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Mayo GAA Discussion - Part 3

DoctaDee

Welcome to the Mayo GAA discussion thread - Chapter 3, yer trotting them out quicker than a Mills & Boon Romance !.

This is one of the most active forums on Boards.ie. As a result, discussion can get quite heated. But there are certain things posters must realise are simply not OK to post:

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- Trolling.

- Accusations of trolling. Report a post if you suspect it to be trolling.

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FullBack Jam

Shurimgreat wrote: »

Its a complicated subject which isn't helped by the fact you take one or two sentences from my original post and run with that. I made several points including about the old saying that you don't change a winning team. There's also a wider point I'd make about the modern game being a 20 or 21 player game, in that your subs often are as important as your starting 15. There's also the question of Keegans fitness. And finally its not me who decides, its the manager. I wouldn't be shocked if Keegan started from the bench all things considered. It wouldn't be the end of the world as some posters seem to want to portray it as.

Man, you really need to change your username - substitute "useless" for "great". Seems like you’re not up to speed at all on football issues. You would have to be hiding under a rock to be in the dark on Keegan's woes. It was to do with a blister on his foot. He’s not injured. He was ready to come on if needed. No concerns for semi-final. Why do you keep on about his fitness?

And on the issue of benching Keegan, there IS something wrong with keeping a brilliant player as a substitute and bringing him on when the dust settles and when manager has analysed how things are going. What Einstein manager has done that? You say you wouldn’t be surprised if Keegan starts from the bench. If Rochford started Keegan as sub against Kerry (unless injured), he would be outdoing his goalkeeping controversy from last year’s final. He’s not a fool.

Shurimgreat

km79 wrote: »

Keegan wasn't injured.
He had an infection.
He is fully fit .
He is one of the best players in Ireland .
He starts .
End of discussion

And who are you dropping from the Roscommon replay ?
And who will you put Keegan marking?
Or where do you put him?
And who are your sources for him being fully fit?

Shurimgreat

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

That is a different point though, you were talking about a modern game and bringing on strong players off the bench. Injuries weren't really mentioned. There is nothing modern about not playing an injured player either is there?
It is also a bit of a contraction - why would you be bringing on an injured player in the modern game?

Its a complicated subject which isn't helped by the fact you take one or two sentences from my original post and run with that. I made several points including about the old saying that you don't change a winning team. There's also a wider point I'd make about the modern game being a 20 or 21 player game, in that your subs often are as important as your starting 15. There's also the question of Keegans fitness. And finally its not me who decides, its the manager. I wouldn't be shocked if Keegan started from the bench all things considered. It wouldn't be the end of the world as some posters seem to want to portray it as.

[Deleted User]

eagle eye wrote: »

Going for goals when you have a big lead is a bad decision, you just keep building the lead. The reason this is an issue is because if you do it right every week then you will do it right when it's important. If you are doing the wrong thing on the easy day out then you don't know what to do when it's a tougher game.

Looks like you spent the last 48 hours trying to come up with a negative about a 22 point win in a game that was over by half time and what you came up with was that they went for too many goals.

Loafing Oaf

eagle eye wrote: »

Going for goals when you have a big lead is a bad decision, you just keep building the lead.

If a team has a mental bloc about shooting for goal it can help build their confidence IMO. I believe this Mayo team have been more willing to take a chance on a goal ever since sticking 5 past London in the 2013 Connacht Final...

yop

1400 posts in this thread in a month!!!! Dublin thread has 1300 since beginning of June! Either us Mayo lads can't stop talking about Mayo football or we get a lot of visitors!

eagle eye

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

But what point are you trying to make ?

22 points is a massive score difference.

Do you think that it’s not enough?

It will have no relevance to the Kerry game as they will be two totally different games.

Explain to me why Kerry did not beat Galway by more than 9, surely they left points out there as well?

On the Sunday Game after the Ulster Final one of the panel was asked to find a fault with Tyrone’s display (I can’t remember who it was could have been Dessie Dolan) .

