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Stormont power sharing talks

I think the provisionals need to take their seats at Westminster now that they can't get the assembly up and running. Otherwise, the nationalist community are going to have absolutely no say in anything to do with the governance of NI or Brexit and the DUP and Tories will call all the shots.
By the way, there's no way that any right minded individual can call Ulster Scots a language. It's just pronouncing and writing English words in a Scottish accent. Irish is obviously the native language of Ireland. Having said that, I don't think it's a critical issue for it to have parity with English in NI. Surely there are more pressing issues

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A Little Pony wrote: »

If you think we are evil, then fine. Think that. I really don't care. The bit in bold, don't make me laugh. :D Most people don't even read the manifestos or what policy they have on health or education. It's what foot they kick with.

I didn't say anyone was 'evil', stop putting words in my mouth please.

So you don't care about religious fundamentalist policies and cultural bigotry in your name as long as the other side...etc etc?

Is that what you are saying?

FrancieBrady wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

If you think we are evil, then fine. Think that. I really don't care. The bit in bold, don't make me laugh. :D Most people don't even read the manifestos or what policy they have on health or education. It's what foot they kick with.

I didn't say anyone was 'evil', stop putting words in my mouth please.

So you don't care about religious fundamentalist policies and cultural bigotry in your name as long as the other side...etc etc?

Is that what you are saying?

I am saying what I am saying. Take from it what you want. I have made myself very clear. You seem to hate us, which is fine.

tomwaterford wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

If you think we are evil, then fine. Think that. I really don't care. The bit in bold, don't make me laugh. :D Most people don't even read the manifestos or what policy they have on health or education. It's what foot they kick with.

That is a thundering disgrace,but I do believe it to be true

It absolutely is true and I think the poster arguing against it is living on another planet if he thinks it isn't the case. Most people here don't give a sh*t about general policies.

A Little Pony wrote: »

I am saying what I am saying. Take from it what you want. I have made myself very clear. You seem to hate us, which is fine.

:rolleyes: No point continuing. Good luck.

I don't hate anyone but maybe if you stood up openly for what you clearly support you would gain respect.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

I am saying what I am saying. Take from it what you want. I have made myself very clear. You seem to hate us, which is fine.

:rolleyes: No point continuing. Good luck.

I don't hate anyone but maybe if you stood up openly for what you clearly support you would gain respect.

That isn't what I gathered from the posts. I have already explained my view on those policies.

A Little Pony wrote: »

That isn't what I gathered from the posts. I have already explained my view on those policies.

Yet you, like Blanch and others, have never criticised the DUP on their own, for what they have been doing since the GFA. Behaviour which has finally brought down the executive.

This is never going to end until people like you and Blanch are prepared to call a spade a spade.

*If any other party in northern Ireland is blocking progress to normality on religious or cultural grounds then the onus is on you to point it out if you are going to claim 'they are all the same'.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

That isn't what I gathered from the posts. I have already explained my view on those policies.

Yet you, like Blanch and others, have never criticised the DUP on their own, for what they have been doing since the GFA. Behaviour which has finally brought down the executive.

This is never going to end until people like you and Blanch are prepared to call a spade a spade.

*If any other party in northern Ireland is blocking progress to normality on religious or cultural grounds then the onus is on you to point it out if you are going to claim 'they are all the same'.

Post error.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

That isn't what I gathered from the posts. I have already explained my view on those policies.

Yet you, like Blanch and others, have never criticised the DUP on their own, for what they have been doing since the GFA. Behaviour which has finally brought down the executive.

This is never going to end until people like you and Blanch are prepared to call a spade a spade.

*If any other party in northern Ireland is blocking progress to normality on religious or cultural grounds then the onus is on you to point it out if you are going to claim 'they are all the same'.

I already said I am happy it collapsed, I believe it fundamentally doesn't work. I don't know what else to tell you on this issue.

A Little Pony wrote: »

I already said I am happy it collapsed, I believe it fundamentally doesn't work. I don't know what else to tell you on this issue.

Just keep ignoring the actual points being made.

Yet you, like Blanch and others, have never criticised the DUP on their own, for what they have been doing since the GFA.

It was designed to work, if everyone behaved honestly without reneging on their responsibilities.

As I said, the record speaks clearly and honestly for itself.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

I already said I am happy it collapsed, I believe it fundamentally doesn't work. I don't know what else to tell you on this issue.

Just keep ignoring the actual points being made.

Yet you, like Blanch and others, have never criticised the DUP on their own, for what they have been doing since the GFA.

It was designed to work, if everyone behaved honestly without reneging on their responsibilities.

As I said, the record speaks clearly and honestly for itself.

Mandatory coalition will never work in a democracy. Unworkable, never going to be sustainable. It needs scrapped.

A Little Pony wrote: »

Mandatory coalition will never work in a democracy. Unworkable, never going to be sustainable. It needs scrapped.

Religious fundamentalism and cultural bigotry (both engaged in by the DUP since the GFA) will not work in a democracy.

