FrancieBrady wrote: » A Little Pony wrote: » They rejected having an act for it. That is "discriminating" against many people who enjoy such a thing. Then you have all the dead bodies. No, they have no problem with an Ulster Scots act if that is neccessary. They (the SDLP and The Alliance) want a previous agreement on an ILA implemented, that is discriminating against no-one. Unless objecting to an agreement not being met is 'discriminating'?
A Little Pony wrote: » They rejected having an act for it. That is "discriminating" against many people who enjoy such a thing. Then you have all the dead bodies.
FrancieBrady wrote: » You cannot point to one post of yours that singles out the DUP for criticism, yet the record shows they are the ONLY party repeatedly engaging in religious discrimination and cultural bigotry (see the evidence of that posted already in this thread) They are simply NOT all the same and it is time that people who claim that they are, are stood up to. With the facts.
A Little Pony wrote: » That is just unbelievable mental gymnastics. Joint authority isn't happening, as shown by the links. You have some crazed idea that Dublin would govern NI when that is just fanciful nonsense. The British government might discuss issues regarding Brexit with the Irish state and other such issues but joint authority, no.
blanch152 wrote: » As I said, I am not interested in whether one obnoxious sectarian party is less repugnant than another obnoxious sectarian party. It is like serving me up a choice between cowsh!t and horsesh!t for dinner and asking me which has the better taste.
Irishweather wrote: » A Little Pony wrote: » That is just unbelievable mental gymnastics. Joint authority isn't happening, as shown by the links. You have some crazed idea that Dublin would govern NI when that is just fanciful nonsense. The British government might discuss issues regarding Brexit with the Irish state and other such issues but joint authority, no. United Kingdom or United Ireland is my opinion, no middle ground.
A Little Pony wrote: » Constitutionally NI is part of the UK. So that answers that.
Junkyard Tom wrote: » The northeast of Ireland is currently under UK jurisdiction subject to change as laid out in the GFA.
FrancieBrady wrote: » Still waiting for the 'nationalist' to show a post where he singled out the DUP for criticism. I suppose it is SF's fault that the DUP vote along religiously fundamentalist lines too? Or maybe it's the SDLP's fault that the DUP demean the Irish language in the Executive whenever they get the chance. Or the Alliance's fault when they find one of their offices and reps targeted by leaflets when they back a move towards 'normality'? Still waiting for either of you to list evidence that actually shows 'they are all the same' at blocking rights and reneging on implementing agreements. I have no problem with you not liking/politically differing with SF, what is galling is this repeated claim (without backup) that they are dragging their feet as much as the DUP are. They simply aren't.
blanch152 wrote: » I know you care passionately that SF should not be seen as being as bad as the DUP but to rational outsiders it is a pointless debate. I am not saying "they are all the same", rather I am saying that they are both obnoxious sectarian parties. At this point in time, perhaps the DUP are worse, then again they are not selling sectarian terrorist badges on their website. However, when Birmingham, Brighton and Canary Wharf were being bombed, SF were definitely worse. Overall, where is the balance between the two? Who knows and who cares? Only certain Republicans it seems.
FrancieBrady wrote: » Suffice to say that you know your posting record as a 'nationalist' and that record has never shown you criticising the DUP on their own. That is pretty extraordinary for a nationalist imo given the record of the DUP. Your latest suggestion is that nationalists should barter/swap/sell the right to an already agreed act to get rights for the LGBT community that are available elsewhere, just to keep the religiously fundamentalist, culturally bigoted, nationalist hating DUP happy. Hmmmm.
jm08 wrote: » I'd say the Dublin & Monaghan bombings probably balanced them out.
blanch152 wrote: » You are putting words in my mouth again. I outlined a path for Sinn Fein to rise above sectarianism and appeal to both sides of the divide in Northern Ireland and you see fit to denigrate it and twist my words. Suffice to say that is all I expected from "republicans" in response to the suggestion. As to your views of my nationalism, the southern Irish constitutional nationalists have long been derided by the extreme republicans. That is only to be expected but it doesn't make that view of the world any less true.
blanch152 wrote: » If I included Guildford, Brighton, Jean McConville, Omagh, Mairia Cahill and many many others on my list, the balance would have been very clear.
jm08 wrote: » I commented in the first place, because it seems rather odd that you seemed unaware of the first and biggest atrocity of the Troubles (with no warning) which was committed by Loyalist paramilitaries whom the DUP are in bed with and who never get any criticism for their loyalist paramilitary support. The DUP are no better or no worse than Sinn Fein.
blanch152 wrote: » I would have the current DUP as being slightly worse than the current SF, but overall over the last 50 years or so, you can't separate them.