They brought up a clip of a Tyrone fisting a ball over the bar in a game that was already won and said something to the tune of ‘if that was Kerry or Dublin they would have gone for goal, that’s the difference between Kerry and Dublin and the rest yada yada yada…”

Yet Kerry fisted points over the bar in the Munster final and no one said boo, and probably did the same v Galway

And you now find going for goals as a point of a criticism for a team that was just going through the motions ?

Going for goals when you have a big lead is a bad decision, you just keep building the lead. The reason this is an issue is because if you do it right every week then you will do it right when it's important. If you are doing the wrong thing on the easy day out then you don't know what to do when it's a tougher game.

km79

Keegan wasn't injured.
He had an infection.
He is fully fit .
He is one of the best players in Ireland .
He starts .
End of discussion

MayoAreMagic

Shurimgreat wrote: »

A. Its irrelevant what I do, its the manager who makes the changes.
B. None of us have any clue as to whether he is over his injury. If he is fully fit I would probably start him. But who do you take off, given there wasn't a single weak link against Roscommon? On the balance of probability I would start him, but the question is who do you drop and why?
C. Similar to B., we don't know if he's fully fit and over his injury. No point playing a player who isn't fully fit just because he's the great Lee Keegan.

So its not as straightforward as saying "We need to start Lee Keegan". Again you have to be nuanced and assess his fitness and how and where he can make the best impact on the game.

That is a different point though, you were talking about a modern game and bringing on strong players off the bench. Injuries weren't really mentioned. There is nothing modern about not playing an injured player either is there?
It is also a bit of a contraction - why would you be bringing on an injured player in the modern game?

Shurimgreat

Boom__Boom wrote: »

Stats from the Mayo Roscommon game.

37 scoring chances from play
18 scoring chances from play converted

Also a quick lesson in turning bookies odds into probability.

Currently Paddy Power have Mayo at 9/4 Kerry 1/2 and the Draw 15/2

In percentage terms this works out as

Mayo 31%
Kerry 67%
Draw 12%

The reason this doesn't add up to 100% is the overround or basically the bookies profit.

If you adjust it down to take out the bookies profit and get their true odds, it works out as

Mayo 28%
Kerry 61%
Draw 11%

In terms of the "favourites" versus "hot favourites" debate, I'd imagine that there is no way to accurately agree on that, but it's clear that Kerry are favourites and by a good margin.

A draw at 15/2 looks tempting. Very similar teams to 2014 and there wasn't a kick of the ball between them in both games until the very end. The difference was clearly with the ref that day. We get a proper ref this time around and it will still be a close game. It could be another epic! All things considered I am looking forward to it.

Shurimgreat

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

So you would leave keegan on the bench against Kerry...
That is lee keegan now - probably the player with the most complete skillset in the game.

I wonder will Kerry be leaving Geaney and David Moran out? Modern game and all that...

Some players you need on the pitch - keegan is most definitely one of them.

FFS, we won the game and won it well. Could we have scored more? Yes. But the game was over by half time, and guys take on shots in that situation. Are you telling me that Kerry or Dublin didn't miss a few chances to win by more in their games? Diarmuid O'Connor is the only guy Id take issue with for their shot selection.

We should now consign the Roscommon game to the past and move on to Kerry. We can definitely beat them, but it will be a big ask. The battle between AOS and Morley will be a big factor in the game. If they win a lot of primary possession he could hurt us breaking up the field, but vice versa is also true. To win, we need to find a way to put Moran on the backfoot.

A. Its irrelevant what I do, its the manager who makes the changes.
B. None of us have any clue as to whether he is over his injury. If he is fully fit I would probably start him. But who do you take off, given there wasn't a single weak link against Roscommon? On the balance of probability I would start him, but the question is who do you drop and why?
C. Similar to B., we don't know if he's fully fit and over his injury. No point playing a player who isn't fully fit just because he's the great Lee Keegan.

So its not as straightforward as saying "We need to start Lee Keegan". Again you have to be nuanced and assess his fitness and how and where he can make the best impact on the game.

MayoAreMagic

Shurimgreat wrote: »

I said it has created a selection headache which it has. There is nothing wrong with leaving a brilliant player on the bench and bringing them on when you see how the game is going and where he is most needed. The modern game involves all sorts of rotations of players, you just have to look at Dublin as an example.

