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Bar serving an alcoholic

pappyodaniel

A guy I know in my hometown has recently fell off the wagon and is back drinking again. I'd say he was dry for the last 3 years where he had become hard working and successful in his self employed job. Yesterday I spotted him legless and falling out of the local pub and this morning I spotted him outside the same pub with a pint in one hand and a cigarette in the other.

What he does with his life is his own business but do you think the barman has a duty of care not to serve him as he's enabling him to drink? I remember him from years ago as a terrible alcoholic, sh1tting his pants, domestic violence and getting arrested for being drunk and disorderly and seeing him off the booze was amazing. It's sad to see him now.

So what do ye think, should the barman not serve him on principle?

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Comments

Winterlong

Estrellita wrote: »

...because it isn't them that are making the decisions, it's the addiction.

That is very debatable. The person makes the decisions IMO, they have the responsibility.

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VinLieger

The Backwards Man wrote: »

Yeah, because the only thing anyone can ever do for someone with alcoholism is give them a drink.

Your argument amounts to "im being a responsible barman by making this person someones elses responsibility"

I never claimed to know the solution im just pointing out how ridiculous your argument against serving them is

crustyjuggler

pappyodaniel wrote: »

I remember him from years ago as a terrible alcoholic, sh1tting his pants, domestic violence and getting arrested for being drunk and disorderly

Having the craic ?

El Weirdo

suicide_circus wrote: »

Can't remember the last time I saw one refusing to serve someone on the basis of having had enough either.

I've refused to serve people regularly. I have also been refused service myself.

JupiterKid

suicide_circus wrote: »

Always makes me laugh when the vintners lobby for controls and limitations on the off-trade on the grounds of public health when each and every one of us have witnessed their members actively and eagerly facilitating the death and misery of countless irish people and their families. Deeply cynical hypocrites. Can't remember the last time I saw one refusing to serve someone on the basis of having had enough either.

Well, I can only post from experience and I can tell you that there were a number of occasions where I was told I'd had enough. But these were usually in more "respectable" watering holes. There are also plenty of dives and early houses that rely on alcoholics for their business.

Also, it's a bit of a myth that an alcoholic that goes to a pub will drink non-stop until they are sh*t-faced. Very often, they will have a few drinks at home before they go to the pub and a few more when they get back. In fact, even in the worst of my drinking, I would make a point when meeting friends NOT to drink more than them at the pub - the real drinking was done in secret at home. In this way I hid it for quite a long time.

The times where I did drink to excess in a pub I was on my own. Alcoholism is a very lonely, isolating disease.

jbt123

The Backwards Man wrote: »

Alcoholics didn't get served in any pub I worked in. We did OK.

How did you know they were/weren't alcoholics?

Did you apply some diagnostic test on the spot?

Just curious about the identification procedures....

hatrickpatrick

The Backwards Man wrote: »

Still, I suppose it's indicative of the shocking attitude most people have to alcohol in this country.

This thread is primarily not about alcohol for me. Consenting adults should be allowed to do whatever the f*ck they want, self-destructive or not. I apply the same logic to everything, from drug use to prostitution.

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2smiggy

an alcoholic does not really mean being drunk thou. I know plenty of alcoholics who go to the pub 10.30am , and come evening time you would not be sure if they were after more than a couple of pints. not saying it's not a miserable existence, but it's a lot better sitting in the pub telling the same stories to each other over and over again, rather than being refused service and drinking cans and bottles of spirits in a house by themselves.

SAMTALK

The Backwards Man wrote: »

If he doesn't he'll soon find out . .

And the old 'shure they'll get it somewhere else anyway' excuse doesn't wash with me either

What happens to the person who has Cirrhosis of the liver? Does the barman look for a clean bill of health before serving them?
Person with lung cancer buying cigarettes in the local shop. Are they to refuse to serve them?

We are not a great country for taking personal responsibility

It always has to be down to someone/something else causing or solving problems

The Backwards Man

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

This thread is primarily not about alcohol for me. Consenting adults should be allowed to do whatever the f*ck they want, self-destructive or not. I apply the same logic to everything, from drug use to prostitution.