Mandatory coalition will work in post conflict societies if all parties are honest and committed to democratic means.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

Mandatory coalition will never work in a democracy. Unworkable, never going to be sustainable. It needs scrapped.

Religious fundamentalism and cultural bigotry (both engaged in by the DUP since the GFA) will not work in a democracy.

Mandatory coalition will work in post conflict societies if all parties are honest and committed to democratic means.

Good luck with that one. Not going to work, never will, in my opinion.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Yet you, like Blanch and others, have never criticised the DUP on their own, for what they have been doing since the GFA. Behaviour which has finally brought down the executive.

This is never going to end until people like you and Blanch are prepared to call a spade a spade.

.

What a load of rubbish. Nobody here has ever defended the DUP position on same-sex marriage. In fact it has been strongly criticised by nearly everybody.

As for the "they are not the same" piece, this is my position. Both of the main parties in the North are obnoxious sectarian failures in my opinion. Whether one gets an E grade rather than an F grade in a contest between them to see which is the worst is of zero interest to me.

A Little Pony wrote: »

Good luck with that one. Not going to work, never will, in my opinion.

Well as somebody above says, it will be run jointly. May not be official, but effectively that is what will happen.
Westminster wouldn't scratch itself with regard to northern Ireland without full consultation with Dublin.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

Good luck with that one. Not going to work, never will, in my opinion.

Well as somebody above says, it will be run jointly. May not be official, but effectively that is what will happen.
Westminster wouldn't scratch itself with regard to northern Ireland without full consultation with Dublin.

You do make me laugh Francie, 'not official', gosh. I don't know where to go with that one. We are now entering pipe dream territory.

blanch152 wrote: »

What a load of rubbish. Nobody here has ever defended the DUP position on same-sex marriage. In fact it has been strongly criticised by nearly everybody.

As for the "they are not the same" piece, this is my position. Both of the main parties in the North are obnoxious sectarian failures in my opinion. Whether one gets an E grade rather than an F grade in a contest between them to see which is the worst is of zero interest to me.

You cannot point to one post of yours that singles out the DUP for criticism, yet the record shows they are the ONLY party repeatedly engaging in religious discrimination and cultural bigotry (see the evidence of that posted already in this thread)
They are simply NOT all the same and it is time that people who claim that they are, are stood up to. With the facts.

A Little Pony wrote: »

You do make me laugh Francie, 'not official', gosh. I don't know where to go with that one. We are now entering pipe dream territory.

It won't be official because the rabble will be encouraged to engage in Never Never Never wrecking again.
But it will be the case.
Suits me fine.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

You do make me laugh Francie, 'not official', gosh. I don't know where to go with that one. We are now entering pipe dream territory.

It won't be official because the rabble will be encouraged to engage in Never Never Never wrecking again.
But it will be the case.
Suits me fine.

If you say so. Bizarre but there you go. People believe a lot of odd things in society now.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

blanch152 wrote: »

What a load of rubbish. Nobody here has ever defended the DUP position on same-sex marriage. In fact it has been strongly criticised by nearly everybody.

As for the "they are not the same" piece, this is my position. Both of the main parties in the North are obnoxious sectarian failures in my opinion. Whether one gets an E grade rather than an F grade in a contest between them to see which is the worst is of zero interest to me.

You cannot point to one post of yours that singles out the DUP for criticism, yet the record shows they are the ONLY party repeatedly engaging in religious discrimination and cultural bigotry (see the evidence of that posted already in this thread)
They are simply NOT all the same and it is time that people who claim that they are, are stood up to. With the facts.

They rejected an Ulster Scots language act alongside ILA. Conor Murphy was found guilty in court of discriminating against a Protestant on religious grounds.

http://www.thejournal.ie/sinn-fein-minister-found-guilty-of-religious-discrimination-495007-Jun2012/

I could list so many things Sinn Fein have done against Protestants.

A Little Pony wrote: »

If you say so. Bizarre but there you go. People believe a lot of odd things in society now.

You have a curious ability to ignore realities and facts. Like the voting record of the DUP.

Westminster have been and will liaise on everything that happens on this island.
You would have to be blind not to see that.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

If you say so. Bizarre but there you go. People believe a lot of odd things in society now.

You have a curious ability to ignore realities and facts. Like the voting record of the DUP.

Westminster have been and will liaise on everything that happens on this island.
You would have to be blind not to see that.

You keep making things up about the Irish state having joint authority when it has already been denied.
https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/notion-of-joint-authority-in-north-is-all-smoke-and-mirrors-1.3002653
http://www.irishnews.com/news/politicalnews/2017/01/18/news/british-government-says-no-joint-rule-for-north-892119/
http://www.irishnews.com/news/2017/05/31/news/tories-rule-out-joint-authority-for-north-1040479/

A Little Pony wrote: »

They rejected an Ulster Scots language act alongside ILA.

No they didn't. SF have again and again said they have no problem recognising the place of Ulster Scots.
The problem in the Executive is that the DUP have blocked a portion of the St Andrews agreement that agreed to a standalone ILA.