So you would leave keegan on the bench against Kerry...
That is lee keegan now - probably the player with the most complete skillset in the game.

I wonder will Kerry be leaving Geaney and David Moran out? Modern game and all that...

Some players you need on the pitch - keegan is most definitely one of them.

FFS, we won the game and won it well. Could we have scored more? Yes. But the game was over by half time, and guys take on shots in that situation. Are you telling me that Kerry or Dublin didn't miss a few chances to win by more in their games? Diarmuid O'Connor is the only guy Id take issue with for their shot selection.

We should now consign the Roscommon game to the past and move on to Kerry. We can definitely beat them, but it will be a big ask. The battle between AOS and Morley will be a big factor in the game. If they win a lot of primary possession he could hurt us breaking up the field, but vice versa is also true. To win, we need to find a way to put Moran on the backfoot.

Boom__Boom

Stats from the Mayo Roscommon game.

37 scoring chances from play
18 scoring chances from play converted

Also a quick lesson in turning bookies odds into probability.

Currently Paddy Power have Mayo at 9/4 Kerry 1/2 and the Draw 15/2

In percentage terms this works out as

Mayo 31%
Kerry 67%
Draw 12%

The reason this doesn't add up to 100% is the overround or basically the bookies profit.

If you adjust it down to take out the bookies profit and get their true odds, it works out as

Mayo 28%
Kerry 61%
Draw 11%

In terms of the "favourites" versus "hot favourites" debate, I'd imagine that there is no way to accurately agree on that, but it's clear that Kerry are favourites and by a good margin.

km79

PARlance wrote: »

22 point win, not 20. You must be counting one of them goals as a point.

Oops I forgot the TWO

By eagle eyes mentality it would in fact have been a twenty point win anyway
Take the easy points gave us six extra BUT take the easy point for the 4 goals is a net loss of 8 points so we only win by 20 by taking the easy point

Shurimgreat

flasher0030 wrote: »

Earlier, you suggested that Lee Keegan be left on the bench for the semi-final against Kerry. The same Lee Keegan who is the reigning player of the year, scored 1-3 in one half of football in the quarter final, and is currently showing even greater form than last year. I think we all (or most of us anyway) agree that Mayo’s strength is their running game, and possibly their only hope against Kerry. And you want to leave our strongest scoring half-back on the side-line.

I honestly do not understand what footballing mentality you carry around with you. You’re coming up with these strange assertions – “Anyone who thinks we will have it anyways easy against the big 3 is na”. I’m pretty sure nobody here thinks we have it anyways easy against the big 3. And the reason I know that is because nobody has said it. So I don’t know where you are getting these fantasies from. Unless you are a troll, and just sniggering away as you type.

I said earlier that Kerry are hot favourites. I meant it in bookies terms. 2/1 on for Kerry to win, and 9/4 (I think) for Mayo to win does make Kerry hot favourites in a 2 horse race in my opinion. Obviously Paddy Power does not agree with you that the teams are evenly matched.

I said it has created a selection headache which it has. There is nothing wrong with leaving a brilliant player on the bench and bringing them on when you see how the game is going and where he is most needed. The modern game involves all sorts of rotations of players, you just have to look at Dublin as an example. I also said the other option is to start him. So relax and keep your shorts on.

So you think we are going to steam roll any of the big 3? My footballing mentality is far more sound than yours. Roscommon are a young inexperienced team who may be a force in future years but not this year. They aren't within a million miles of any of the other counties left in the competition.

So as I said before, the replay against the Rossies was worthless when deciding how good Mayo's chances are of winning the AI. It really is that simple. Believing because we steamrolled Roscommon, we will steam roll everyone else left in the competition is idiocy in the extreme.

Some of the predictions of some posters have been widely off the mark through the entire campaign. The predicted we'd hammer everyone along the way and they made fools of themselves while doing it. Now many of the same posters are making more wild predictions for the Kerry game, how we will take them handy and either Tyrone or Dublin afterwards. Its hard to take these predictions seriously.

