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Stormont power sharing talks

Baralis1

I think the provisionals need to take their seats at Westminster now that they can't get the assembly up and running. Otherwise, the nationalist community are going to have absolutely no say in anything to do with the governance of NI or Brexit and the DUP and Tories will call all the shots.
By the way, there's no way that any right minded individual can call Ulster Scots a language. It's just pronouncing and writing English words in a Scottish accent. Irish is obviously the native language of Ireland. Having said that, I don't think it's a critical issue for it to have parity with English in NI. Surely there are more pressing issues

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blanch152

A Little Pony wrote: »

Bizarre statements really. I have been in Orange halls plenty of times in my life, met people in the Orange, good decent people who from my experience never talked politics anytime I met them in and around the scene. Just normal every day folk. From all the people I know I don't know one person who wants Protestant supremacy over anyone, hell if anything attendance to Church and religion in general is falling rapidly within that community.

I don't know one person who attends church or believes in a God be it family or friends or has any supremacy beliefs, actually family is now tied into a Catholic family because of a marriage who are actually religious. Never once have I seen any issues or anyone trying to 'rule' over them. It seems some people on this thread are stuck in a time warp believing it is 1798 or the early 20th century on here.

Most on here obviously don't have a clue what daily life is like in Northern Ireland compared to what it was even 20 years ago, it's hugely different socially from my experience. I could name multiple things which are different since my time growing up in the early 90s.

Look, it always helps to label and demonise your enemies. It allows you to deflect from the real issues. That is part and parcel of all tribal politics and the North has some of the most tribal politics anywhere in the world. Hence the type of accusations we see on this thread where all Unionists are lumped in with the reactionaries and called supremacists and religious fundamentalists, and realistic nationalists are called partitionists.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

Look, it always helps to label and demonise your enemies. It allows you to deflect from the real issues. That is part and parcel of all tribal politics and the North has some of the most tribal politics anywhere in the world. Hence the type of accusations we see on this thread where all Unionists are lumped in with the reactionaries and called supremacists and religious fundamentalists, and realistic nationalists are called partitionists.

Let's see how he can justify what is happening there in the name of religion and unionism.

Meanwhile you were asked a few questions as well.

BTW nobody has lumped everybody into anything. You are the one nationalist poster trying to make this about SF alone when it patently isn't.

steddyeddy

A Little Pony wrote: »

Vast majority of Protestants in the state are Unionist. It's just a fact.

Indeed but Protestants cover 40% of Christians worldwide. Millions and millions of people. The vast majority of those aren't Ulster unionist. So it's not true to say people have a problem with loyalism have a problem with Protestants any more than it is to say people who have problems with the KKK also hate Protestant culture.

A Little Pony

FrancieBrady wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

Bizarre statements really. I have been in Orange halls plenty of times in my life, met people in the Orange, good decent people who from my experience never talked politics anytime I met them in and around the scene. Just normal every day folk. From all the people I know I don't know one person who wants Protestant supremacy over anyone, hell if anything attendance to Church and religion in general is falling rapidly within that community.

I don't know one person who attends church or believes in a God be it family or friends or has any supremacy beliefs, actually family is now tied into a Catholic family because of a marriage who are actually religious. Never once have I seen any issues or anyone trying to 'rule' over them. It seems some people on this thread are stuck in a time warp believing it is 1798 or the early 20th century on here.

Most on here obviously don't have a clue what daily life is like in Northern Ireland compared to what it was even 20 years ago, it's hugely different socially from my experience. I could name multiple things which are different since my time growing up in the early 90s.

So why are so many rights being blocked for religiously fundamentalist reasons?
As you say most Protestants are unionist and they elect the people who are doing that again and again.
Yet Blanch reckons nationalists will be 'bigger' in stature if they compromise/acquiese to open religious fundamentalism.

It isn't religious fundamentalism though, it is just tribal politics which is hundreds of years old. Sure you come across street preachers etc, I even had a debate with one on the existence of God etc but in everyday life I just don't see this religious fundamentalism you seem obsessed with. I have tried to finding these thousands of supremacists too.

