced to do this?

ED E

Kivaro wrote: »

wants our elderly parents/neighbours to rent out their homes if they happen to be in a nursing home.

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

They can just sell the house when they don't need it , surely?

Nah, cant be having that. Kivaro wants it when they croke it.

...And Justice

cruizer101 wrote: »

Depends what the incentives are really, though I doubt there are that many houses that it would go that far towards the major housing problem we have.

Regarding vacant properties I've no problem at all with them being taxed extra if they are in high demand areas.

Now that said I do get annoyed with the government announcing schemes like this that realistically are not going to have any major effect on the housing crisis. At the end of the day we need to build a s**t ton of houses and anything else is just for show

We're taking your home and were going to give the proceeds to the crooked home that was on 60 minutes. That will pay for your care until you die...chortle...chortle.

[Deleted User]

In principle I agree with Eoghan Murphy on this. A habitable, long-term empty house during a homelessness crisis might described as a market failure. Or, for those who have a conscience, morally wrong.

On the other hand, is it acceptable to provide universal healthcare to those in need, on the basis of need, with the exception of the elderly?

Why should a cancer patient be (quite rightfully) treated with innovative, expensive healthcare, perhaps running into the millions, yet be refused care when they (similarly involuntarily) happen to be incapacitated due to age?

This policy probably makes sense in terms of so-called realpolitik, but I'm not sure it's fair to treat the needy differently based on whether their illness is based on age or not.

There would be uproar if we forced cancer patients to sell or lease their homes.

Crunchienut

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

They can just sell the house when they don't need it , surely?

AFAIK under the Fair Deal scheme Revenue can put a charge on the property in return for additional contribution to the cost of the nursing home. This is then eventually recovered from the person's estate (up to 15%) so selling the house could be a problem under these circumstances

punisher5112

Why don't they for starters stop giving all out land and housing to vulture funds etc.... All private investors and foreign for that matter.

We had absolutely sh1t loads of properties but now these funds have snapped them all up for buttons.

They pay no tax..... Yes no tax whatsoever.

Look up rte and selling off Ireland. I-res is one entity that has snapped up close to 3k units and hopes to get 5k....

Their rent is 2.8k last year for a 2 bed apartment at ifsc.

This is absolutely mind boggling and should never have happened.

I want and need to buy but can't as rent is crazy so can't afford to save.....

For Forks Sake

GLaDOS wrote: »

Can you provide a link showing that they are being forced to do this?

Your'e expecting facts and evidence on here?

Get a pitchfork and rabble rabble rabble...

[Deleted User]

Crunchienut wrote: »

AFAIK under the Fair Deal scheme Revenue can put a charge on the property in return for additional contribution to the cost of the nursing home. This is then eventually recovered from the person's estate (up to 15%) so selling the house could be a problem under these circumstances

Regarding the home, it's only taken into consideration for the first 3 years.

"If you have already been in a nursing home for 3 years when you apply for the scheme, then you do not pay the 7.5% on your principal residence.

After 3 years, even if you are still getting long-term nursing home care, you will not pay any further contribution based on the principal residence. This ‘three-year cap’ applies regardless of whether you choose to opt for the Nursing Home Loan or not."

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/health/health_services/health_services_for_older_people/nursing_homes_support_scheme_1.html

enricoh

You work all your life, through the economic depression in the 70's, paying tax at 60% in the 80's and crazy interest rates, pay off the mortgage and hope to leave a decent nest egg to the kids and grandkids.
Eh no, we require your house for the cant work, wont work brigade on the council waiting list whining on joe duffy, 50% of whom have only arrived to this country.
Yeah sounds reasonable!

Dravokivich

I thought in most of these scenarios the house was used against the costs of private nursing care already?

Dravokivich

enricoh wrote: »

You work all your life, through the economic depression in the 70's, paying tax at 60% in the 80's and crazy interest rates, pay off the mortgage and hope to leave a decent nest egg to the kids and grandkids.
Eh no, we require your house for the cant work, wont work brigade on the council waiting list whining on joe duffy, 50% of whom have only arrived to this country.
Yeah sounds reasonable!

Is there a market for semi-fiction?

...And Justice

Dravokivich wrote: »

Is there a market for semi-fiction?

