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Ism's and phobia's and what they mean to you

FraR

In today's world and from reading the media and the internet, you would swear that the West was inundated with racism, white guilt, rabid Islamophobia, anti male sentiment, anti feminists, "feminazis", "sjws" etc. etc. and many more buzzwords and phrases.

Those with extreme opinions often get heard first as they're the loudest and the most controversial. Controversial opinions sell.

But what has been your experience? Have you ever experienced anti male sentiments in real life? Have you ever experienced or witnessed hardcore racism or homophobic behaviour?

Here's one of the times i experienced what id call hardcore racism.

I used to think anti traveller racism was a bit of a joke until I got a decent enough job in a hotel. Saw travellers refused service for the smallest of reasons. Was working in a hotel in North Dublin throughout college and after two and a half years started working Duty Manager shifts.

During the October mid term I was working full time and got a call from reception to tell me that there was an enquiry about a funeral booking and if I could deal with it. Grand, says I. The person enquiring was a traveller, a member of her family died and she wanted to book an area for a few hours for the afters of the funeral. Gave her a price of €15.95 for finger food, tea/coffee, soup and sambos. 60 to 120 people. A lovely bit of business for the end of October.

Asked the lady for a credit card number to guarantee the booking. She told me she only had a laser, but sure she'd come in and pay a deposit cash? How much a deposit do you need? Sure, if you can pay me me for sixty peoples food now and any extra that arrive, you can pay on the day. Might make things easier for yourself. Chancing me arm, like. She ended up coming in and paying nearly a grand in a deposit. Happy ****ing days. I've got the payment in advance and everything.

Chuffed with myself, I went to my general manager with the news that we've got a nice bit of daytime business in, and he seemed happy enough. When he saw that it was a Connors funeral, he didn't want to know. As I took the deposit there was feck all that could be done without getting sued. "Don't take Knackers funerals, James."

Around 80 came in, the extras were paid for by the family at the end. But they barely stayed two hours. Every manager in the place was rostered and strolling around the funeral party as if they were all convicted killers. I felt very embarrassed as I was the contact for the family and they were all seemingly decent folks.

This was one o'clock midweek in a half dead hotel and there's four security strolling around along with every manager in the joint. Any poor ****ers that ordered a few drinks were given extra attention.

Yep, I know there's a problem with violence in some sections of the travelling community. But how they're treated in hotels and bars is very unfair. I found that if you were serving them or dealing with them completely straight up and fairly, then they respected you back for it. Just treat them like any other customer. "There's your three pint bottles of Bulmers and your pint of Arthurs, sir" along with "less of the aggressive language there, gents. We are all friends here." Good tippers too.

But that incident made we feel like I was working an inter ethnic wedding in 1920s Alabama. They were treated terribly.

What have been your experiences?

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red ears

I find the acceptability of anti white sentiment these days disturbing. You can't talk about any other group like you can talk about white people. This white privilege crap is just a way to be racist towards white people. And its basically giving a free pass to minorities giving out about white people. And don't get me started about white people jumping on the white privilege band wagon.

FraR

I think Middle and Upper class whites in the US do have a huge advantage over every other group in the US. But it's not reflective of the situation in Europe and such thinking doesn't travel well here.

red ears

FraR wrote: »

I think Middle and Upper class whites in the US do have a huge advantage over every other group in the US. But it's not reflective of the situation in Europe and such thinking doesn't travel well here.

Not over east asians and jews. Nobody talks of asian privilege or jewish privilege. Its only whites and in particular wasps.

FraR

I think this is part of the problem. American discourse doesn't translate well to Ireland and indeed Europe.

But as they're the dominant culture and we absorb so much of their media, their cultural battles seep into our own. So may young Irish people now speak with American accents and use American slang. It's only natural that they also pick up their politics.

I love America and most American people i meet. I think the US is probably one of the most beautiful country’s in the world. Just a slight bit behind New Zealand and Iceland.

But their politics are toxic and we would do well to avoid them.

KKkitty

I live in a village where there is an annual traveller meet up/matchmaking thing if you will. They sell their wares and trinkets. Every pub, bar one closes while this is happening. The members of the travelling community that I've met have been pleasant but unfortunately because of the acts of certain individuals years ago this is the way things are now in my locality. It's like most things. All it may take is the actions of a few to tar everyone else with the same brush.

Samaris

The worst I tend to see of it is on the internet and is then reflected in the media and again the internet acts as a megaphone so it seems to snowball from there. Seen it real life now and again, but I tend to find people are less inclined to be totally outrageous in person, probably because it is easier to write some things than say them to another person.

