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Child Item

Mugged Off by Elderly Builder

QuipsforChips

Hi all,
All advice would be very much appreciated. I own a small "2 up, 2 down" mid-terraced red brick house in Dublin 3. It's old and it's small and it's quirky but it's mine and I know how lucky I am to have. One day I was walking by a neighbours house and a builder was outside having a cup of tea and a little rest. We got chatting about the work he was doing and how he loves these little old houses and how he worked on identical ones as a young buck in London way back when. I mentioned that I would love to get a bit of work done and would he be interested in having a look and giving me a quote. He came down to my house, had a look around and measured up a few walls etc. He gave me his business card and said he would be in touch.

About a month later, he called back in and gave me a proper quote which I thought was fair. I had similar quotes done over the years and it was of a similar amount. He assured me that he is very experienced with these old homes and all their quirks. For example there is not a straight line to be found in the house. He wrote up a handwritten contract there and then and we agreed to proceed. He asked for half the money up front which I paid him in cash the following day. He started work with a colleague that next day and for a week all was great. As I was pretty happy to start with, when he asked me for another 700 euro for two vertical tubular radiators, I agreed, I know, I know...... I am an fupping eejit.

That was 11 weeks ago, things have spiralled into a fupping nightmare.
He is basically a no-show. He doesn't return my calls or when he does he makes the most out-rageous excuses. Some of which have included; attending a child's funeral. Discovering a possible melanoma on his ear that needs a biopsy. His accountant has swindled him out of money. Vertigo had him laid up for a week. He needed to attend a health and safety course. Held up plasterer because of the rain...... and it so on and so forth. The house is a mess. Dust everywhere, the front and back gardens are a hazard, with his sh¥te strewn everywhere. He just leaves his tools out in the elements to rust away.

Also there are 3 skip bags perilously full in the front garden. I have asked him to have them removed, it is not possible to balance another object on any of them without causing them to come crashing down. 10 days later they are still there.

I have begged, pleaded, cajoled, and last week threatened him to finish. I am 7 months pregnant with my first child and I feel like my life is on hold while this charlatan turns up while I am at work, moves a few object around and has a cup of tea thinking that will fool me into thinking he has done something useful.......

So I am resigned to the fact I am just going to have to tell him to fupp off, take the hit, get somebody else in to finish his sh¥th workmanship and chalk it down to experience. What is the point of throwing good money after bad by trying to pursue this creep. My question is this, is there any other kind of subtle revenge that I can peruse that won't get me into trouble? I would love to report him to Revenue but I hate the thought of bad Karma?

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SterlingArcher

QuipsforChips wrote: »

Hi all,
All advice would be very much appreciated. I own a small "2 up, 2 down" mid-terraced red brick house in Dublin 3. It's old and it's small and it's quirky but it's mine and I know how lucky I am to have. One day I was walking by a neighbours house and a builder was outside having a cup of tea and a little rest. We got chatting about the work he was doing and how he loves these little old houses and how he worked on identical ones as a young buck in London way back when. I mentioned that I would love to get a bit of work done and would he be interested in having a look and giving me a quote. He came down to my house, had a look around and measured up a few walls etc. He gave me his business card and said he would be in touch.

About a month later, he called back in and gave me a proper quote which I thought was fair. I had similar quotes done over the years and it was of a similar amount. He assured me that he is very experienced with these old homes and all their quirks. For example there is not a straight line to be found in the house. He wrote up a handwritten contract there and then and we agreed to proceed. He asked for half the money up front which I paid him in cash the following day. He started work with a colleague that next day and for a week all was great. As I was pretty happy to start with, when he asked me for another 700 euro for two vertical tubular radiators, I agreed, I know, I know...... I am an fupping eejit.

That was 11 weeks ago, things have spiralled into a fupping nightmare.
He is basically a no-show. He doesn't return my calls or when he does he makes the most out-rageous excuses. Some of which have included; attending a child's funeral. Discovering a possible melanoma on his ear that needs a biopsy. His accountant has swindled him out of money. Vertigo had him laid up for a week. He needed to attend a health and safety course. Held up plasterer because of the rain...... and it so on and so forth. The house is a mess. Dust everywhere, the front and back gardens are a hazard, with his sh¥te strewn everywhere. He just leaves his tools out in the elements to rust away.

Also there are 3 skip bags perilously full in the front garden. I have asked him to have them removed, it is not possible to balance another object on any of them without causing them to come crashing down. 10 days later they are still there.

I have begged, pleaded, cajoled, and last week threatened him to finish. I am 7 months pregnant with my first child and I feel like my life is on hold while this charlatan turns up while I am at work, moves a few object around and has a cup of tea thinking that will fool me into thinking he has done something useful.......