They'll privatise the business to their vulture friends. That's what FG do. Rip off the public for business needs of the not so needy.

Hitman3000

Kivaro wrote:

Thinking about our parents working all their lives to keep a home over our heads only to end up being forced to be landlords at the end or their lives is bewildering.

It'll die a death when enough FG supporters realise this could impact them.

gizmo81

Absolutely ridiculous. How long will this take to organise?

In a few weeks they could have thousands of rooms and a fair chunk of properties available in the major cities if they regulated Air BnB.

Force Air BnB to check ownership, they already check ID for hosts.

Majority of Air BnBers in Dublin are young foreign nationals who don't own the rooms or the properties they list on Air BnB.

Air BnB's original function was for Owner Occupier, enforce this.

Uriel.

There's been no mention of forcing anyone to do anything as of yet. It seems to me that for the elderly in the nursing homes under fair deal that the government is going to try incentivise them some how to rent out their home. I'm guessing that they'll come up with something like allowing them to keep the rental income rather than taking it from them to cover their contributions to the nursing home fees. Or something of that nature.

Thing is though can't really see that being much of an incentive. Because who is going to manage the property and organise the lettings? If you're in a nursing home you're not likely to be able to do what's required.

What happens your possessions and furniture is another practical consideration, if you rent out the house?

Who's going to step in and chase unpaid rent or deal with bad tenants. How does a landlord sitting in a nursing home carryout inspections or handle repairs or other issues? Hire an agent? How much will be left after their fees etc. Hardly worth the grief for the house owner.

Seeing as landlords are already leaving the market over imbalanced rights, amongst other things, I can't believe the government is trying to seriously attract new landlords in their 70s, 80s,90s into the farcical rental market. They have to be taking the piss.

It sounds like a ridiculous option thrown into a new policy for the sake of been seen to do Something. I can't see it delivering a whole lot.

I see separately that Barry Cowen is saying FF would support measures that would force people to bring their vacant properties to the market and asks the government to introduce such measures. The question I have for Barry Cowen is does his proposed policy include elderly people in nursing homes being forced to be landlords?

brightspark

Deleted User wrote: »

Regarding the home, it's only taken into consideration for the first 3 years.

"If you have already been in a nursing home for 3 years when you apply for the scheme, then you do not pay the 7.5% on your principal residence.

After 3 years, even if you are still getting long-term nursing home care, you will not pay any further contribution based on the principal residence. This ‘three-year cap’ applies regardless of whether you choose to opt for the Nursing Home Loan or not."

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/health/health_services/health_services_for_older_people/nursing_homes_support_scheme_1.html

Correct 22.5% of the value of the house is to be used to pay for the Fair Deal scheme for the first three years.

But if you sell it, then does it then just become capital which is then liable for the 7.5% charge each year?

Would rental income would be assessable as income, not certain but I think 80% of income is used to pay the Fair Deal also?

freshpopcorn

I can never take Eoghan Murphy seriously since he grew that beard to make him look more mature!

Victor

1. My sister bought a house in 1989 for about €74,000. It is now worth about €500,000. The increase in house prices over that time has transferred a huge amount of wealth from younger people to older people.

2. Having a vacant house poses risks to the house - weather damage potentially goes from minor to severe, as problems go unnoticed for an extended period.

3. Renting out the property means there is income for the owner to cover insurance and maintenance costs.

Kivaro wrote: »

I believe that Government's interference with property rights should be legally challenged if they pursue these unfair policies of picking on the most vulnerable in society.

4. Someone being cared for in a nursing home (with medical and social care), while vulnerable, is hardly as vulnerable as someone living from day to day in a hostel or the like.

Kivaro wrote: »

Fine Gael are also threatening other vacant home owners that there will be financial penalties imposed on them if they do not rent out their properties .

Not unreasonable. Having assets sitting idle isn't useful when those asset are in demand.

Kivaro wrote: »

I heard on a radio show last week a statistic of approximately 50% of those on housing waiting lists are non-Irish.

I wouldn't necessarily trust such a statistic. Housing waiting lists don't include most people looking for housing.

Housing and homelessness will continue to be an issue forever if the numbers coming into the country are not addressed.