How many people here have actually tried to discuss politics with family members or people close to you? Most I know either don't care or keep it brief, it's like getting blood out of a stone. I think this fundamentalist theory people have on so many people in NI borders on a myth, I just don't see it in my everyday life.

tomwaterford

A Little Pony wrote: »

It isn't religious fundamentalism though, it is just tribal politics which is hundreds of years old. Sure you come across street preachers etc, I even had a debate with one on the existence of God etc but in everyday life I just don't see this religious fundamentalism you seem obsessed with. I have tried to finding these thousands of supremacists too.

How many people here have actually tried to discuss politics with family members or people close to you? Most I know either don't care or keep it brief, it's like getting blood out of a stone. I think this fundamentalist theory people have on so many people in NI borders on a myth, I just don't see it in my everyday life.

On a broader note...I'm suprised there isn't a more discussion within unionism about its future given it no longer can command a majority in stormont

I know from people on fringes of dissident organisations (eirigi etc) this has caused consternation and discussion on the future and another election of similar results will cause a lot of issues to be examined more closely

FrancieBrady

A Little Pony wrote: »

It isn't religious fundamentalism though, it is just tribal politics which is hundreds of years old. Sure you come across street preachers etc, I even had a debate with one on the existence of God etc but in everyday life I just don't see this religious fundamentalism you seem obsessed with. I have tried to finding these thousands of supremacists too.

How many people here have actually tried to discuss politics with family members or people close to you? Most I know either don't care or keep it brief, it's like getting blood out of a stone. I think this fundamentalist theory people have on so many people in NI borders on a myth, I just don't see it in my everyday life.

Yes it is fundamentalist and you are avoiding the question.
Here is the voting records of the DUP MPs

Ian Paisley Jr - North Antrim

LGBT rights: Voted against equal gay rights

Gay Marriage: Voted against same sex marriage

Abortion: Voted against

Climate change: against measures to prevent climate change

Notable quotes: Called homosexuality “immoral, offensive and obnoxious” and said he was “repulsed” by gays and lesbians.

Jim Shannon - Strangford

LGBT rights: voted against equal gay rights

Gay marriage: Voted against same sex marriage

Abortion: Voted against

Climate change: Voted a mixture of for and against measures to prevent climate change (5 votes for, 7 votes against)

Sammy Wilson - East Antrim

LGBT rights: Voted against equal gay rights

Gay marriage: Voted against same sex marriage

Abortion: Voted against

Climate change: Generally against measures to prevent climate change (1 vote for, 13 votes against)

Notable quotes: Believes man-made climate change is a “gigantic con” and an “hysterical semi-religion”

Gregory Campbell - East Londonderry

LGBT rights: Voted against equal gay rights

Gay marriage: Voted against same sex marriage

Abortion: Voted against

Climate change: Voted a mixture of for and against measures to prevent climate change (7 votes for, 7 votes against)

Notable quotes: Confirmed that the DUP is “unashamedly pro-life.”

Nigel Dodds - Belfast North

LGBT rights: Voted against equal gay rights (1 vote for, 14 votes against)

Gay marriage: Voted against same sex marriage (1 vote for, 6 votes against)

Abortion: Voted against

Climate change: Voted for a mixture (8 votes for, 5 votes against)

David Simpson - Upper Bann

LGBT rights: Voted against equal gay rights

Gay marriage: Voted against same sex marriage

Abortion: Voted against

Climate change: Voted a mixture for and against measures to prevent climate change (6 votes for, 7 votes against)

Notable quotes: Called for change in British abortion law, to make it more like Northern Irish law and criticised pro-choice MPs for their “anti-democratic, anti-human rights stance.”

Gavin Robinson - Belfast East

Has never voted on laws to promote equality and human rights

Abortion: Voted once with the pro-life lobby

Climate change: Voted for measures to prevent climate change (4 votes vor, 3 against)

Emma Little-Pengelly - Belfast South

LGBT rights: Newly elected – yet to vote

Gay marriage: Newly elected – yet to vote

Abortion: Voted against: Newly elected – yet to vote

Climate change: Newly elected – yet to vote

Paul Girvan - South Antrim

LGBT rights: Newly elected – yet to vote

Gay marriage: Newly elected – yet to vote

Abortion: Voted against: Newly elected – yet to vote

Climate change: Newly elected – yet to vote

Jeffrey M. Donaldson - Lagan Valley

LGBT rights: Voted against equal gay rights (1 vote for, 13 votes against)

Gay marriage: Voted against same sex marriage

Abortion: voted against

Climate change: A mixture (9 votes for, 5 votes against)

Unionists elect these people knowing they will continue to vote on religious beliefs and cultural suprematist beliefs.
The record doesn't lie or deflect from reality.

