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Season 7 Episode 3 "The Queen's Justice" - "Book readers"

Nody

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leggo

awec wrote: »

I forgot the Jon Lyanna thing was a Bran vision.

If he tells them that who is going to believe him though?

The whole 'I can tell you things that only you know about' trick is a pretty convincing one to be fair.

CMOTDibbler

leggo wrote: »

The whole 'I can tell you things that only you know about' trick is a pretty convincing one to be fair.

And he's been doing that since he came south of the wall. Telling Dolorous Edd where he's been and Sansa about her night to forget.

awec

The fate of the sand snakes, I wonder if that's a contrived way of eventually getting Ellaria rescued?

Or do folks reckon that's it for her?

Seemed like a big risk for Cersei to take too, putting the poison on her lips when they have no idea how long it takes to kill each individual person. Kind of unnecessary really.

SparklersJo

leggo wrote: »

The whole 'I can tell you things that only you know about' trick is a pretty convincing one to be fair.

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

And he's been doing that since he came south of the wall. Telling Dolorous Edd where he's been and Sansa about her night to forget.

And I'm sure it'll be conveniently corroborated at the same time by a raven from Sam who will find something to confirm it in those old scrolls in the citadel

J. Marston

awec wrote: »

The fate of the sand snakes, I wonder if that's a contrived way of eventually getting Ellaria rescued?

Or do folks reckon that's it for her?

Seemed like a big risk for Cersei to take too, putting the poison on her lips when they have no idea how long it takes to kill each individual person. Kind of unnecessary really.

Suppose she might be used as a hostage when Dany attacks King's Landing but I'd say she's finished now. Left to rot in the cells or worse, be one of Qyburn's experiments.

On the poison, dramatic effect for the show I guess. But still, I'm sure Qyburn knows a lot about poisons and their effects so she was safe enough.

podgemonster

Wonderful episode tonight, some historic meetups and reunions, sharp words and fond farewells.

Jaime and Cersei combined are the almost as cunning, saive and ruthless as Tywin. Jaime wins over Tarly, takes the richest kingdom in Westoros and temporaily sacrifices the Rock. Fabulous play, Dany's only victory so far but completely worthless and has cost her dearly with nothing to be gained. How things have changed from Ep1 is marvellous, even Jaime would agree they have a chance. The Unsullied are isolated, Dorne and Yara stopped and Highgarden usurped. Part of me wonders if Cersei's will get complacent and decide not to pay off the Bravosii.

The Queen's justice is much more fitting then what I thought it would be. She knows that the pain of a mother losing an innocent daughter is worse that any blade, poison or whip. She leaves Ellaryia to suffer heartbreak forever.

Brans return to Winterfell was somewhat rushed and his character is almost devoid of emotion. He subtly reminds Sansa of what Littlefinger indirectly did by handing her to the Boltons and what other lies he may tell her or others. LF concern when Sansa asked the maister to reviews Maester Luwins records was also interesting.

Star of the show, Queen of Thorns. Despite the bodies of Highgarden men lying dead around her its the Kingslayer that's floored in the castle tower by words. In one conversation she has driven a wedge through Cersei and Jaime once again revealing vindicating Tyrion as reminding Jaime what a poison Cersei is.

I find Dany being quite painful in a number of scenes with Emilia Clarkes acting quite wooden. Kit is quite the opposite, uncomfortable, awkward, modest, longing to finish this parlnd get back to the real business. No more interest in the Game of Thrones than the Night King.

Speaking of which we only saw a snippet of him in Ep1, we now go into the halfway point of the series and still very little coverage of the North of the Wall.

[Deleted User]

I wonder will Dany be reluctant to join Jon if she finds out that he literally rose from the dead himself

rawn

podgemonster wrote:

I find Dany being quite painful in a number of scenes with Emilia Clarkes acting quite wooden. Kit is quite the opposite, uncomfortable, awkward, modest, longing to finish this parlnd get back to the real business. No more interest in the Game of Thrones than the Night King.

I think she does well, she comes across as regal in composure and delivers her words with power and conviction. I think it suits her characters new role in the show as I think she will be more ruthless and cold, and will make decisions that in the past she would never have made. She's hardening herself.

