Fight Time From 4am-McGregor vs MayweatherMOD Warning in 1st Post

blade1 wrote: »

It is.
Pity he didn't beat them all in their prime.

Is that even possible ?

blade1

Sweet Science wrote: »

Is that even possible ?

Well, if he was better than them at their prime, yes.

The Reservoir Dubs Anchorman

Pot is stirring nicely i see. Get ready for the "Mayweather has been knocked down in sparring" stories to come out in the next 2 weeks

blade1 wrote: »

It is.
Pity he didn't beat them all in their prime.

Can add 23 to the list (technically a UFC world Champ) when he beats McGregor ... in his prime.

The Reservoir Dubs Anchorman wrote: »

Can add 23 to the list (technically a UFC world Champ) when he beats McGregor ... in his prime.

24. The big show was a world champ

blade1

The Reservoir Dubs Anchorman wrote: »

Can add 23 to the list (technically a UFC world Champ) when he beats McGregor ... in his prime.

Yep, they all count.

Frank Bullitt

blade1 wrote: »

Well, if he was better than them at their prime, yes.

So he waited is it?

I never understood this argument at all. He waits for someone to go past their prime, but he also has to wait to fight them as well. How is that ever an advantage?

I'm reading Stephen "Breadman" Edwards latest mailbag on BoxingScene. Check this stat out..

Only 6 men in 20 years have won 4 rounds against Mayweather. Jose Luis Castillo, Oscar De La Hoya, Marcos Maidana, Manny Pacquiao, Miguel Cotto and Zab Judah. Judah also should've gotten a knockdown called which I totally forgot about...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e136w-7KzY8

Gintonious wrote: »

So he waited is it?

I never understood this argument at all. He waits for someone to go past their prime, but he also has to wait to fight them as well. How is that ever an advantage?[/quote

Its virtually impossible to fight every fighter in their prime . There are weight gaps that only match over time when fighters age

Frank Bullitt

Sweet Science wrote: »

Its virtually impossible to fight every fighter in their prime . There are weight gaps that only match over time when fighters age

Its the age old "If my auntie had wheels she'd be a wagon" argument. No evidence really to prove against it, but say it anyway etc.

Mosley, Cotto and of course Pacquiao. Past their prime when Floyd decided the time was right to make a deal. Those 3 weren't bad in their prime.

Also, the first part of this article..https://www.ringtv.com/505851-mayweather-mcgregor-part-sting/..I don't disagree with the strategy and I don't argue against him being an ATG but these things have to be highlighted if yer gonna call yourself 'TBE'.

hbhook wrote: »

Mosley, Cotto and of course Pacquiao. Past their prime when Floyd decided the time was right to make a deal. Those 3 weren't bad in their prime.

He was calling Mosley out for years at the start of the millennium . Couldn't get the fight because he wasn't a ppv fighter which is ironic

Manny isn't that straightforward . The counter argument is that all Manny had to do was take a needle for the biggest fight ever but wouldnt

Cotton yeah maybe . But he was chasing the Oscar fight which ended up selling 2.5 million so who could blame him

Sweet Science wrote: »

He was calling Mosley out for years at the start of the millennium . Couldn't get the fight because he wasn't a ppv fighter which is ironic

Manny isn't that straightforward . The counter argument is that all Manny had to do was take a needle for the biggest fight ever but wouldnt

Cotton yeah maybe . But he was chasing the Oscar fight which ended up selling 2.5 million so who could blame him

Yeah but the needle thing stopped being a problem even before Marquez 3. Then it went back to being about Bob Arum.
Mosley was calling out Floyd for years mid millennium. I think he entered the ring after the Marquez fight.

I don't know why that link I posted isn't working. It's going on about how an associate of the writer recalls meeting Al Haymon before a meeting with Arum in which he asks the guy not to mention Margarito. 8 million career high Margarito fight.

And he was proved right not fighting Margarito

I think every single boxer can be accused of not fighting someone he should though . I'm just playing the devils advocate with Floyd

He's not a businessman, he's a BUSINESS man!

Also, Doug Fischer has some interesting thoughts on Margz and his loaded gloves. He reckons that if it was something that had been done more than once or if the powers that be knew that Margarito was complicit then more would've been done about it. Bans, fines even jail. Then again..this is boxing..

I don't name drop these writers because I think they're infallible. I'm just letting ye know where I'm getting my info.

hbhook wrote: »

Mosley, Cotto and of course Pacquiao. Past their prime when Floyd decided the time was right to make a deal. Those 3 weren't bad in their prime.