FrancieBrady wrote: » You have been asked to list out actions by the current SF party that is anywhere near as bad as the DUP. Or any other party that are trying to normalise society in northern Ireland. A list like the one I presented that shows a party blocking ordinary rights on religious grounds or blocking previously agreed cultural measures that are designed to give parity of esteem. A core tenet of the GFA. Otherwise you are just talking from a deeply prejudiced bolthole.
tomwaterford wrote: » A Little Pony wrote: » Stormont is not coming back unless Ulster Scots and Irish language are put together in a language package, but really the system is flawed and has been doomed to fail from the start. Ya....of course power sharing with nationalistsruns completely against unionist principles Interesting you not language package.....and have accepted that Irish will be getting it's own act?? But your buring your head in the sand in relation to no longer holding a majority in stormont??Looks increasing likely unionists dont want to share power...in the new reality
A Little Pony wrote: » Stormont is not coming back unless Ulster Scots and Irish language are put together in a language package, but really the system is flawed and has been doomed to fail from the start.
blanch152 wrote: » FrancieBrady wrote: » Still waiting for the 'nationalist' to show a post where he singled out the DUP for criticism. I suppose it is SF's fault that the DUP vote along religiously fundamentalist lines too? Or maybe it's the SDLP's fault that the DUP demean the Irish language in the Executive whenever they get the chance. Or the Alliance's fault when they find one of their offices and reps targeted by leaflets when they back a move towards 'normality'? Still waiting for either of you to list evidence that actually shows 'they are all the same' at blocking rights and reneging on implementing agreements. I have no problem with you not liking/politically differing with SF, what is galling is this repeated claim (without backup) that they are dragging their feet as much as the DUP are. They simply aren't. I know you care passionately that SF should not be seen as being as bad as the DUP but to rational outsiders it is a pointless debate. I am not saying "they are all the same", rather I am saying that they are both obnoxious sectarian parties. At this point in time, perhaps the DUP are worse, then again they are not selling sectarian terrorist badges on their website. However, when Birmingham, Brighton and Canary Wharf were being bombed, SF were definitely worse. Overall, where is the balance between the two? Who knows and who cares? Only certain Republicans it seems.
The Golden Miller wrote: » FrancieBrady wrote: » You have been asked to list out actions by the current SF party that is anywhere near as bad as the DUP. Or any other party that are trying to normalise society in northern Ireland. A list like the one I presented that shows a party blocking ordinary rights on religious grounds or blocking previously agreed cultural measures that are designed to give parity of esteem. A core tenet of the GFA. Otherwise you are just talking from a deeply prejudiced bolthole. Indeed, you push him into a corner and the true mask slips. Not for the first time with this poster. Point blank refusing to address the points and runs back to talking about events 20 years ago or more, completely irrelevant to current topics. Constitutional nationalist just means a partitionist/southern unionist in most cases i.e they think labeling themselves a "nationalist" lends more credibility to their argument while always finding a reason to oppose a united Ireland. They constantly attack and focus all blame on SF while shouting the loudest about progress and peace, yet when the mask slips want nothing more than to drag up the past at every turn to push their anti-SF agenda, with no intention of moving forward. But why would they want to move forward, when they can revel in the bitterness and divide of the north from a completely insulated position, and use it to push this agenda? Who cares about real lives in the effected area when they can play these little games? I at least have a level of respect for unionists in the north, they nail their colours to the mast, this other lot just try and spread their hate-filled anti-nationalist, anti-SF bile from behind the pretense of being a "constitutional nationalist" likes cowards. Can't even man up and acknowledge what they are. Can't even criticise the DUP unless called out on it