Thomas__

blanch152 wrote: »

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You will have to show me how I 'disregarded' your argument.
I have taken your argument on and countered it:

And I specifically didn't call you a 'partitionist' I said your attitude was 'closer to a partitionist' than a nationalist for the reason outlined above.

I wouldn't worry too much, I get called/labelled a 'member of SF' and a 'supporter of terrorists' all the time by some here when I am neither.

Could you answer some of the questions now?

A partitionist is a term of abuse, not a political label.

It´s clearly the other way round, a political label and not a term of abuse because to support the partition of Ireland is to support the status quo and that is a plain political stance. You´re not the only one supporting the Status quo and I´ve come across serveral posters of your mindset who are indeed of a republican mindset but dismiss any Approach towards a UI for fear of "importing" the trouble of the divided communities from NI into the Republic and that´s what they absolutely don´t want to happen, as long as those two communities don´t come to terms which means to convince the Unionists that they will have a future with equal status in a UI.

On every turn about that matter of a UI, it always falls back on the Unionists in NI who are indeed the blocking factor for a UI and as they are clearly a minority in NI alone, they´re even more a minority in whole of the Island of Ireland. Minorities are usually to comply with the majority by giving them space for sustaining and maintaining their culture, but they are not to dictate the will of the majority cos that puts everything out of balance, hence the trouble with politics in NI.

Apart from the individual experiences and connects of people on both sides of the border, the perception of NI in the Republic has been feeded and sustained by the decades of the troubles and its aftermath. In all that, people in the Republic, apart from SF members and followers and other diehard republicans who prefer a more radical solution to the whole subject of a UI, appear to either have forgotten about their fellow Irish people in NI or simply don´t care about them at all. This has left some bitter taste in the minds of those who lived through the Troubles and grew up during that period. Aside from the stubbornness of the Unionists, this is also a matter which would have to be dealt with in way to realise that Irish people in NI are as equal like those in the Republic.

There is a much more bigger desire for a UI among the CNRs in NI than among the many Irish citizens in the Republic and the reasons for that lie in the two different states the people live in. Within the last couple of years, the Situation in NI has improved, but the divide is still there and occasionally it reemerges on the surface time and again wherever and whenever the tensions on some issues increase and riots take place. The many of those riots were caused by Unionists and Loyalists whereas the response from the Republicans and Nationalists was often restrained, due to the leadership of SF and namely that of the late Martin McGuinness. I won´t go into much further details for this would distract from the subject of the thread itself. But it is important to point out where there was and is leadership and where wasn´t and still lacks such. The Unionists/Loyalists, the community as well as their political leaders, have given proof for that lack of leadership in the past years since this UJ on the BCC issue caused a trail of riots, protests and more tensions. During those years, the many efforts to calm the Situation were taken by SF and Mr Peter Robinson, as the then FM of NI, often appeared reluctant to Show leadership towards his community and very often gave the impression that he didn´t liked it to have to work together with SF on the basis of power sharing. The previous years of the "chuckle brothers" were an exemption and what one witnesses these days is the continuance of this reluctancy on the Unionists side, in particular of the DUP, to work with SF on the power sharing Basis to form a new NI govt.

Mrs Foster, who "grabbed" the chance to back up the weak Tory govt in Westminster in exchange for a £1 billion and to secure herself and her party more influence into the UK govt, lacks even more leadership towards the Unionist community than her predecessor Mr Robinson. When you read around the statements of the various Unionists and Loyalists in NI, it is striking that those who still prefer direct rule in NI to limited selfgovernance, you find them rather among DUP members and followers than others, the radicals on the Unionist / Loyalist side need not to be mentioned here because for them, this goes without saying.

Considering all that, the developments of the past couple of years and how the situation is at the present, it´s not hard to conclude that Mrs Foster and her DUP wish for and apparently work on the return of direct rule for NI from Westminster in order to get out of the "stringjacked" of power sharing with SF. This should be clear enough by now because rarely since the GFA and power sharing agreement, did it take that long to form a new NI govt which isn´t formed yet and that is because the DUP uses every bit they see fit to block any progress in this matter, leaving NI in limbo and probably exeeding the patience of the UK govt to deal with it which might end in restoring direct rule for NI and thus fulfilling the wish of the DUP.