Look, I think some people should just enjoy the occasion, shout "come on Mayo" every so often, etc. But they should leave the serious analysis to others who have a more nuanced and non-biased view of the game.

yop

Jeebus lads its bloody opinions, one poster thinks one thing others dont agree, hardly need to go losing the plot over it!

We hammered Roscommon, we are in a semi, we have a chance of beating Kerry. Happy days. Sun is shining, go get a farmers tan!

PARlance

km79 wrote: »

I can't believe I'm actually seeing this conversation .
There is no pleasing some people.
Happy enough with the TWENTY POINT WIN myself .
They won't beat Kerry without scoring goals

22 point win, not 20. You must be counting one of them goals as a point.

FullBack Jam

Shurimgreat wrote: »

Big difference between favourites and hot favourites. I answered another poster who said Kerry were hot favourites to defeat Mayo. They aren't. I've said they are evenly matched.

So far I have called most of the games correctly, apart from the Roscommon replay, although I will have to check back what I said about the replay.

In contrast you had other posters who said we would have no trouble against any team. All I saw on here in the buildup to the Cork game was how Cork football is a shambles, Mayo will have no trouble blah blah. I pointed out that Cork were of a similar quality if not better than Derry and Clare and not far off Galway.
The truth is we struggled all the way to the Roscommon replay and finally found another gear. As I said on the Roscommon thread, Roscommon looked tired and are also inexperienced. As Pat Spillane said the game was worthless as an exercise in analysing where Mayo are at re the other big 3 teams. Anyone with half a clue about football would also agree with this.

Some posters on here struggle with nuances and minor distinctions in posts.
For example it is correct to say we struggled up to the Roscommon replay. We then hammered them. But Kerry, Tyrone and Dublin are a completely different proposition to a leg weary Roscommon team. Anyone who thinks we will have it anyways easy against the big 3 is naive. I'm calling it a close game between Kerry and Mayo.

Earlier, you suggested that Lee Keegan be left on the bench for the semi-final against Kerry. The same Lee Keegan who is the reigning player of the year, scored 1-3 in one half of football in the quarter final, and is currently showing even greater form than last year. I think we all (or most of us anyway) agree that Mayo’s strength is their running game, and possibly their only hope against Kerry. And you want to leave our strongest scoring half-back on the side-line.

I honestly do not understand what footballing mentality you carry around with you. You’re coming up with these strange assertions – “Anyone who thinks we will have it anyways easy against the big 3 is naïve”. I’m pretty sure nobody here thinks we have it anyways easy against the big 3. And the reason I know that is because nobody has said it. So I don’t know where you are getting these fantasies from. Unless you are a troll, and just sniggering away as you type.

I said earlier that Kerry are hot favourites. I meant it in bookies terms. 2/1 on for Kerry to win, and 9/4 (I think) for Mayo to win does make Kerry hot favourites in a 2 horse race in my opinion. Obviously Paddy Power does not agree with you that the teams are evenly matched.

yop

I wanted a 30 pointed, really disgusted we didn't. ....

happyoutscan

eagle eye wrote: »

Right so, you are all in favour of Mayo doing the wrong thing?

Stop talking sh*te.

[Deleted User]

km79 wrote: »

I can't believe I'm actually seeing this conversation .
There is no pleasing some people.
Happy enough with the TWENTY POINT WIN myself .
They won't beat Kerry without scoring goals

Nope, should have been 28

If it was Kerry or Dublin they would have won by 28.

Shurimgreat

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

Well they're 2/1 on with the bookies, not raging hot favourites but clear favourites all the same

Big difference between favourites and hot favourites. I answered another poster who said Kerry were hot favourites to defeat Mayo. They aren't. I've said they are evenly matched.

So far I have called most of the games correctly, apart from the Roscommon replay, although I will have to check back what I said about the replay.

In contrast you had other posters who said we would have no trouble against any team. All I saw on here in the buildup to the Cork game was how Cork football is a shambles, Mayo will have no trouble blah blah. I pointed out that Cork were of a similar quality if not better than Derry and Clare and not far off Galway.
The truth is we struggled all the way to the Roscommon replay and finally found another gear. As I said on the Roscommon thread, Roscommon looked tired and are also inexperienced. As Pat Spillane said the game was worthless as an exercise in analysing where Mayo are at re the other big 3 teams. Anyone with half a clue about football would also agree with this.