The Golden Miller wrote: » Indeed, you push him into a corner and the true mask slips. Not for the first time with this poster. Point blank refusing to address the points and runs back to talking about events 20 years ago or more, completely irrelevant to current topics. Constitutional nationalist just means a partitionist/southern unionist in most cases i.e they think labeling themselves a "nationalist" lends more credibility to their argument while always finding a reason to oppose a united Ireland. They constantly attack and focus all blame on SF while shouting the loudest about progress and peace, yet when the mask slips want nothing more than to drag up the past at every turn to push their anti-SF agenda, with no intention of moving forward. But why would they want to move forward, when they can revel in the bitterness and divide of the north from a completely insulated position, and use it to push this agenda? Who cares about real lives in the effected area when they can play these little games? I at least have a level of respect for unionists in the north, they nail their colours to the mast, this other lot just try and spread their hate-filled anti-nationalist, anti-SF bile from behind the pretense of being a "constitutional nationalist" likes cowards. Can't even man up and acknowledge what they are. Can't even criticise the DUP unless called out on it
blanch152 wrote: » Having read your posts, I can only conclude that the practice of attacking other posters' motivations is a handy way of avoiding discussing the issues. My views are genuine and realistic, reflecting the views of the majority of people in the South who refuse to vote for Sinn Fein because of what they are and what they were. That doesn't make me any less of a nationalist who aspires and hopes for a united Ireland, but one who acknowledges the realities recognised in the GFA that the majority of people in Northern Ireland wish to remain part of the UK.
You have been asked to list out actions by the current SF party that is anywhere near as bad as the DUP. Or any other party that are trying to normalise society in northern Ireland. A list like the one I presented that shows a party blocking ordinary rights on religious grounds or blocking previously agreed cultural measures that are designed to give parity of esteem. A core tenet of the GFA.
FrancieBrady wrote: » You'll have no problem dealing with what you were asked so.
The Golden Miller wrote: » The only one who has continually avoided answering direct questions is yourself. Always looking at every and any issue from the point of view of what SF/the nationalist side in the north do wrong isn't being genuine, realistic or objective. This can been seen by the fact you have yet to criticise the DUP or unionisnts without being called out on it or without the "both sides are as bad as each other" rhetoric tagged on at the end. Interesting how you never feel the need to do the same when criticising SF. If you were a nationalist you would, on occasion at the very least, make some points on what is the best and most pragmatic way to make a united Ireland work. Nationalists don't tend to go out of their way to try and find every reason to oppose it in hypothetical debates
blanch152 wrote: » There is nobody on here defending the DUP's religious bigotry, misogyny or homophobia. However, it is interesting that the main thing being raised by nationalists on here is the Irish Language Act, mirroring SF's major concern out in the real world. A real gamechanger for SF would be to back down on the Irish Language Act issue, accepting a Minority Languages Act instead, but in return insisted on same sex-marriage legalisation and adoption of UK abortion law. Now that would show they are interested in all the citizens of Northern Ireland rather than their own little patch. Given the outrage that suggestion will create on here, I hold out little hope of it making it.
blanch152 wrote: » Please see below an earlier post of mine in this thread that comprehensively addresses the issues you have raised.
blanch152 wrote: » I answered that question clearly and comprehensively. I also said before that I have little interest in debating which of the failed Northern Ireland parties is slightly less of a failure than the other. I consider the question you raised of which is the worse than the other answered - it depends on your timeframe of reference. You obviously wish to pick a very short timeframe, others wouldn't be so generous. That means no disrespect to you, it just means the answer varies depending on your perspective.
The Golden Miller wrote: » The only one who has continually avoided answering direct questions is yourself. Always looking at every and any issue from the point of view of what SF/the nationalist side in the north do wrong isn't being genuine, realistic or objective. This can been seen by the fact you have yet to criticise the DUP or unionisnts without being called out on it or without the "both sides are as bad as each other" rhetoric tagged on at the end.
Jep Gambardella wrote: » It's all getting very personal. Debate the issue at hand and less of the digs. Any more of this "you're the kind of poster who...." and there'll be cards.
