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Donegal GAA Discussion Thread

harpsman

Thought I d throw this up see if theres any interest.
Opinions on new backroom team,reasons for departure of old one, McGuinness claim that his players had 9 games in 11 weeks during championship season, possible new players or anything else!!

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charlie14

Deleted User wrote: »

I'd agree that most of the lads who retired were well into their thirties. Still, leaving en masse the way they did surprised me. I expected it to be staggered over two or three years, to allow the younger lads to "bed in" as it were.

Certainly, if I were building a team, that's the way I would have tried to have it happen - younger lads being introduced to train with the experienced players, and learning from them, while still being competitive enough to play against the top teams.

Instead, we have a situation where the experienced players are not being played, and the game plan leaves a lot to be desired.

I can't comment on the Naomh Conaill lads, I don't know what's going on there - but I do know that RGs team building strategy is farcical, any way you look at it.

Add the very questionable substitution decisions, and his comments on Donegal Daily today - and it's beginning to look very much as if he's actively pushing the old team out.
If that's the case, it's not the best option for the young lads coming in, and it raises an awful lot of questions about his ability to either manage the team at all, or plan in any sensible way for the future well-being of the lads and the team.

Unfortunately, if that Donegal Daily interview is any guide, he doesn't seem to have considered leaving, more's the pity - rather, he comes across as someone who blamed the players for yesterdays performance, and as if he is suggesting the experienced players should leave.

That doesn't bode well, imo - and, if I were one of the Donegal players, I'd be getting very "mouthy" about his discussing retirements without having discussed it with his players first. That, alone, shows a lot about his management style - and, sadly, a complete lack of respect for his players.

Any objective listener to that DD interview should be left with questions - ones that RG should be made to answer, imo.

It has gone well past time that the County Board stepped in and tell this self serving charlatan for himself and his bullst1te to take a hike, and to bring that eejit Curran, who is/has made us a laughing stock with him.

The chances of that happening with a county board that showed disrespect to a manager during his tenure who took us from the shambles we were in 2010, when nobody else wanted the job, to the greatest era in our footballing history is slim.
This is a county board who gave this charlatan chancer, who was rejected by Jim McGuinness as not up to standard, the job in the first place and then extended his contract for what I can see no other reason than an attempt to downplay Jim McGuinness`s achievements.

Donegal county board, like all county boards, are elected by club delegates that are answerable to their club members.
If this county board refuse to act and do what has been obvious for quite some time needs to be done, then it is time for club members to let their delegates know in the strongest terms that this fiasco has to end.
Otherwise we are looking at a generation of talented young footballers from recent minor and U21 teams being wasted.

Nidgeweasel

Never known the media to be so coy about the ability of the manager.

It is bizarre, the narrative being out forward is about not pointing fingers and a young team needing time.

Don't think anybody is in any doubt as to where the team is at but this doesn't mean that the manager isn't a turkey. You can still expect a lot better and at the very least a team be organised and getting the basics right- our basics are going in the other direction.

The manager needs removing immediately but he won't. We'll have another 2 years of this sh*te by which stage we will have lost Karlo, Frank, Neil and Michael will be another 2 years down the line.

It is pointless.

[Deleted User]

Nidgeweasel wrote: »

Never known the media to be so coy about the ability of the manager.

It is bizarre, the narrative being out forward is about not pointing fingers and a young team needing time.

Don't think anybody is in any doubt as to where the team is at but this doesn't mean that the manager isn't a turkey. You can still expect a lot better and at the very least a team be organised and getting the basics right- our basics are going in the other direction.

The manager needs removing immediately but he won't. We'll have another 2 years of this sh*te by which stage we will have lost Karlo, Frank, Neil and Michael will be another 2 years down the line.

It is pointless.

As Charlie14 said, maybe it's time for the grassroots to start making their voices heard?