So I am resigned to the fact I am just going to have to tell him to fupp off, take the hit, get somebody else in to finish his sh¥th workmanship and chalk it down to experience. What is the point of throwing good money after bad by trying to pursue this creep. My question is this, is there any other kind of subtle revenge that I can peruse that won't get me into trouble? I would love to report him to Revenue but I hate the thought of bad Karma?

Look you seem decent. the type of person that could not even act out a slight revenge and sleep easy.

You'll only be doing yourself more anxiety.

It sucks it really does. And although you were slightly naive don't beat yourself up this guy is a dick. I'm sure you're not the first.

Regarding the 700 euro for the " vertical tubular radiators " I'm assuming you googled the prices and it all looked good for the exact models in question . And you got them.

QuipsforChips

They were €352.99 in the brochure. I never got them.

SterlingArcher

QuipsforChips wrote: »

They were €352.99 in the brochure. I never got them.

Make an official complaint to the tradesman or builder in writing. Send it by registered mail if neccessary as it provides proof of delivery. Include copies of any contract, receipts, delivery notes, quotations, plans and any other documentation that supports your claim.
Ask for the situation to be corrected (know your rights in this case).
Record a log of all subsequent conversations and correspondence on the matter
If you fail to receive a satisfactory resolution, report the tradesman / builder in question to the relevant regulatory bodies, trade associations and onlinetradesmen.ie if relevant.
If required hire an appropriate professional ( e.g surveyor or engineer) to create a report on the situation to back up your claims.

This is all your course of action. Legally.

Now you said you're pregnant, you shouldn't be stressing about crap like this right now. so perhaps just chalk it and move on.

If you desire.

at least follow the first bit for now. Send the registered letter detailing your dissatisfaction with work carried out so far and the fact you paid for the radiators and not received. And keep copies of any further communication via mail,text, email. I'd try only deal through these methods.

QuipsforChips

Thanks Sterling Archer.

I have the letter typed and ready to go. I have 90% of his excuses and fob offs and my protests saved as texts on my phone. Luckilly texting is his preferred choice of communication. I have the brochure with the rads marked in his writing and a receipt of my withdrawal of the 700 Euro but it doesn't really prove much. I will still persue it though.

muffler

QuipsforChips wrote: »

He gave me his business card and said he would be in touch.

About a month later, he called back in and gave me a proper quote which I thought was fair.

Well at least you have his details which may come in handy at a later date.

QuipsforChips wrote: »

He wrote up a handwritten contract there and then and we agreed to proceed.

Mistake no 1. You should always get a more formal contract prepared and agreed upon which would include your terms and not just his.

QuipsforChips wrote: »

He asked for half the money up front which I paid him in cash the following day.

Mistake no 2. never ever pay up front in these circumstances.

QuipsforChips wrote: »

As I was pretty happy to start with, when he asked me for another 700 euro for two vertical tubular radiators, I agreed

Mistake no 3. As above you should be paying when invoices for work done / materials bought arrive and not up front.

QuipsforChips wrote: »

He just leaves his tools out in the elements to rust away.

If he has any tools laying around then lock them up and use them as a bit of leverage.

QuipsforChips wrote: »

take the hit, get somebody else in to finish his sh¥th workmanship and chalk it down to experience.

May not be so easy. It can be quite difficult at times to get certain tradesmen to finish off work or botched work carried out by others.

QuipsforChips wrote: »

My question is this, is there any other kind of subtle revenge that I can peruse that won't get me into trouble? I would love to report him to Revenue but I hate the thought of bad Karma?

I dont think you need to go down the revenge route as all you really want is what you paid for.

As stated you dont need the stress but as suggested above and as you are considering then do document everything and send a letter by registered post. Keep a copy of that letter obviously. Detail what is needed to complete and put a completion date on it. Keep it as civil as possible and see what happens.

let us know how you get on

SEPT 23 1989

How much money did you hand over?

sky6

You could take him to small claims court. Or at least threaten him too. he may not want that as I believe Revenue monitor all commercial court proceedings to catch unregistered business.

the_pen_turner

muffler wrote: »

Well at least you have his details which may come in handy at a later date.

Mistake no 1. You should always get a more formal contract prepared and agreed upon which would include your terms and not just his.