This Irish language act issue is nothing but a tool in the hands of the DUP on their way and with their efforts to restore direct rule for NI. You might find some other and further explanations or aspects which might fit in, but for me, this one is the main reason if not the only one at all that drives the DUP to act the way she and in particular Mrs Foster acts.

One doesn´t have to be a friend, sympathiser or even member of SF, as I am none of these, to see the obvious and what is behind that. Just put the record of the DUP in the NI govt, where she always had the post of the FM and that mostly due to this power sharing agreement, the recent manouvers by her leader and the road she´s after lies clear ahead. SF appears to be powerless in that matter cos they can´t force them into a govt and the present UK govt seems to have no much interest in solving that matter either because of the mess of Brexit they´ve no clue to solve either.

People in the Republic of Ireland know about that, depending on ones interest in NI per se, mostly from the media, such as I do. Those who live there have a very different view and it strongly depends on which community one belongs to. It is questionable whether such problems would be better dealt with and solved in a UI, but there is some rejection among some Irish people in the Republic towards NI, their people and of course their problems. They don´t want to have any of that. This is something from the various reasons for those who either call themselves partitionists or are labelled as such by supporters of a UI.

To conclude this long post, I just like to say that with every backing of the status quo, one backs up the DUP indirectly, whether one likes that or not. The fact that the claim for territorial Irish unity was removed from bunreacht na heireann in order to settle the GFA, does not extinct the wish of some people on the Island of Ireland to achieve a UI and thus ending the need of any further influence from Britain in any part of Ireland. The present UK govt is the worst in decades and is not fit to take on the role of a broker.

A UI bears some risks and problems, but it also bears some chances and prospect. I wouldn´t give up to support the striving for a UI just because some diehard selfisch political dinosaurs won´t accept it.

Irishweather

And this won't be destructive for the Peace Process? Lol! Cloud Cuckoo land!

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/irish-want-sea-border-with-uk-after-brexit-lvb6n35fq

Thomas__

Irishweather wrote: »

And this won't be destructive for the Peace Process? Lol! Cloud Cuckoo land!

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/irish-want-sea-border-with-uk-after-brexit-lvb6n35fq

Unless one has subscribed to the times and pays for reading, one can´t read the whole article and I am certainly not going to subscribe and pay for reading the Murdoch Press, not at all.

The present UK govt will surely spoil the peace process in NI given that they continue with their "no clue at all" approach on Brexit and everything that is affected by that and there is plenty of.

The Irish Sea suggestion is some point which is a natural border anyway but doesn´t bring the solution for the land border between NI and the Republic.

Edit: The Story is on RTÉ News as well:

https://www.rte.ie/news/2017/0728/893599-brexit/

The DUP is in her usual mood, recommending that the Republic should leave the EU as well

DUP MP Ian Paisley said the reported position of the Irish Government appeared to leave two alternatives - a "very hard border" or that "Ireland will wise up and leave the EU" itself.

I really despise the lot of them, I really do.

FrancieBrady

Irishweather wrote: »

And this won't be destructive for the Peace Process? Lol! Cloud Cuckoo land!

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/irish-want-sea-border-with-uk-after-brexit-lvb6n35fq

What?

It wasn't Dublin that campaigned for Brexit. We have to find the best accommodation for us.

How would that destroy the peace process?

Thomas__

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Irishweather wrote: »

And this won't be destructive for the Peace Process? Lol! Cloud Cuckoo land!

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/irish-want-sea-border-with-uk-after-brexit-lvb6n35fq

What?

It wasn't Dublin that campaigned for Brexit. We have to find the best accommodation for us.

How would that destroy the peace process?

I can´t help it, but the posts of Irishweather bear some pro-UK angle for my taste and you´re right in what you say.

FrancieBrady

Irishweather wrote: »

And this won't be destructive for the Peace Process? Lol! Cloud Cuckoo land!

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/irish-want-sea-border-with-uk-after-brexit-lvb6n35fq

Probably off topic so I opened a separate thread on this. http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057768793

A Little Pony

tomwaterford wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

It isn't religious fundamentalism though, it is just tribal politics which is hundreds of years old. Sure you come across street preachers etc, I even had a debate with one on the existence of God etc but in everyday life I just don't see this religious fundamentalism you seem obsessed with. I have tried to finding these thousands of supremacists too.