It's clear Rory Gallagher has no intention of leaving of his own accord, preferring instead to humiliate his players in interviews, by referring to specific incidents where the player in question is easily identified, and suggesting that the senior members are retiring, while admitting that he hasn't discussed it with them.

It's one thing to say the teams performance was disappointing - it's another entirely to single out incidents where players are clearly identifiable for criticism.
That's no way to build team morale - but it's a very good tactic to bring it crashing to the ground.

I'm so angry on behalf of the team! They deserve better.

At this point, I'm wondering whether he's deliberately trying to destroy the team. No-one could be clueless enough to give that interview after working with Jim McGuinness, without knowing just how much damage it could do.
The very first building block in building a team - any team, sports or otherwise - is mutual respect and loyalty - everything else follows from that, including motivation, and building up skills.

Any manager who doesn't understand that doesn't deserve/can't handle the position of manager.

Rory Gallagher either doesn't understand that, or chooses to ignore it.

Either way, any group of lads who give their time and energy to the level of training necessary in County football deserve better - and they should get it! #Rory out!

Sephiral

I'm not sure that the 'team in transition' argument holds much water when the manager just finished his third year. You have to introduce players gradually and that is what he should have been attempting over the last three years. There is a very real danger that a whole generation of players will get lots of experience, all of it losing. The mentality that builds is toxic and incredibly difficult to get away from. The main thing Jim did, was to make a very talented generation of Donegal players believe they could win. It was the workrate and determination stemming from that belief that allowed Donegal to excel. The tactical stuff was never that complicated or the main factor. It was the mental preparation.

Redsoxfan

Hey, I was against the appointment of Rory Gallagher from the start, and nothing I have seen since or heard since has changed my opinion in the slightest, but some of the stuff being said here is just fodder for the high horse hacks and more suited to Facepage and the likes.

Anyway.

Last night was shocking. Up there with Cork 2009 and Mayo 2013 as games I was at where we were well and truly embarrassed. There was some context to both those defeats - Cork were a very good team and won the All Ireland the following year (could/should have won more) and we were coming off an All Ireland in 2013 facing a highly motivated and very good Mayo team. Galway played well last night, but we'll see how good they really are against Kerry. Fair play to them, they picked themselves up from a massive disappointment in the Connacht Final and some of their attacking play was excellent, but to be honest, they were accommodated by our own display.

Like the defeat to Tyrone, we can't point fingers at any one player, it was a collective failure from back to front. Our kickouts were a disaster, defence a shambles, and attacking strategy seemed limited to trying to run Eoin McHugh down the left and win frees.

Why drop O'Reilly and Thompson, both players who have started all year only to bring them on? Why start Mark McHugh who is a busted flush? Subs stinked of desperation.

A few things are pretty obvious to me at least:

Michael Murphy is a forward. Not a midfielder, not a corner back, not a sweeper etc. He shouldn't appear in our own 45 until we are trying to hang on to a lead. Not sure he or the manager needs to decide this, but the decision needs to be made sooner than later that he belongs primarily at full forward and we need to play to his strengths, not ask him to fill gaps elsewhere. Fine, some days there will be times where he can't get away from a Vinny Corey or two men, but we need to deal with it. Move him to half forward or use him as a decoy, anything other than what was tried this year. Sad to see him falling around in the full back line for two of the goals last night. He gives it everything but he can't be everything we need.

We need a physical presence to allow Jason McGee to do his thing at midfield. I'm thinking of someone to play the role that Kevin Cassidy played once upon a time. Not sure who that is. Ciaran McGinley has been tried and returned. Caolan McGonagle and Tony McCleneghan have played that role for the underage sides. Martin McElhinney doesn't look like he has what it takes and his discipline is awful. But I am not sure that any of them is the answer. I just feel that we need that sort of player.

Pretty obvious that there are serious issues without our kickouts. We are not the only County with that problem in fairness, but it's amazing that things have gone downhill so much from where they were 3-4 years ago. Granted, it took a long time for Papa to develop, but we don't seem to be making any progress since he left. I don't know if it's the keeper or the outfield players, but something needs to be done.