Most of the current issue is the continuing natural increase in population, which excludes immigration. If you want to do something, stop people having babies and/or moving out of their parents' home.

Kivaro wrote: »

Thinking about our parents working all their lives to keep a home over our heads only to end up being forced to be landlords at the end or their lives is bewildering.

But they get to keep the asset. If you can't stand the idea of some other child living in your childhood bedroom, then move yourself back in to your parent's home and free up the property you are currently occupying.

Jobs OXO

Kivaro wrote: »

Apparently Eoghan Murphy (eoghan.murphy@oir.ie and finegael@finegael.ie) wants our elderly parents/neighbours to rent out their homes if they happen to be in a nursing home. If this is Fine Gael's solution to the housing problem, then we should be all worried.

I believe that Government's interference with property rights should be legally challenged if they pursue these unfair policies of picking on the most vulnerable in society. Fine Gael are also threatening other vacant home owners that there will be financial penalties imposed on them if they do not rent out their properties ........... on top of the property and other taxes that they are already paying. The Government also want to increase their compulsory purchase order powers in order to seize vacant properties around the country.

I heard on a radio show last week a statistic of approximately 50% of those on housing waiting lists are non-Irish. Housing and homelessness will continue to be an issue forever if the numbers coming into the country are not addressed.

Thinking about our parents working all their lives to keep a home over our heads only to end up being forced to be landlords at the end or their lives is bewildering.

This is a new low in politics.

Why should I be forced (via my taxes) to fund some aul wan or aul lad who was too daft or too to properly fund their pension requirements?

Victor

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

On the other hand, is it acceptable to provide universal healthcare to those in need, on the basis of need, with the exception of the elderly?

There is a difference between providing medical services and providing long-term nursing home care.

punisher5112 wrote: »

Why don't they for starters stop giving all out land and housing to vulture funds etc.

Not really on-topic, but this doesn't really affect total available housing. In fact, it frees up some housing. The 'vulture funds' tend to actually be more forgiving than the banks.

enricoh wrote: »

You work all your life, through the economic depression in the 70's, paying tax at 60% in the 80's and crazy interest rates, pay off the mortgage and hope to leave a decent nest egg to the kids and grandkids.

A more realistic description would be €500,000 asset sitting idle and deteriorating - or rather 250,000 such assets lying idle.

Eh no, we require your house for the cant work, wont work brigade on the council waiting list whining on joe duffy,

No, the government isn't saying who they should be let out to. Most of the demand for housing is from workers starting new households.

50% of whom have only arrived to this country.

Most immigrants are here to work. Those who aren't have no right to stay beyond 3 months, unless they provide for themselves.

Pkiernan

So what happens if a person leaves the nursing home only to find some scumbag deadbeat tenants won't vacate?

More Marxism creeping into our body politic, and stupid lefties lap it up.

suicide_circus

Dear The Government,

Please stop trying every trick under the sun to avoid building social housing. Get off yizzer holes and build tens of thousands of high standard units such as those built in the 1940s.

Many thanks.

Many thanks

I love Sean nos

Kivaro wrote: »

Fine Gael are also threatening other vacant home owners that there will be financial penalties imposed on them if they do not rent out their properties

So, nothing to do with the elderly really. Just a proposed incentive to keep housing stock occupied.

Strange that you'd open your thread with concern about the elderly and your neighbours. It's almost like you were spin the story to suit your own ends.

AllGunsBlazing

The_Valeyard wrote: »

I'm not sure this policy makes sense or has been properly thought out.

In other words, Ireland.

[Deleted User]

suicide_circus wrote: »

Dear The Government,

Please stop trying every trick under the sun to avoid building social housing. Get off yizzer holes and build tens of thousands of high standard units such as those built in the 1940s.

Many thanks.

Many thanks

Trouble is that when they do try building, natives revolt. NIMBY. People in need of social housing also need be more flexible. There was a case in the newspapers recently where a family moved BACK to Dublin from Wexford looking to be housed!

This initiative needs looking into carefully. There are lots of questions to be answered.

[Deleted User]

Jobs OXO wrote: »

Why should I be forced (via my taxes) to fund some aul wan or aul lad who was too daft or too to properly fund their pension requirements?

Pension requirements? Aren't these nursing homes like 1-2 grand a week?