Mistake no 2. never ever pay up front in these circumstances.
why not , most tradesmen will only work with money up front. its only to stop dodgy customers

Mistake no 3. As above you should be paying when invoices for work done / materials bought arrive and not up front.
I don't agree. I wont orders lots of materials until I have them paid for from the customer. especially anything that has to be ordered specially

If he has any tools laying around then lock them up and use them as a bit of leverage.
put them in your shed to stop them being taken but using them as leverage will only get you in trouble with the law

May not be so easy. It can be quite difficult at times to get certain tradesmen to finish off work or botched work carried out by others.
unfortunately a lot of tradesmen wont touch it unless he has only stated and not covered in anything. I worked for a guy that did a job that went like this. we had to strip all the plasterboards off the nearly finished house so that it could be inspected so that the insurance would cover any work done.

I dont think you need to go down the revenge route as all you really want is what you paid for.

As stated you dont need the stress but as suggested above and as you are considering then do document everything and send a letter by registered post. Keep a copy of that letter obviously. Detail what is needed to complete and put a completion date on it. Keep it as civil as possible and see what happens.

let us know how you get on

unfortunately there isn't a lot you can do only fire him and ty to get your money back.

Right2Write

What about the neighbour you mention? Did he supply and finish the work there satisfactorily? I'd go and have a chat there as well, might give you more insight into whether he is reliable or not. Small businesses like this often get work based on word of mouth, so unless he's a complete charlatan things may not be as bad as you think.

QuipsforChips

Thanks for all the replies.
Little bit of progress. I got my partner to ring the builder last night. I have been doing all the dealings with him up until this point as it's my house and the renovations were my idea..... Plus I hadn't told him that I had paid the builder 3,000 grand plus the 700 for the rads upfront. But I came clean last night. Anyway he took it pretty well and although he is the most laid back (some would say lazy) unconfrontational man I have ever known, he decided enough was enough. He used my phone and low and behold the builder actually answered and didn't hang up.
My partner calmly and patiently reiterated the point of it being 70 days since the job was started, no sign of radiators and poor substandard workmanship, how I was stressed out etc. The builder just exploded, he was like a cornered rat on the defensive, my partner held the phone at arms length while he went on his tirade.
He started going on about costs of materials, and guys letting him down on other jobs. Eventually when he stopped shouting, he said he wasn't trying to rip anyone off and would finish the job this week.
I am pretty doubtful of this plus I definitely don't want to be in the house when he there now. I looked up materials on Woodies.ie and B&Q.ie and the exact wood panelling and skirting and beading that he has used so far range in prices of a fiver to €16 for 2.4 metres. Seriously I am such an eejit!!!!!!
I have the registered letter and small claims court application page at the ready. Will call into my neighbour tonight. Hard lesson to learn. But I was very ageist in my assessment of him to begin with. I though ah a nice older buck, must be pretty skilled with all those wrinkles. He is a mean bastard. Also there are quite a lot of those little green bookie pens floating around the gaf. Maybe he is in debt up to his eyeballs?

the_pen_turner

What's the significance of the skirting prices.
Is he claiming higher prices

QuipsforChips

Just that when my partner was making the point about giving him so much money upfront and then he strings us along for so along with excuse after excuse, he lost the plot and started shouting about materials. But the materials he has used so far have been a paltry price.

the_pen_turner

That OK . I thought I missed part of the storey.

Tom44

Consumer rights, look up link

https://www.ccpc.ie/consumers/?gclid=Cj0KCQjw--DLBRCNARIsAFIwR245kycVgK0v4udIEOZmn7hyQA2R_ZPfWbnMo5M3L5T3vLjVg2MpjwQaAhQgEALw_wcB

antiskeptic

Have you got any proof that you paid him any money? If you have and you've figured he ain't coming back willingly then you could talk to him about reporting him to Revenue. He could be on the dole, he might not be paying taxes. Revenue would put the frighteners on someone 1000x what any small claims court could do.

If you've no proof of giving him money, I don't see how a small claims is going to work.

QuipsforChips

I reported him to Revenue. I came home from work yesterday to find he had shown up alright but merely moved a few things round and then legged it. Nothing from my list done/redone. I spent the next 3 hours with my partner sanding the skirting boards and plaster work around pipes for yet to be fitted radiators. The skips are still out front. He filled in a few screw fix holes with filler (filler which I had to go out and buy) but not all of them..... and I just thought Fu*k it..... we had to work hard to earn 12 grand to have the 6 grand to pay this absolute Cretan...... he mugs us off, and definitely doesn't declare. I just hope revenue actually chase it up.

muffler

QuipsforChips wrote: »

I reported him to Revenue. I came home from work yesterday to find he had shown up alright but merely moved a few things round and then legged it. Nothing from my list done/redone. I spent the next 3 hours with my partner sanding the skirting boards and plaster work around pipes for yet to be fitted radiators. The skips are still out front. He filled in a few screw fix holes with filler (filler which I had to go out and buy) but not all of them..... and I just thought Fu*k it..... we had to work hard to earn 12 grand to have the 6 grand to pay this absolute Cretan...... he mugs us off, and definitely doesn't declare. I just hope revenue actually chase it up.