CMOTDibbler

rawn wrote: »

I think she does well, she comes across as regal in composure and delivers her words with power and conviction. I think it suits her characters new role in the show as I think she will be more ruthless and cold, and will make decisions that in the past she would never have made. She's hardening herself.

+1

It started with her pressing Varys to reveal his loyalties and she's continued in that vein. Some small but telling lines like when Jon asked was he a prisoner and she replying "not yet". She gives nothing away about how she's thinking, just pushing others to reveal what they want. Allowing Jon to mine the dragonglass cost her nothing except a few men, but it has Jon in her debt.

Interesting how she latched on to Davos' comment about the 'knife in the heart'. I suspect that question will be asked more directly.

podgemonster

rawn wrote: »

I think she does well, she comes across as regal in composure and delivers her words with power and conviction. I think it suits her characters new role in the show as I think she will be more ruthless and cold, and will make decisions that in the past she would never have made. She's hardening herself.

I don't question the dialogue given to Dany, its fine, but Clarkes delivery lacks complexity.

She no doubt been directed to be more stern, composed and regal but she's the Mother of Dragons not an Ice Queen. Every order, every move has come from Tyrion, we know her past, this "New Role" is just that she's on the offence for a change, its still the Dany we've watch for 6 seasons. She's unsure of what to do and everything so far has gone against her yet we see no vulnerability in the performance, no doubt, no frustration, she remains passive, still, no spark.

Dinklage, Cunningham and Harrington are out acting her in every scene.

Savage Tyrant

I don't get the criticism of Emilia Clarke's acting. I genuinely think she's great in the part and I like her scenes and delivery. I enjoyed the scenes with Jon, Davos and Tyrion.
Bran and Sansa scenes were flat. Little emotion if any. Just not enjoyable.
Lady Olenna bosses every scene she's in.
Sam's scenes are still boring, but the lack of Gilly helps somewhat.
The play to take Highgarden while letting Casterly Rock fall, but in an unsustainable position was brilliant. I'm disappointed I won't learn that. For the first time in the books. I'm sure it'll be brilliantly played in the books.
I though Ellaria was going to have her head popped by the Mountain, then I assumed her daughter was for that fate instead.... The actual punishment Cersei settled on was genius. The first time I've felt proper emotion in any scene involving the Dornish so far. The thoughts of living out your days a few feet from the rotting corpse of your child? That's harrowing.
Overall an enjoyable episode.

Baggly

Think of all Bran and Sansa have been through since they have been apart and (in terms of their family) alone.

I should imagine i would be quite distant and emotionless if i had gone through either of their ordeals (nevermind if i found out i was a time travelling mind wizard).

awec

Arya the only remaining Stark who hasn't regrouped yet then? On current timelines you'd imagine that has to happen next week.

I wonder how long before word reaches Cersei that there are more Starks back in Winterfell.

[Deleted User]

Have been critical of Clarke's acting in the past but have been impressed this season. Less shouty scenes though which I think she struggles with.

Where are the armies? Does Dorne not have a land army now? Highgarden must have had a lot of troops too. Are they all gone now that the heads on the family are captured or dead? The whole destroying a family a week shtick is spreading themselves quite thin.

The plot contrivances are starting to rack up and with what should be weeks passing by in the space of an episode where they are not checking in with all of the characters creates a lot of plot holes. Are we to believe that in the time it took Euron Greyjoy to find and destroy the fleet last week, get to kings Landing, sail around Dorne(?!) and get to Casterly rock that the BwB or Arya haven't made it to Winterfell? It's all just a show of set pieces at this stage really which is fine but a little disappointing how rushed everything is becoming.

leggo

Liam O wrote: »

Where are the armies? Does Dorne not have a land army now? Highgarden must have had a lot of troops too. Are they all gone now that the heads on the family are captured or dead?

Once their rulers have been killed, either the heads of the armies remaining loyal to their old lords etc would be killed themselves and the rest would get in line under the new rule. In this case, Randyll will have taken over. So it's get with the programme with him or die. In theory, someone else could gather the troops and rally them around another cause, but who is there left?