Conor Murphy was found guilty in court of discriminating against a Protestant on religious grounds.

http://www.thejournal.ie/sinn-fein-minister-found-guilty-of-religious-discrimination-495007-Jun2012/

And he was rightly criticised for it and penalised.

I could list so many things Sinn Fein have done against Protestants.

Ok, show us where and when SF have blocked rights available to every citizen on these islands or previously agreed clauses in the GFA or St Andrew's agreement.
Then you can show us how the SDLP, The Alliance and UUP are doing it on anything approaching the scale the DUP are and have been doing it.

A Little Pony wrote: »

You keep making things up about the Irish state having joint authority when it has already been denied.
https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/notion-of-joint-authority-in-north-is-all-smoke-and-mirrors-1.3002653
http://www.irishnews.com/news/politicalnews/2017/01/18/news/british-government-says-no-joint-rule-for-north-892119/
http://www.irishnews.com/news/2017/05/31/news/tories-rule-out-joint-authority-for-north-1040479/

Which would be fine if I said 'joint authority',.
They won't announce it officially because a certain party will whip it's supporters into a frenzy about it.
But we all know (including I suspect, even you) what the reality will be. The UK is not going back to the 70 or 80's.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

They rejected an Ulster Scots language act alongside ILA.

No they didn't. SF have again and again said they have no problem recognising the place of Ulster Scots.
The problem in the Executive is that the DUP have blocked a portion of the St Andrews agreement that agreed to a standalone ILA.

Conor Murphy was found guilty in court of discriminating against a Protestant on religious grounds.

http://www.thejournal.ie/sinn-fein-minister-found-guilty-of-religious-discrimination-495007-Jun2012/

And he was rightly criticised for it and penalised.

I could list so many things Sinn Fein have done against Protestants.

Ok, show us where and when SF have blocked rights available to every citizen on these islands or previously agreed clauses in the GFA or St Andrew's agreement.
Then you can show us how the SDLP, The Alliance and UUP are doing it on anything approaching the scale the DUP are and have been doing it.

I just did. The DUP wanted to include an Ulster Sots act alongside an ILA and they rejected it.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

You keep making things up about the Irish state having joint authority when it has already been denied.
https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/notion-of-joint-authority-in-north-is-all-smoke-and-mirrors-1.3002653
http://www.irishnews.com/news/politicalnews/2017/01/18/news/british-government-says-no-joint-rule-for-north-892119/
http://www.irishnews.com/news/2017/05/31/news/tories-rule-out-joint-authority-for-north-1040479/

Which would be fine if I said 'joint authority',.
They won't announce it officially because a certain party will whip it's supporters into a frenzy about it.
But we all know (including I suspect, even you) what the reality will be. The UK is not going back to the 70 or 80's.

What are you on about? You are talking about constitutional issues here, do you think people are too thick to not notice such a thing? I genuinely smiled when you said officially as if no one will notice or it's constitutionally legal.

A Little Pony wrote: »

I just did.

No you didn't. You said you could show how SF had done things that were against Protestants.

How is recognising that Ulster Scots is an important part of our heritage, 'doing something against Protestants'?

FrancieBrady wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

I just did.

No you didn't. You said you could show how SF had done things that were against Protestants.

How is recognising that Ulster Scots is an important part of our heritage, 'doing something against Protestants'?

They rejected having an act for it. That is "discriminating" against many people who enjoy such a thing. Then you have all the dead bodies.

A Little Pony wrote: »

What are you on about? You are talking about constitutional issues here, do you think people are too thick to not notice such a thing? I genuinely smiled when you said officially as if no one will notice or it's constitutionally legal.

Arlene 'didn't' notice very recently when Dublin got involved, right enough.

Dublin will be consulted if the Executive cannot be got up and running. Westminster will not scratch itself with regard to northern Ireland without discussing it with Dublin first. That is the new dispensation and it has been going on since the GFA. Joint rule to all intents and purposes.

A Little Pony wrote: »

They rejected having an act for it. That is "discriminating" against many people who enjoy such a thing. Then you have all the dead bodies.

No, they have no problem with an Ulster Scots act if that is neccessary.
They (the SDLP and The Alliance) want a previous agreement on an ILA implemented, that is discriminating against no-one. Unless objecting to an agreement not being met is 'discriminating'?

FrancieBrady wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

What are you on about? You are talking about constitutional issues here, do you think people are too thick to not notice such a thing? I genuinely smiled when you said officially as if no one will notice or it's constitutionally legal.

Arlene 'didn't' notice very recently when Dublin got involved, right enough.

Dublin will be consulted if the Executive cannot be got up and running. Westminster will not scratch itself with regard to northern Ireland without discussing it with Dublin first. That is the new dispensation and it has been going on since the GFA. Joint rule to all intents and purposes.

That is just unbelievable mental gymnastics. Joint authority isn't happening, as shown by the links. You have some crazed idea that Dublin would govern NI when that is just fanciful nonsense. The British government might discuss issues regarding Brexit with the Irish state and other such issues but joint authority, no.