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Bar serving an alcoholic

pappyodaniel

A guy I know in my hometown has recently fell off the wagon and is back drinking again. I'd say he was dry for the last 3 years where he had become hard working and successful in his self employed job. Yesterday I spotted him legless and falling out of the local pub and this morning I spotted him outside the same pub with a pint in one hand and a cigarette in the other.

What he does with his life is his own business but do you think the barman has a duty of care not to serve him as he's enabling him to drink? I remember him from years ago as a terrible alcoholic, sh1tting his pants, domestic violence and getting arrested for being drunk and disorderly and seeing him off the booze was amazing. It's sad to see him now.

So what do ye think, should the barman not serve him on principle?

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The Backwards Man

begbysback wrote: »

Bring it to the legal forum and see what they say about the scenario where:

Man walks into a bar and says, can I have a pint of Guinness please?
Barman: I am not serving you.

FYP

Problem solved

[Deleted User]

The Backwards Man wrote: »

FYP

Problem solved

Pub owner to barman: Why are you turning away one of our best customers?

The Backwards Man

....... wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

If he doesn't he'll soon find out . .

And the old 'shure they'll get it somewhere else anyway' excuse doesn't wash with me either

.......

This post has been deleted.

Atoms for Peace

If barmen stopped serving alcoholics, every grubby old man's pub would be out of business by the end of the week.

The Backwards Man

Nora Shy Backup wrote: »

Pub owner to barman: Why are you turning away one of our best customers?

Barman to pubowner: If you're too stupid to know one man slabbering over 12 pints is keeping away half a dozen punters drinking you can stick your job up your ignorant hole

amcalester

The Backwards Man wrote: »

Oh, I know a wee bit about the subject alright.

Just because you're not responsible for someone's alcoholism does not absolve you of the responsibility for serving them alcohol. An alcoholic is sick, a barperson serving them is a sick joke of an excuse for a human being

What about the shopkeeper selling cigarettes?

5 times as many people die from smoking related diseases than alcohol in Ireland.

I'm sure any barman would rather the alcoholic didn't drink but ultimately that's his or her choice.

VinLieger

The Backwards Man wrote: »

If he doesn't he'll soon find out . .

And the old 'shure they'll get it somewhere else anyway' excuse doesn't wash with me either

Any reason why or are you just living in some fantasy land? If an alcoholic wants to have a drink they are gonna have a drink, you claim to have knowledge of the issue but don't seem to be aware of that simple fact

The Backwards Man

Atoms for Peace wrote: »

If barmen stopped serving alcoholics, every grubby old man's pub would be out of business by the end of the week.

Alcoholics didn't get served in any pub I worked in. We did OK.

VinLieger

The Backwards Man wrote: »

Alcoholics didn't get served in any pub I worked in. We did OK.

So you are saying theres absolutely zero possibility you have ever served an alcoholic without knowing?

Imallrightjack

Is there a difference between refusing to serve an intoxicated person who produces a set of car keys,with a view to driving home and refusing to serve a person whom they know is an alcoholic?

in the first situation the bar man is taking responsibility.why cant he do the same in the second situation?

The Backwards Man

VinLieger wrote: »

Any reason why or are you just living in some fantasy land? If an alcoholic wants to have a drink they are gonna have a drink, you claim to have knowledge of the issue but don't seem to be aware of that simple fact

Yeah, I know they will.

Using that fact as justification for being the one to give them the drink, that's what doesn't wash with me. If you're knowingly giving an alcoholic drink you are a useless cnut.

JupiterKid

Don't forget that many - if not most alcoholics - have built up a huge tolerance for alcohol and might appear to get clearly intoxicated after many more drinks than a normal drinker. Alcoholics are also very adept at hiding their drinking - breath freshening mints, a glass of lime water, whatever. I know because I've been there, done that.

Also many alcoholics do most of their drinking at home - bars are expensive when you drink a lot. I myself would have had several drinks before heading out to socialise and a few when I got home.

It can be very hard for a barman to discern an alcoholic from a binge drinker unless he/she is frequenting the pub and constantly falling out of the place. Even then, I know many pubs that will serve you up to that point. It's about profit for them.

The Backwards Man

VinLieger wrote: »

So you are saying theres absolutely zero possibility you have ever served an alcoholic without knowing?

There's zero possibility I've ever served someone I've known to be an alcoholic.

Chancer3001

Fast food person not serving an obese person would go to cork and be sued.

Same thing here.

VinLieger

The Backwards Man wrote: »

Yeah, I know they will.

Using that fact as justification for being the one to give them the drink, that's what doesn't wash with me. If you're knowingly giving an alcoholic drink you are a useless cnut.

And you seem to view the world in black and white which it very much is not.

What about the possibility that them drinking there means they arent downing a bottle of vodka in an alley somewhere? IE they are in a far safer situation than they could possibly be in.
Your argument literally amounts to "if I cant see it then its not my problem" which is exactly opposite to what you are claiming in that they take responsibility which by not serving them and making them someone elses problem they are actually putting that responsibility on somebody else which imo is pretty fcking selfish.

VinLieger

The Backwards Man wrote: »

There's zero possibility I've ever served someone I've known to be an alcoholic.