As for Dorne, in the vacuum left by Oberyn's death and Ellaria's capture, it's reasonable to assume there's now a power struggle involving people with the best claim to rule. But this likely won't be relevant to the main story because, in truth, whenever the war is over either the winning side will get in line or Dany/Cersei will just install someone loyal to their cause as leader there.

CMOTDibbler

Liam O wrote: »

Have been critical of Clarke's acting in the past but have been impressed this season. Less shouty scenes though which I think she struggles with.

Where are the armies? Does Dorne not have a land army now? Highgarden must have had a lot of troops too. Are they all gone now that the heads on the family are captured or dead? The whole destroying a family a week shtick is spreading themselves quite thin.

The plot contrivances are starting to rack up and with what should be weeks passing by in the space of an episode where they are not checking in with all of the characters creates a lot of plot holes. Are we to believe that in the time it took Euron Greyjoy to find and destroy the fleet last week, get to kings Landing, sail around Dorne(?!) and get to Casterly rock that the BwB or Arya haven't made it to Winterfell? It's all just a show of set pieces at this stage really which is fine but a little disappointing how rushed everything is becoming.

The writers discussed this issue a couple of years ago. Their problem was trying to carry a narrative in an episode without having a multitude of mini cameos in each one.

Even doing it in the books represented such a challenge that GRRM tried different ways of doing it. AFFC and ADWD were essentially one book but divided along character lines rather than time lines as the previous ones had done.

I'd find it distracting if we had a forced dialogue in each episode where one or more characters are telling us where everybody is or is going to be. Or, worse still, a little snippet of them en route somewhere as they tell us where they're going.

I'm much happier with the light touch they've used, leaving it up to us to figure the timelines. It's not that hard really. And if there's a gap somewhere, it shouldn't really matter. We can assume the travel happened. We don't really need to see it.

[Deleted User]

leggo wrote: »

Once their rulers have been killed, either the heads of the armies remaining loyal to their old lords etc would be killed themselves and the rest would get in line under the new rule. In this case, Randyll will have taken over. So it's get with the programme with him or die. In theory, someone else could gather the troops and rally them around another cause, but who is there left?

As for Dorne, in the vacuum left by Oberyn's death and Ellaria's capture, it's reasonable to assume there's now a power struggle involving people with the best claim to rule. But this likely won't be relevant to the main story because, in truth, whenever the war is over either the winning side will get in line or Dany/Cersei will just install someone loyal to their cause as leader there.

I guess it's a problem you run into when you kill entire families rather than individuals. Grey Worm saying "where are the Lannisters" I thought was funny because as far as anyone is concerned there only seems to be 2 Lannisters left. If Jaime, Cersei and Tyrion bite the dust which isn't out of the question they don't even have a background character to take over now that Kevan and Lancel have both been chopped.

It just takes the scale and complexity out of it. There's not one character who is in power because of succession which is a little bit bonkers.

CMOTDibbler

Liam O wrote: »

I guess it's a problem you run into when you kill entire families rather than individuals. Grey Worm saying "where are the Lannisters" I thought was funny because as far as anyone is concerned there only seems to be 2 Lannisters left. If Jaime, Cersei and Tyrion bite the dust which isn't out of the question they don't even have a background character to take over now that Kevan and Lancel have both been chopped.

It just takes the scale and complexity out of it. There's not one character who is in power because of succession which is a little bit bonkers.

I could be taking you up wrong here, but I thought Grey Worm was referring to the Lannister army rather than family members. He was concerned about the low numbers of troops when he'd been obviously told to expect a much larger garrison.

As for the succession, it would be equally as easy (if it were necessary) to introduce "Cousin Tarwin" or some such if an heir were needed. No explanation necessary. Kevan Lannister didn't appear until he had a part to play.

lawlolawl

The teleporting armies/people and Varys turning into the worst spy ever are making this season rather brainless.

ThunbergsAreGo

Is Dany a bad actress or did she seem like real bitch in this episode?

I hope it's a slow turn for her

bnt

naughtb4 wrote: »

Is Dany a bad actress or did she seem like real bitch in this episode?