I've personally run across (and afoul of on occasion) sexism, racism and homophobia (misidentified in the last two, insofar as I was neither Pakistani nor gay) and I'd certainly stand by that the various -isms do exist rumbling just below the surface in societies I'm relatively familiar with - Ireland and the UK.

mahamageehad

I'd agree that people tend to be less outrageous or outspoken in person, and I have to think that some of the stuff said online in both left and right extremes is someone taking the piss. Or saying things to get attention, now that the likes of Pierse Morgan and Katie Hopkins have made it a valid career option.

I've defo seen the anti traveler sentiment alright in service establishments, but in the town where I'm from I do find it hard to blame the publicans too much as there have been so many incidents in recent years. A lot of publicans were very upset by the ethnic group ruling as even when they do serve a bunch of travelers, there's nothing that empties a pub faster.

Sexism and ageism are constantly bubbling under the surface. I've personally experienced both multiple times. To be fair though, that's not a uniquely Irish problem. I've also seen quite hand handed racism by native Irish taxi drivers who feel like they can say anything. I'd identify with feminism, but only as far as wanting equality and not the new age hyper-offended, man hating wave. Since living in Germany I've noticed a steady uptick in Islamophobia too when I visit Ireland, but mainly older people with a few drinks in them.

I love Sean nos

FraR wrote: »

Here's one of the times i experienced what id call hardcore racism.

I think you misspelled right to refuse here.

Other than that, you're so right-on that I wish I could reach right through this little screen here and high-five you.

ohnonotgmail

I love Sean nos wrote: »

I think you misspelled right to refuse here.

Other than that, you're so right-on that I wish I could reach right through this little screen here and high-five you.

there is no right to refuse somebody just because they are a traveller.

HalloweenJack

I've seen plenty of anti-Traveller sentiment over the years and I've had plenty of dealings with Travellers too, in work and in my social life. It really is a case of a few bad apples ruining the bunch, regrettably. We might be fairly inclusive in other areas in Ireland but we do have a problem with our attitude towards Travellers.

I've also seen plenty of anti-English sentiment over the years. Not of the banter variety or of the friendly rivalry type but plain and simple racism towards English people, which is somewhat ironic as we've suffered from that ourselves.

Unfortunately, I get the feeling that every society "needs" (for want of a better word) a group to discriminate against. I think it's part of the human psyche.

I have seen homophobia and racism in person and have been on the receiving end of racism for being Irish (was called a Paddy and ignored by someone who I'd been introduced to, can't remember where they were from now but it was an English-speaking country), though I actually found it hilarious.

FraR

I love Sean nos wrote: »

I think you misspelled right to refuse here.

Other than that, you're so right-on that I wish I could reach right through this little screen here and high-five you.

I'm far from right on. I believe all Irish citizens and residents should be treated equal and based upon their character.

I won't apologise for thinking this way. This nation is a Republic.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

Anti Traveller, sure. But they bring it on themselves. Weapons being brought to funerals, garda searches going into cemetery Sunday at the local grave yard. Pubs being broke up. Why would you take the risk on your livelihood?

FraR

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

there is no right to refuse somebody just because they are a traveller.

"Sorry, you've had a few too many already."

It's the get out of jail card.

"Come back when you're sober!"

I got this nonsense in New Hampshire when i was working over there.

They've very strict licencing laws. About twenty of us based in Boston booked a few hotel rooms in a sister hotel in NH and went drinking for the evening. About a dozen or so yanks and three of us micks. We had a beer in one bar and me and one of the girls decided we wanted a smoke? "Do you have any?" Nope, you?

So we want on a wander to find a seven eleven for a pack of cigarettes. Took us well over an hour to get a store that had ciggies and by the time we walked back, the gang were in a different bar with a large outdoor area.

"Can I've four bottles of Sam Adam's please mate."

One drink max.

"Just a bottle of Sammy so, thanks".

Walk out to my mates and immediately get called aside by two bouncers. They tell me that im slurring my words. I've a strong inner city Dub accent and it does sound that way if you're not used to it. One bouncer tells me I've had enough to drink and I've to leave.

"Mate, honest to **** I've had the one bottle and I've long since walked that off. Ah, **** it. I'm not gonna win this argument. Best of luck and have a good night. "

And I walked off, shaking his hand before I left the premises. Ordered room service and watched a film instead.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

FraR wrote: »

I'm far from right on. I believe all Irish citizens and residents should be treated equal and based upon their character.

I won't apologise for thinking this way. This nation is a Republic.

People can't afford to take that risk though, when you've been on the receiving end of their behaviour of course you'll take steps to avoid that in the future. For example, if a traveller wants to book an appointment in work, she pays for that appointment in full in advance. If she doesn't want to do that, she doesn't come.

ohnonotgmail

FraR wrote: »

"Sorry, you've had a few too many already."

It's the get out of jail card.

"Come back when you're sober!"