Some posters on here struggle with nuances and minor distinctions in posts.
For example it is correct to say we struggled up to the Roscommon replay. We then hammered them. But Kerry, Tyrone and Dublin are a completely different proposition to a leg weary Roscommon team. Anyone who thinks we will have it anyways easy against the big 3 is naive. I'm calling it a close game between Kerry and Mayo.

keane2097

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Yet Kerry fisted points over the bar in the Munster final and no one said boo, and probably did the same v Galway

At least one person said they should be literally murdered in fairness.

km79

I can't believe I'm actually seeing this conversation .
There is no pleasing some people.
Happy enough with the TWENTY POINT WIN myself .
They won't beat Kerry without scoring goals

[Deleted User]

eagle eye wrote: »

Clearly you don't understand plain English.
I am criticising then for leaving points out there. They would have won by six more if they had taken their easy points instead of going for goals.

But what point are you trying to make ?

22 points is a massive score difference.

Do you think that it’s not enough?

It will have no relevance to the Kerry game as they will be two totally different games.

Explain to me why Kerry did not beat Galway by more than 9, surely they left points out there as well?

On the Sunday Game after the Ulster Final one of the panel was asked to find a fault with Tyrone’s display (I can’t remember who it was could have been Dessie Dolan) .

They brought up a clip of a Tyrone fisting a ball over the bar in a game that was already won and said something to the tune of ‘if that was Kerry or Dublin they would have gone for goal, that’s the difference between Kerry and Dublin and the rest yada yada yada…”

Yet Kerry fisted points over the bar in the Munster final and no one said boo, and probably did the same v Galway

And you now find going for goals as a point of a criticism for a team that was just going through the motions ?

Shurimgreat

PARlance wrote: »

Where are you getting all this from? Mayo world beaters, Kerry underdogs, we're taking them for granted... the only one talking this nonsense is yourself.

It was the same last week when you were on a crusade about McHale / McStay. Over on the Roscommon thread apologising for your fellow Mayo supporters and saying how great their team was... they've suddenly become tired, demoralised and young now.

I get the feeling that you'll only be happy when or if we get knocked out.

Total horse manure and you know it. The rest of your post isn't much better and not worth a response.

eagle eye

happyoutscan wrote:

I'm more than happy with a 22 point win. Anymore and we wouldn't know ourselves.

Right so, you are all in favour of Mayo doing the wrong thing?
I bet you'll be the person criticising them when they lose a game through not taking their easy points.

FullBack Jam

eagle eye wrote: »

Clearly you don't understand plain English.
I am criticising then for leaving points out there. They would have won by six more if they had taken their easy points instead of going for goals.

Fr. Tod. I think it's best to let this one go. You just know it's going to end in tears.

I have to confess that I don't remember Mayo missing 8 goal chances, but with the dominance that was there, Eagle Eye could be right about that statistic.

happyoutscan

eagle eye wrote: »

Clearly you don't understand plain English.
I am criticising then for leaving points out there. They would have won by six more if they had taken their easy points instead of going for goals.

I'm more than happy with a 22 point win. Anymore and we wouldn't know ourselves.

eagle eye

Fr Tod Umptious wrote:

Oh you can never win

Fr Tod Umptious wrote:

Mayo won by 22 points.

Fr Tod Umptious wrote:

Had they only won by 10 someone would be saying that unlike Kerry or Dublin they don't crush the opposition when they should

Fr Tod Umptious wrote:

Other days when Mayo (and other teams not called Kerry or Dublin) kick points instead of goals they are criticised for not going for goals

Fr Tod Umptious wrote:

Now you are criticising them for going for goals during a what was little more than a training session.

Fr Tod Umptious wrote:

Kerry only beat Galway by 9, a team that lost to Roscommon by 9, a team that lost to Mayo by 22, go analyise that

Clearly you don't understand plain English.
I am criticising then for leaving points out there. They would have won by six more if they had taken their easy points instead of going for goals.