Being a queen is a kind of acting job, as we've seen already e.g. the lies and deception Dany had to navigate back in Slaver's Bay without giving the game away. Now she's trying to crack a hard nut - Jon Snow - by testing him to see how much he cares about her claim, trying to figure out what he wants to get him on her side. It didn't quite work, did it? So I think we have a pretty good actress playing a not-so-good actress.

ThunbergsAreGo

awec wrote: »

The fate of the sand snakes, I wonder if that's a contrived way of eventually getting Ellaria rescued?

Or do folks reckon that's it for her?

Seemed like a big risk for Cersei to take too, putting the poison on her lips when they have no idea how long it takes to kill each individual person. Kind ofunnecessary really.

We can only hope she is dead

CMOTDibbler

bnt wrote: »

Being a queen is a kind of acting job, as we've seen already e.g. the lies and deception Dany had to navigate back in Slaver's Bay without giving the game away. Now she's trying to crack a hard nut - Jon Snow - by testing him to see how much he cares about her claim, trying to figure out what he wants to get him on her side. It didn't quite work, did it? So I think we have a pretty good actress playing a not-so-good actress.

Very well put.

duploelabs

naughtb4 wrote: »

Is Dany a bad actress or did she seem like real bitch in this episode?

I hope it's a slow turn for her

She's becoming like Viserys

[Deleted User]

Speaking of Varys, I felt he could have provided both Dany and Jon with a lot of information that could have made their disagreements a bit less tense such as Ned's stance on the poisoning plot especially. He seems to be a lot more out of the loop than he should be in general so interested in whether he's up to something in the background or it is just the writers hoping people forget about his past. I'd be inclined to go for the latter but maybe I should have more faith.

Hans Bricks

I really enjoyed that episode. A lot happened. I'd love if we still had the ten episode season to flesh out the likes of the battle for CR, Naval battles, sack of highgarden etc. , but they have to make do with seven episodes unfortunately. I think they've done a decent job so far although the Missandei and grey worm, prolonged Sam scenes in Oldtown could be chopped for more rewarding scenes.

I think we as viewers have to make up our own minds and find a rational, plausible timeline with regards to the geographic travelling and time jumps. Thinking about it ...

You could argue Euron had left KL and had arrived and was waiting off the Dornish coast for Yara and the sandsnakes by the time Dany and Co. had arrived at Dragonstone.
- Sent his Regal warship (under the command of his second) and the majority of his fleet to take up a tactical position off the coast of the Westerlands to ambush the Unsullied at CR, while he trotted about Kings Landing with his gifts for Cersei.

As a previous poster remarked earlier in this thread, what we saw in that episode was the chess pieces being moved in flashback scenes. Thats the way I look at it anyway. Fills up the "plot holes" and "teleporting" some people accuse the show of.

However I must say .... how in the fuck does Varys "The master of Whispers" not have eyes and ears monitoring the positions of the main Lannister armies in CR, The Reach & the players (Euron, Randyll Tarly) courting Cersei in KL ? All it takes is for one of the little birds to send a raven to Dragonstone like ?

Kiith

Littlefingers turn of the head when the Maester said that the previous Maester kept detailed notes from all previous ravens...guess that's how Littlefinger will find out about Jon's heritage, and use that to (try and) screw him over.

Decent episode overall.

CMOTDibbler

Kiith wrote: »

Littlefingers turn of the head when the Maester said that the previous Maester kept detailed notes from all previous ravens...guess that's how Littlefinger will find out about Jon's heritage, and use that to (try and) screw him over.

Decent episode overall.

I actually thought that was a guilty twitch tbh. I mean Littlefinger presumably sent ravens to the Boltons to set up Sansa's marriage. And possibly other things...

podgemonster

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

I actually thought that was a guilty twitch tbh. I mean Littlefinger presumably sent ravens to the Boltons to set up Sansa's marriage. And possibly other things...

Lysa Ayrn's letter to Cat from Season 1 Episode 1 claiming the Lannisters killed Jon Ayrn comes to mind.

CMOTDibbler

podgemonster wrote: »

Lysa Ayrn's letter to Cat from Season 1 Episode 1 claiming the Lannisters killed Jon Ayrn comes to mind.

Sansa would have known about that though. And it didn't involve Littlefinger.