I got this nonsense in New Hampshire when i was working over there.

They've very strict licencing laws. About twenty of us based in Boston booked a few hotel rooms in a sister hotel in NH and went drinking for the evening. About a dozen or so yanks and three of us micks. We had a beer in one bar and me and one of the girls decided we wanted a smoke? "Do you have any?" Nope, you?

So we want on a wander to find a seven eleven for a pack of cigarettes. Took us well over an hour to get a store that had ciggies and by the time we walked back, the gang were in a different bar with a large outdoor area.

"Can I've four bottles of Sam Adam's please mate."

One drink max.

"Just a bottle of Sammy so, thanks".

Walk out to my mates and immediately get called aside by two bouncers. They tell me that im slurring my words. I've a strong inner city Dub accent and it does sound that way if you're not used to it. One bouncer tells me I've had enough to drink and I've to leave.

"Mate, honest to **** I've had the one bottle and I've long since walked that off. Ah, **** it. I'm not gonna win this argument. Best of luck and have a good night. "

And I walked off, shaking his hand before I left the premises. Ordered room service and watched a film instead.

a couple of publicans have found to their cost that those excuses dont always work.

FraR

LexieOnRale wrote: »

People can't afford to take that risk though, when you've been on the receiving end of their behaviour of course you'll take steps to avoid that in the future. For example, if a traveller wants to book an appointment in work, she pays for that appointment in full in advance. If she doesn't want to do that, she doesn't come.

Unless it's a feuding family, the majority of travellers are okay. I've had the senior bartender scream at me not to serve a few travellers. Easier said then done. How do you refuse them? He's twice my age but he wouldn't refuse them. No, treat them well and they'll look after you. They don't get treated well often.

"Can I've two pint bottles of Bulmers and two bottles of Smirnoff Ice?"

Certainly, sir. Pints of ice with the Bulmers and glasses of ice for the Smirnoff?"

Ah yeah.

"There's your drinks, gents. 22.50 please"

Keep the change mister.

FraR

To go off topic, you give good prompt bar service with a smile and most people would be appreciative of you these days.

FraR

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

a couple of publicans have found to their cost that those excuses dont always work.

And I think rightfully so. It's damn difficult for a traveller to get a pint in large swathes of Dublin.

homerjay2005

they dont really mean anything to me anymore as there too much of it about now and majority of them are misused too.

you cant do anything these days without having an ism used.

I love Sean nos

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

there is no right to refuse somebody just because they are a traveller.

But they have a right to refuse the risk, yes?

Or the right to refuse for no reason whatsoever.

ohnonotgmail

I love Sean nos wrote: »

But they have a right to refuse the risk, yes?

Or the right to refuse for no reason whatsoever.

If the risk is due to previous experiences with the specific individuals refused then they can. If the risk is due to the just being travellers then they cannot refuse legally.

as i said already a couple of publicans have found that it can be expensive to refuse. The courts are not stupid.

I love Sean nos

FraR wrote: »

I'm far from right on. I believe all Irish citizens and residents should be treated equal and based upon their character.

How do you evaluate character when taking a booking?

FraR wrote: »

I won't apologise for thinking this way.

No need to apologise. Just indemnify your employer for the consequences of your decision.

FraR wrote: »

This nation is a Republic.

FraR

I love Sean nos wrote: »

How do you evaluate character when taking a booking?

No need to apologise. Just indemnify your employer for the consequences of your decision.

I no longer work in hotels.

If someone rings and has an aggressive tone, I wouldn't rent them a place in the smoking area. Never mind in the hotel.

My employer bumped heads with me but I always made him a lot more than I earned.

A Little Pony

Islamophobia is a hilarious word designed to shut people down who are critical on the doctrine of Islam.

Ipso

A Little Pony wrote: »

Islamophobia is a hilarious word designed to shut people down who are critical on the doctrine of Islam.

No really. Someone like Pam Geller is a fruit loop and Islamophobe. Where Richard Dawkins is more level headed in his criticism. Now the professionally annoyed who conflate criticism with hatred are not helping.
In a way I can understand the position that minority groups should not be unfairly picked on, but just because someone is a minority does not automatically mean they can't have horrible beliefs.

A Little Pony

Ipso wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

Islamophobia is a hilarious word designed to shut people down who are critical on the doctrine of Islam.

No really. Someone like Pam Geller is a fruit loop and Islamophobe. Where Richard Dawkins is more level headed in his criticism. Now the professionally annoyed who conflate criticism with hatred are not helping.
In a way I can understand the position that minority groups should not be unfairly picked on, but just because someone is a minority does not automatically mean they can't have horrible beliefs.

Richard Dawkins is an "Islamophobe," he can't stand all religions, particularly Islam. I don't blame him.