I think that was a poor decision in reporting him to revenue. Whatever chance you had of getting him to come back and complete the works or get some of your money back is well and truly gone now.

But as you stated in your first post you were after revenge so it obviously comes at a price.

emeldc

muffler wrote: »

I think that was a poor decision in reporting him to revenue. Whatever chance you had of getting him to come back and complete the works or get some of your money back is well and truly gone now.

But as you stated in your first post you were after revenge so it obviously comes at a price.

Fcuk 'im. How many opportunities does he need to remove the skips and do some work. And where are the rads? The OP's money is gone. He's a cowboy. I wouldn't have him back near the place.
Sorry for your troubles OP. Good luck with the baby

muffler

emeldc wrote: »

Fcuk 'im. How many opportunities does he need to remove the skips and do some work. And where are the rads? The OP's money is gone. He's a cowboy. I wouldn't have him back near the place.

Ordinarily I would agree but in this instance it is now clear that the OP was (as she stated in her OP) looking for revenge methods rather than trying to find a possible solution that may (or may not) have got some or all of the work completed or perhaps some money back. Obviously revenge was more important than the money.

[Deleted User]

QuipsforChips wrote:

I reported him to Revenue. I came home from work yesterday to find he had shown up alright but merely moved a few things round and then legged it. Nothing from my list done/redone. I spent the next 3 hours with my partner sanding the skirting boards and plaster work around pipes for yet to be fitted radiators. The skips are still out front. He filled in a few screw fix holes with filler (filler which I had to go out and buy) but not all of them..... and I just thought Fu*k it..... we had to work hard to earn 12 grand to have the 6 grand to pay this absolute Cretan...... he mugs us off, and definitely doesn't declare. I just hope revenue actually chase it up.

He has up to two years to file a return for this job. Moaning to the revenue is a little premature. You've probably blown away any chance of dialogue. Not saying he's not in the wrong but there are better Ways of dealing with issues like this

my3cents

Sleeper12 wrote: »

He has up to two years to file a return for this job. Moaning to the revenue is a little premature. You've probably blown away any chance of dialogue. Not saying he's not in the wrong but there are better Ways of dealing with issues like this

Revenue won't tell the builder who reported them, they may say nothing at all and just to a "random" audit.

[Deleted User]

my3cents wrote:

Revenue won't tell the builder who reported them, they may say nothing at all and just to a "random" audit.

I get that but it won't get the work done. It might have the opposite effect that op might desire. Dialogue is usually the best option

muffler

my3cents wrote: »

Revenue won't tell the builder who reported them, they may say nothing at all and just to a "random" audit.

But he has until October 2018 to send in the accounts for this year so I dont think he needs to be a rocket scientist to figure it all out if he is contacted by Revenue. In any event they, revenue, cant question him on any payments recently received.

Apart from all that this thread also raises the question of the willing participation in the black economy and in doing so the attempt to defraud the exchequer. There's a certain irony in all of this.

Just stating the obvious and without any intentions of offending anyone.

[Deleted User]

Easy to pop in now and say twas the wrong thing to do. Ye must have missed all the parts where he's been asked on several occasions to make good his work.there wasn't any magic solution coming out of this fella.

emeldc

muffler wrote: »

But he has until October 2018 to send in the accounts for this year so I dont think he needs to be a rocket scientist to figure it all out if he is contacted by Revenue. In any event they, revenue, cant question him on any payments recently received.

Apart from all that this thread also raises the question of the willing participation in the black economy and in doing so the attempt to defraud the exchequer. There's a certain irony in all of this.

Just stating the obvious and without any intentions of offending anyone.

I think you'll find they can. They walked in off the street in to my shop and asked to see that day's till roll and last weeks receipts. The builder should be keeping a 'daily' book to keep track of payments received and from whom. How else could he put them together at the end of the year.

K.Flyer

Might I suggest that you change the locks on your doors, small cost to do so, but at least he cannot be letting himself in and out until you have a resolution to the situation.

Right2Write

muffler wrote: »

Apart from all that this thread also raises the question of the willing participation in the black economy and in doing so the attempt to defraud the exchequer. There's a certain irony in all of this.

Just stating the obvious and without any intentions of offending anyone.

Indeed, it's not clear if it suited the OP originally to have things loose, pay in cash and get the job done cheaper. It's just possible they deserve each other.