And to hell with anyone else who suffers the consequences yeah?

The Backwards Man

SAMTALK wrote: »

What happens to the person who has Cirrhosis of the liver? Does the barman look for a clean bill of health before serving them?
Person with lung cancer buying cigarettes in the local shop. Are they to refuse to serve them?

We are not a great country for taking personal responsibility

It always has to be down to someone/something else causing or solving problems

If I know you have liver disease I'm not serving you either. You talk about personal responsibility, that's me exercising mine.

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southstar

The Backwards Man wrote: »

And to hell with anyone else who suffers the consequences yeah?

I find it hard to take your comment seriously given you've that you claim never to have served an alcoholic...pubs are full of alcoholics of all demeanours.

suicide_circus

El Weirdo wrote: »

I've refused to serve people regularly. I have also been refused service myself.

Oh I've seen it happen but its an extreme rarity. I've seen people who are visibly rat arsed and slurring being served on countless occasions, myself included!

The Backwards Man

jbt123 wrote: »

How did you know they were/weren't alcoholics?

Did you apply some diagnostic test on the spot?

Just curious about the identification procedures....

Well, we're into real world diagnostics here as opposed to medical ones.

If you know someone is incapable of having a drink without winding up in a stupor or a coma, they don't get served.

If you know someone is drinking money that's needed to feed the kids or pay bills, they don't get served

If you know someone is endangering the lives of themselves or others at work as a result of their drinking, they don't get served.

And so on.

It's not rocket science, and you can call it an invasion of privacy or an infringement of rights or whatever the fcuk you want, but I'll stand over it all day long.

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Dravokivich

....... wrote: »

No. The barman isnt his keeper.

But I thought they are not supposed to sell alcohol to someone who is drunk?

The Backwards Man

....... wrote: »

Grand, to refuse an alcoholic alcohol can result in DTs that will kill them with the severity. So well done you.

You're in cuckooland now altogether! Anyone suffering alcohol withdrawal symptoms of that severity would be nowhere near a pub to start with.

Jesus Christ, I don't know whether to laugh or cry at some of ye.

Estrellita

Winterlong wrote: »

That is very debatable. The person makes the decisions IMO, they have the responsibility.

Don't agree. An alcoholic who has been told they will die if they drink any more and continues to do so, isn't making an active decision they want to die. They are essentially too weak and out of control to make the right decision for themselves to stop.

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The Backwards Man

....... wrote: »

Jaysus, your experience must be limited.

The symptoms only start after youve been denied the booze.

So, Backwards Man, this coroner's court has convened to determine why a man died of acute alcohol poisoning on your premises?

Well, your Honour, it was either that or he was going to die from the DTs . .

Would you ever cop yourself on?

SAMTALK

The Backwards Man wrote: »

If I know you have liver disease I'm not serving you either. You talk about personal responsibility, that's me exercising mine.

To be honest I dont think so. Its up to the persons themselves to make a decision on whether to have that drink or not.
No point in them saying "ah sur your man knew I had liver disease and still served me"
Maybe barmen / shop assistants should stop serving drink and cigarettes altogether to save people from the horrors of liver disease/lung disease or addiction? Prevention is better than cure after all

Elmo

Pubs should refuse to serve if he is legless, serving him a up to that point. If he enters drunk he should also be refused. But not serving him at all wouldn't help. Maybe you should join him for a drink and talk with him see how he is.

hatrickpatrick

The Backwards Man wrote: »

And to hell with anyone else who suffers the consequences yeah?

Such as?

The Backwards Man

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Such as?

As I said above, the kids on the house that are going hungry, the wife that gets a pot of boiling water thrown over here, the fireman that suffers from smoke inhalation putting out the chip pan fire. There are always consequences

And yeah, you can say all those things will happen regardless, and there's a good chance can they will. But are you happy being a party to them?

El Tarangu

begbysback wrote: »

Bring it to the legal forum and see what they say about the scenario where:

Man walks into a bar and says, can I have a pint of Guinness please?
Barman: no your an alcoholic I am not serving you.

Sounds more like potential slander, but I take your point.

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