How many people here have actually tried to discuss politics with family members or people close to you? Most I know either don't care or keep it brief, it's like getting blood out of a stone. I think this fundamentalist theory people have on so many people in NI borders on a myth, I just don't see it in my everyday life.

On a broader note...I'm suprised there isn't a more discussion within unionism about its future given it no longer can command a majority in stormont

I know from people on fringes of dissident organisations (eirigi etc) this has caused consternation and discussion on the future and another election of similar results will cause a lot of issues to be examined more closely

The DUP cleaned up at the Westminster elections and had the best ever result, the result of dreams. Talking about Stormont elections now is kind of irrelevant as we probably won't ever see Stormont back up and running again, not for as long as mandatory coalition exists as it doesn't work in a functioning democracy.
I am actually happy that Stormont collapsed, it wasn't working and never will work as it is.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

It isn't religious fundamentalism though, it is just tribal politics which is hundreds of years old. Sure you come across street preachers etc, I even had a debate with one on the existence of God etc but in everyday life I just don't see this religious fundamentalism you seem obsessed with. I have tried to finding these thousands of supremacists too.

How many people here have actually tried to discuss politics with family members or people close to you? Most I know either don't care or keep it brief, it's like getting blood out of a stone. I think this fundamentalist theory people have on so many people in NI borders on a myth, I just don't see it in my everyday life.

Yes it is fundamentalist and you are avoiding the question.
Here is the voting records of the DUP MPs

Ian Paisley Jr - North Antrim

LGBT rights: Voted against equal gay rights

Gay Marriage: Voted against same sex marriage

Abortion: Voted against

Climate change: against measures to prevent climate change

Notable quotes: Called homosexuality “immoral, offensive and obnoxious” and said he was “repulsed” by gays and lesbians.

Jim Shannon - Strangford

LGBT rights: voted against equal gay rights

Gay marriage: Voted against same sex marriage

Abortion: Voted against

Climate change: Voted a mixture of for and against measures to prevent climate change (5 votes for, 7 votes against)

Sammy Wilson - East Antrim

LGBT rights: Voted against equal gay rights

Gay marriage: Voted against same sex marriage

Abortion: Voted against

Climate change: Generally against measures to prevent climate change (1 vote for, 13 votes against)

Notable quotes: Believes man-made climate change is a “gigantic con” and an “hysterical semi-religion”

Gregory Campbell - East Londonderry

LGBT rights: Voted against equal gay rights

Gay marriage: Voted against same sex marriage

Abortion: Voted against

Climate change: Voted a mixture of for and against measures to prevent climate change (7 votes for, 7 votes against)

Notable quotes: Confirmed that the DUP is “unashamedly pro-life.”

Nigel Dodds - Belfast North

LGBT rights: Voted against equal gay rights (1 vote for, 14 votes against)

Gay marriage: Voted against same sex marriage (1 vote for, 6 votes against)

Abortion: Voted against

Climate change: Voted for a mixture (8 votes for, 5 votes against)

David Simpson - Upper Bann

LGBT rights: Voted against equal gay rights

Gay marriage: Voted against same sex marriage

Abortion: Voted against

Climate change: Voted a mixture for and against measures to prevent climate change (6 votes for, 7 votes against)

Notable quotes: Called for change in British abortion law, to make it more like Northern Irish law and criticised pro-choice MPs for their “anti-democratic, anti-human rights stance.”

Gavin Robinson - Belfast East

Has never voted on laws to promote equality and human rights

Abortion: Voted once with the pro-life lobby

Climate change: Voted for measures to prevent climate change (4 votes vor, 3 against)

Emma Little-Pengelly - Belfast South

LGBT rights: Newly elected – yet to vote

Gay marriage: Newly elected – yet to vote

Abortion: Voted against: Newly elected – yet to vote

Climate change: Newly elected – yet to vote

Paul Girvan - South Antrim

LGBT rights: Newly elected – yet to vote

Gay marriage: Newly elected – yet to vote

Abortion: Voted against: Newly elected – yet to vote

Climate change: Newly elected – yet to vote

Jeffrey M. Donaldson - Lagan Valley

LGBT rights: Voted against equal gay rights (1 vote for, 13 votes against)

Gay marriage: Voted against same sex marriage

Abortion: voted against

Climate change: A mixture (9 votes for, 5 votes against)

Unionists elect these people knowing they will continue to vote on religious beliefs and cultural suprematist beliefs.
The record doesn't lie or deflect from reality.