Floyd is definitely gulity of priming a fight for his own liking but to say he avoided Mosley and Cotto until they were past their prime is wrong. He called out Mosley years before they met, Mosley conveniently had a toothache and wouldn't entertain the idea. Then before the fight was signed in 2010, everyone including Freddie Roach, Kellerman, Larry Merchant and a host of others said he was dodging the dangerous Mosley who was just after destroying big Tony Margarito. When Floyd did go on to easily beat Mosley, after it he was "washed up".
Cotto was ringside for the Gatti annihilation in 2005, and Bob Arum would not allow him to even be mentioned as a possible opponent for Floyd. Even more so when Floyd bought himself out of his contract with Arum and neither wanted any business with each other. (Notice how quickly the Cotto fight got made when he left Arum, it was weeks).
And that leads nicely on to the Pacquiao fiasco which i think none of us want to even think about going over again.

Floyd dodged Margarito and to a certain extent Paul Williams. But certainly Margarito, when he took Baldomir instead. But you know what would have happened if he took the Margarito fight instead of Baldomir? "He dodged Baldomir, 8 year unbeaten run!".

Pretty Boy Floyd avoided nobody though, every single interview he gave he was calling out De La Hoya, Mosley, Kosta Tszyu, Freitas, Casamayor, Hatton. It was when he became the actual PPV money earning machine that he turned into a frustratingly inactive selective fighter. Pretty Boy was the opposite.

hbhook wrote: »

He's not a businessman, he's a BUSINESS man!

Also, Doug Fischer has some interesting thoughts on Margz and his loaded gloves. He reckons that if it was something that had been done more than once or if the powers that be knew that Margarito was complicit then more would've been done about it. Bans, fines even jail. Then again..this is boxing..

I don't name drop these writers because I think they're infallible. I'm just letting ye know where I'm getting my info.

Doug Fischer is a heavily biased writer in the sport of boxing, see Steve Kim too. Not to be ignored completely, but definitely not to be trusted.

I can't argue or discuss MW before Hatton because I wasn't watching. I only know about Margarito etc around 2006-2008 because I've seen it put forward so many times. The not doing business with Top Rank/Cotto works for the Pacquiao story as well though.
Personally, I've always thought that maybe just maybe, Mosley got lucky with Margz. I mean, Tony's head could not have been in that fight that night. Then again I've never heard anyone say that so what do I know?

I suppose also that Bob Arum knew exactly what he was doing putting forward Margarito and not Cotto at the time. It's such bull**** really. The business of boxing.

hbhook wrote: »

I can't argue or discuss MW before Hatton because I wasn't watching. I only know about Margarito etc around 2006-2008 because I've seen it put forward so many times. The not doing business with Top Rank/Cotto works for the Pacquiao story as well though.
Personally, I've always thought that maybe just maybe, Mosley got lucky with Margz. I mean, Tony's head could not have been in that fight that night. Then again I've never heard anyone say that so what do I know?

In 2006 Margarito was the WBO champ and Baldomir the WBC. Floyd was going to earn $8million to fight either one of them, he took Baldomir mainly because he knew it was a no risk fight that would lead him into the superfight against Oscar in 2007. (Just got a flashback of Oscar getting the decision over Felix Sturm in what was one of the worst judging i've ever seen, he was beaten that night without a shadow of a doubt but got the decision because of the megafight that lay ahead)

Edit: I think the Oscar/Sturm fight was earlier actually, setting him the Oscar/B-Hop showdown and not Floyd.

I was a huge fan of Margarito, a true bad guy that i think the sport always needs (not the loading of gloves however:D) but Mosley was just fantastic that night, as he was against Cotto just before it, that was a really really close fight that I think i gave Shane the nod in at the time. Its funny how time changes peoples tune though, because for example that was Cotto in his prime, but Shane was finished etc

gilmour wrote: »

In 2006 Margarito was the WBO champ and Baldomir the WBC. Floyd was going to earn $8million to fight either one of them, he took Baldomir mainly because he knew it was a no risk fight that would lead him into the superfight against Oscar in 2007. (Just got a flashback of Oscar getting the decision over Felix Sturm in what was one of the worst judging i've ever seen, he was beaten that night without a shadow of a doubt but got the decision because of the megafight that lay ahead)

Edit: I think the Oscar/Sturm fight was earlier actually, setting him the Oscar/B-Hop showdown and not Floyd.

I was a huge fan of Margarito, a true bad guy that i think the sport always needs (not the loading of gloves however:D) but Mosley was just fantastic that night, as he was against Cotto just before it, that was a really really close fight that I think i gave Shane the nod in at the time. Its funny how time changes peoples tune though, because for example that was Cotto in his prime, but Shane was finished etc

I watched ODLH vs Sturm the other day! Oscar couldn't lose that night!! Wasn't Mosley at WW in the early 2000s when Floyd was at FW? I'm not arguing here with you by the way.

I've heard that about D. Fischer before but I don't think his loaded gloves view comes into that.
I was also under the impression that MW turned down a career high payday for Baldomir. Which I also watched recently.Ugh..Floyd did injure his hand though.