Hows the air up there on your responsibility free high horse? By not serving them you just made them somebody elses problem thats not taking responsibility for your actions thats just being selfish

stimpson

Chancer3001 wrote: »

Fast food person not serving an obese person would go to cork and be sued.

Same thing here.

They could even sue them in Dublin.

begbysback

The Backwards Man wrote: »

There's zero possibility I've ever served someone I've known to be an alcoholic.

How do you diagnose someone with such an illness, medical doctors can't even diagnose with certainty - just because someone drinks too much or does stupid things while drunk? Is this what your assessment is based on?

Stonedpilot

pappyodaniel wrote: »

A guy I know in my hometown has recently fell off the wagon and is back drinking again. I'd say he was dry for the last 3 years where he had become hard working and successful in his self employed job. Yesterday I spotted him legless and falling out of the local pub and this morning I spotted him outside the same pub with a pint in one hand and a cigarette in the other.

What he does with his life is his own business but do you think the barman has a duty of care not to serve him as he's enabling him to drink? I remember him from years ago as a terrible alcoholic, sh1tting his pants, domestic violence and getting arrested for being drunk and disorderly and seeing him off the booze was amazing. It's sad to see him now.

So what do ye think, should the barman not serve him on principle?

What he does with his own life is his business yet you want to post about him on this?.

It's not up to you to define him as an alcoholic surprisingly it's self diagnosed. Case in point, someone could drink 5 bottles of Vodka a day and never admit being an alcoholic, others might drink half a bottle of vodka but admit being an alcoholic. Other peoples opinions don't mean a thing though to an alcoholics ego, many people will drink themselves to a coma and not admit it.

Alcoholism has very very little to do with drinking and alot to do with thinking, not whats in the bottle makes you drink it's whats in your head.

Let the barman serve him, as you said it's none of your business.

If it wasn't for alcoholics most bars be shut down ages ago. Many alcoholics are functioning holding down jobs/careers/families etc.

Met one very successful guy who owns companies, millions to his name regularly on tv and he's a self admitted alcoholic.

Other people calling you an alcoholic doesn't mean a thing, has to be admitted by the person in question. Thus you calling him one doesn't make him one.
In fact ironically many many 'hard drinkers' would drink an awful lot more than alcoholics, alot more.

The Backwards Man

VinLieger wrote: »

And you seem to view the world in black and white which it very much is not.

What about the possibility that them drinking there means they arent downing a bottle of vodka in an alley somewhere? IE they are in a far safer situation than they could possibly be in.
Your argument literally amounts to "if I cant see it then its not my problem" which is exactly opposite to what you are claiming in that they take responsibility which by not serving them and making them someone elses problem they are actually putting that responsibility on somebody else which imo is pretty fcking selfish.

Yeah, I don't want to be the one pouring the drink down oul lad's throat until it kills him
I don't want to be the one that gave the bottle of vodka to the woman that passed out on her baby and smothered it

I don't want to be the one that served the alcoholic that killed himself and three others in a car crash

How fcuking selfish of me alright.

suicide_circus

The pub can (and must) refuse to serve him on the grounds of drunkenness but I don't think there's any onus on them legally to refuse an alcoholic, sure that's the basis of their whole trade surely?

VinLieger

The Backwards Man wrote: »

Yeah, I don't want to be the one pouring the drink down oul lad's throat until it kills him
I don't want to be the one that gave the bottle of vodka to the woman that passed out on her baby and smothered it

I don't want to be the one that served the alcoholic that killed himself and three others in a car crash

How fcuking selfish of me alright.

Your not solving any problem though??? Your just happy as long as its not your fault which yes is actually quite selfish

The Backwards Man

begbysback wrote: »

How do you diagnose someone with such an illness, medical doctors can't even diagnose with certainty - just because someone drinks too much or does stupid things while drunk? Is this what your assessment is based on?

An alcoholic from a responsible adult's perspective, is anyone who lets their drinking interfere with other aspects of their life, be it work, family life, whatever. Once the drink starts handling you instead of the other way around, then you are an alcoholic.

The Backwards Man

VinLieger wrote: »

Your not solving any problem though??? Your just happy as long as its not your fault which yes is actually quite selfish

Leave out the part that says I'm happy and I can live with that.

VinLieger

The Backwards Man wrote: »

Leave out the part that says I'm happy and I can live with that.

So you don't actually care about the person in question just your own moral high ground?

The Backwards Man

VinLieger wrote: »

So you don't actually care about the person in question just your own moral high ground?

Yeah, because the only thing anyone can ever do for someone with alcoholism is give them a drink.

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This post has been deleted.

Estrellita

It's rather amusing that the words 'adults personal responsibility' and 'alcoholic' are being used in the same sentences. Alcoholics have no sense of personal responsibility when it comes to alcohol, because it isn't them that are making the decisions, it's the addiction.

Regarding serving one? I'd like to say no full stop, but I understand pubs must make money. I do feel however that there is a line not to be crossed. Hand-picking alcoholics out, no. Serving anyone until they are legless and a danger to themselves, that shouldn't happen either.

suicide_circus

Always makes me laugh when the vintners lobby for controls and limitations on the off-trade on the grounds of public health when each and every one of us have witnessed their members actively and eagerly facilitating the death and misery of countless irish people and their families. Deeply cynical hypocrites. Can't remember the last time I saw one refusing to serve someone on the basis of having had enough either.