Sinn Fein voters vote in people with terrorist pasts who wouldn't think twice about putting a bullet in the back of a prods head. Welcome to the centuries conflict. But as I said I don't see these huge extreme views you speak of in everyday life.

tomwaterford

A Little Pony wrote: »

The DUP cleaned up at the Westminster elections and had the best ever result, the result of dreams. Talking about Stormont elections now is kind of irrelevant as we probably won't ever see Stormont back up and running again, not for as long as mandatory coalition exists as it doesn't work in a functioning democracy.
I am actually happy that Stormont collapsed, it wasn't working and never will work as it

Joint rule from Dublin so

A Little Pony

tomwaterford wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

The DUP cleaned up at the Westminster elections and had the best ever result, the result of dreams. Talking about Stormont elections now is kind of irrelevant as we probably won't ever see Stormont back up and running again, not for as long as mandatory coalition exists as it doesn't work in a functioning democracy.
I am actually happy that Stormont collapsed, it wasn't working and never will work as it

Joint rule from Dublin so

Not going to happen.

FrancieBrady

A Little Pony wrote: »

Sinn Fein voters vote in people with terrorist pasts who wouldn't think twice about putting a bullet in the back of a prods head. Welcome to the centuries conflict. But as I said I don't see these huge extreme views you speak of in everyday life.

The conflict has been over a long time.

Have you anything to say about the DUP constantly blocking rights available to every other person on these islands, from a religiously fundamentalist and culturally bigoted standpoint?

*I consider the DUP's opinions on LGBT and same sex marriage to be fundamentalist and can post quotes from them that illustrate that if you wish. (but I would rather not spread it given a choice)

tomwaterford

A Little Pony wrote: »

Not going to happen.

Neither is stormont going to stay down

A Little Pony

FrancieBrady wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

Sinn Fein voters vote in people with terrorist pasts who wouldn't think twice about putting a bullet in the back of a prods head. Welcome to the centuries conflict. But as I said I don't see these huge extreme views you speak of in everyday life.

The conflict has been over a long time.

Have you anything to say about the DUP constantly blocking rights available to every other person on these islands, from a religiously fundamentalist and culturally bigoted standpoint?

*I consider the DUP's opinions on LGBT and same sex marriage to be fundamentalist and can post quotes from them that illustrate that if you wish. (but I would rather not spread it given a choice)

Not particularly no as I have expressed my views on these issues before. I would allow gay marriage to pass but that is just me personally. I wouldn't want to pay for a ILA.

A Little Pony

tomwaterford wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

Not going to happen.

Neither is stormont going to stay down

Stormont is not coming back unless Ulster Scots and Irish language are put together in a language package, but really the system is flawed and has been doomed to fail from the start.

tomwaterford

A Little Pony wrote: »

Stormont is not coming back unless Ulster Scots and Irish language are put together in a language package, but really the system is flawed and has been doomed to fail from the start.

Ya....of course power sharing with nationalistsruns completely against unionist principles

Interesting you not language package.....and have accepted that Irish will be getting it's own act??

But your buring your head in the sand in relation to no longer holding a majority in stormont??

Looks increasing likely unionists dont want to share power...in the new reality

FrancieBrady

A Little Pony wrote: »

Not particularly no as I have expressed my views on these issues before. I would allow gay marriage to pass but that is just me personally. I wouldn't want to pay for a ILA.

Yes, I am not that interested in your personal views,(why do people hide behind them when asked to comment on the general picture) I am interested in your views on the voting record of those you claim are not religiously fundamentalist.

The record speaks for itself.

A Little Pony

FrancieBrady wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

Not particularly no as I have expressed my views on these issues before. I would allow gay marriage to pass but that is just me personally. I wouldn't want to pay for a ILA.

Yes, I am not that interested in your personal views,(why do people hide behind them when asked to comment on the general picture) I am interested in your views on the voting record of those you claim are not religiously fundamentalist.

The record speaks for itself.

I didn't say they weren't, I said the population of NI is not 'fundamentalist', whatever that means nowadays. People vote for SF and DUP out of habit, a pig with a rosette would get elected in some parts of NI.

tomwaterford

A Little Pony wrote: »

I didn't say they weren't, I said the population of NI is not 'fundamentalist', whatever that means nowadays. People vote for SF and DUP out of habit, a pig with a rosette would get elected in some parts of NI.