My moderator sense is tingling!

snowflaker

Well poll is a landslide so far lol

hbhook wrote: »

I watched ODLH vs Sturm the other day! Oscar couldn't lose that night!! Wasn't Mosley at WW in the early 2000s when Floyd was at FW? I'm not arguing here with you by the way.

I've heard that about D. Fischer before but I don't think his loaded gloves view comes into that.
I was also under the impression that MW turned down a career high payday for Baldomir. Which I also watched recently.Ugh..Floyd did injure his hand though.

My moderator sense is tingling!

Ha don't worry we're not arguing, its good old boxing talk.

Regarding Baldomir, he got exactly the same amount fighting him for the WBC and Ring titles than he would have if he fought big Tony - $8million. At the time i was screaming out for Floyd and Tony but looking back on it i think it would have been pretty similar to the Baldomir fight, Tony was way too slow to handle Floyd. Nonetheless, Floyd did choose to not fight him though.

About Mosley, heres a clip of when Floyd brought the idea up in 2005....i think this was after Floyds fight against Henry Bruseles at 140 in Jan 2005

gilmour wrote: »

Ha don't worry we're not arguing, its good old boxing talk.

Regarding Baldomir, he got exactly the same amount fighting him for the WBC and Ring titles than he would have if he fought big Tony - $8million. At the time i was screaming out for Floyd and Tony but looking back on it i think it would have been pretty similar to the Baldomir fight, Tony was way too slow to handle Floyd. Nonetheless, Floyd did choose to not fight him though.

About Mosley, heres a clip of when Floyd brought the idea up in 2005....i think this was after Floyds fight against Henry Bruseles at 140 in Jan 2005

That's the first time I've seen that and the tooth thing! What fight is Mosley after completing there? Definitely sounds like he wants Margarito to soften Floyd up first. Which I absolutely think he would have in a big way. Is Larry saying at the end there that if he doesn't take the MW fight 'now' he may be interfering with ODLH's plan to fight MW or Mosley the year after?

If it's before Mosley and ODLH fought their both at 154.

See, this is the thing for me from what I know of Gatti anyway. He fights Gatti instead of Tszyu or Freitas. Admittedly I know **** all about the latter two. I only just watched Freitas for the first time the other day. I freely admit it's mostly Doug F that mentions him avoiding those two and he makes no secret of his dislike for WW Mayweather.

hbhook wrote: »

That's the first time I've seen that and the tooth thing! What fight is Mosley after completing there? Definitely sounds like he wants Margarito to soften Floyd up first. Which I absolutely think he would have in a big way. Is Larry saying at the end there that if he doesn't take the MW fight 'now' he may be interfering with ODLH's plan to fight MW or Mosley the year after?

If it's before Mosley and ODLH fought their both at 154.

See, this is the thing for me from what I know of Gatti anyway. He fights Gatti instead of Tszyu or Freitas. Admittedly I know **** all about the latter two. I only just watched Freitas for the first time the other day. I freely admit it's mostly Doug F that mentions him avoiding those two and he makes no secret of his dislike for WW Mayweather.

Thats after Shane knocked out Fernando Vargas in 2006, so Merchant was referring to the talk at the time that there was a potential match up between De La Hoya and Mayweather in the mix.
The Freitas/Casamayor "dodges" are always brought up by Fischer, and yeah he and Steve Kim hate Mayweather as much as Larry Merchant always has. The facts were that at the time Mayweather was at 130 he repeatedly was calling them and Prince Naseem out, but Naseem got done by Barrera and then Freitas and Casamayor always seemed to end up fighting anyone else but Floyd. Yet it was Floyd who was getting heat over not fighting them and instead taking on Corrales, Chavez and eventually moving up in weight to fight Castillo.

The funny thing is Floyd was been hounded by the general public to fight Gatti, that he wouldn't have the balls to, especially after the two Castillo fights. Now most commentators were in agreement that it would not be a good fight for Gatti but the public was screaming out for it, which led to Floyds first PPV and his most vicious performance.
Kosta Tszyu was plauged with injuries for nearly 2 years if i recall correctly after beating Judah which made it hard to get any fight with him.

Ok I get you. So slow-mo Merchant is implying that Oscar could be blocking that potential fight as Floyd has a fight (Baldomir) in Nov 06' locked up (potentially) and the DLH fight after? That's what I'm getting anyway.

As I said I can't really comment on this but I'll say that many who followed boxing around that time might say that Floyd always ended up fighting anyone but Tszyu and Freitas. ;-) He WAS vicious against Corrales and Gatti.

I've heard Corrales was weight-drained. Sure there's always something. ODLH was drained against Pac.

What I'm realising is that Mosley was always at a higher weight to Floyd until he came back down after the second Vargas fight. For the money I guess. MW's DLH fight was the passing of the PPV/money torch as was the DLH/Pac fight. I'm tired dude. I might have to come back to this tomorrow.