Tbf they have remarkable similarities to the free state here

It took a collapse of record proportion for people to stop voting ff and inspite of that they are back polling nearly as strongly again

A Little Pony

tomwaterford wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

I didn't say they weren't, I said the population of NI is not 'fundamentalist', whatever that means nowadays. People vote for SF and DUP out of habit, a pig with a rosette would get elected in some parts of NI.

Tbf they have remarkable similarities to the free state here

It took a collapse of record proportion for people to stop voting ff and inspite of that they are back polling nearly as strongly again

I saw that recently, FF probably will be in government soon enough. People soon forget in a normal democracy.

FrancieBrady

A Little Pony wrote: »

I didn't say they weren't, I said the population of NI is not 'fundamentalist', whatever that means nowadays. People vote for SF and DUP out of habit, a pig with a rosette would get elected in some parts of NI.

No they don't and the record speaks for itself there as well.

It isn't that long ago that the UUP were the main Unionist party, with the same result for the rights mentioned.
And the SDLP were once a much stronger force than they are now.

So you are wrong in your analysis.

tomwaterford

A Little Pony wrote: »

I saw that recently, FF probably will be in government soon enough. People soon forget in a normal democracy.

It's bloody ridcolus ff are effectively in government atm

And will have most likely a say in the next.....in a united Ireland, I'd imagine unionists (well of uni9n8st background then??)most likely have a say after most elections in government and while ff and fg look worringly at nationalist vote and SF.

Completely ignore the million or so unionists (circa 20 - 25% population in a ui) who will make good on putting either into government

A Little Pony

FrancieBrady wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

I didn't say they weren't, I said the population of NI is not 'fundamentalist', whatever that means nowadays. People vote for SF and DUP out of habit, a pig with a rosette would get elected in some parts of NI.

No they don't and the record speaks for itself there as well.

It isn't that long ago that the UUP were the main Unionist party, with the same result for the rights mentioned.
And the SDLP were once a much stronger force than they are now.

So you are wrong in your analysis.

SF and the DUP have been running the show for over a decade now, they will continue the carve up for the foreseeable, people DO vote for them because they aren't the other. I have seen with my own eyes, it constantly happens. The sh*t parties constantly get elected to power in NI.

FrancieBrady

A Little Pony wrote: »

SF and the DUP have been running the show for over a decade now, they will continue the carve up for the foreseeable, people DO vote for them because they aren't the other. I have seen with my own eyes, it constantly happens. The sh*t parties constantly get elected to power in NI.

People vote because they agree with the policies of the party.
Unionists like Nationalists have a choice of who they are going to vote for.

Unionists vote for a party which again and again block the rights available to everyone else on these islands from a culturally bigoted (incontestable based on the record of the DUP on cultural matters) and religiously fundamentalist grounds (incontestable, given the utterances of the DUP on LGBT issues and their voting record, posted above)

NO other party does this in northern Ireland, nor offers it as policy.
What does that say about unionists?

A Little Pony

FrancieBrady wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

SF and the DUP have been running the show for over a decade now, they will continue the carve up for the foreseeable, people DO vote for them because they aren't the other. I have seen with my own eyes, it constantly happens. The sh*t parties constantly get elected to power in NI.

People vote because they agree with the policies of the party.
Unionists like Nationalists have a choice of who they are going to vote for.

Unionists vote for a party which again and again block the rights available to everyone else on these islands from a culturally bigoted (incontestable based on the record of the DUP on cultural matters) and religiously fundamentalist grounds (incontestable, given the utterances of the DUP on LGBT issues and their voting record, posted above)

NO other party does this in northern Ireland, nor offers it as policy.
What does that say about unionists?

If you think we are evil, then fine. Think that. I really don't care. The bit in bold, don't make me laugh. :D Most people don't even read the manifestos or what policy they have on health or education. It's what foot they kick with.

tomwaterford

A Little Pony wrote: »

If you think we are evil, then fine. Think that. I really don't care. The bit in bold, don't make me laugh. :D Most people don't even read the manifestos or what policy they have on health or education. It's what foot they kick with.

That is a thundering disgrace,but I do believe it to be true