Our defence needs to tighten up. So many bodies, so little responsibility. Lacey gave an exhibition last night of how to tackle in the short time he was on the pitch. Guys like Ward and Gallagher might be good on the ball, but they need to prove them can defend. Gillespie has had a tough year with injury after a promising 2016 so hopefully he can be what we need. Teams have also figured out that if you can drag Neil McGee out of the full back line we will struggle. He needs to hold the square.

Discipline. Bad tackling followed by chat to the referee. Needs to stop. Didn't happen under McGuinness, why is it happening now?

We need to have more physicality. We look weak in the tackle, going forward and defending. Some of that might be strength and conditioning, but we also need more physical players. We have too many undersized players.

At least if this is the end for Frank McGlynn he got a round of applause when hauled off. We know what he has given for the jersey and he will go down as one of our greats. As for Karl Lacey, what can you say. I read that he was in tears at the final whistle (not ashamed to say I left when Paddy missed the penalty) and for me, he is the finest player I have seen in a Donegal jersey. We'll wait to hear on these two, but it's hard to see them coming back.

Rory Gallagher is not the right man to develop the underage talent. Consider his record with a very talented group of Under 21s and his treatment of younger players in general. His tactics are absolute poison and his screaming and shouting and use of Maxi smack of someone who is out of his depth. He doesn't sound like he's going to quit. Will the County Board or the players do what most of the supporters seem to want? I dunno about Declan Bonner. His underage teams have done well in Ulster but have largely let down against better opposition.

Pretty depressing. We don't have any right to feel we can beat the likes of Tyrone or Galway, but the performances witnessed against both were so poor, as bad as anything I can recall for a while now. We may survive in Division One if we put in a big shift in the winter, but come Championship we will probably be found out again as I don't see things getting any better next year.

Tl;dr #roryout

logie110

Redsoxfan wrote: »

Hey, I was against the appointment of Rory Gallagher from the start, and nothing I have seen since or heard since has changed my opinion in the slightest, but some of the stuff being said here is just fodder for the high horse hacks and more suited to Facepage and the likes.

Anyway.

Last night was shocking. Up there with Cork 2009 and Mayo 2013 as games I was at where we were well and truly embarrassed. There was some context to both those defeats - Cork were a very good team and won the All Ireland the following year (could/should have won more) and we were coming off an All Ireland in 2013 facing a highly motivated and very good Mayo team. Galway played well last night, but we'll see how good they really are against Kerry. Fair play to them, they picked themselves up from a massive disappointment in the Connacht Final and some of their attacking play was excellent, but to be honest, they were accommodated by our own display.

Like the defeat to Tyrone, we can't point fingers at any one player, it was a collective failure from back to front. Our kickouts were a disaster, defence a shambles, and attacking strategy seemed limited to trying to run Eoin McHugh down the left and win frees.

Why drop O'Reilly and Thompson, both players who have started all year only to bring them on? Why start Mark McHugh who is a busted flush? Subs stinked of desperation.

A few things are pretty obvious to me at least:

Michael Murphy is a forward. Not a midfielder, not a corner back, not a sweeper etc. He shouldn't appear in our own 45 until we are trying to hang on to a lead. Not sure he or the manager needs to decide this, but the decision needs to be made sooner than later that he belongs primarily at full forward and we need to play to his strengths, not ask him to fill gaps elsewhere. Fine, some days there will be times where he can't get away from a Vinny Corey or two men, but we need to deal with it. Move him to half forward or use him as a decoy, anything other than what was tried this year. Sad to see him falling around in the full back line for two of the goals last night. He gives it everything but he can't be everything we need.

We need a physical presence to allow Jason McGee to do his thing at midfield. I'm thinking of someone to play the role that Kevin Cassidy played once upon a time. Not sure who that is. Ciaran McGinley has been tried and returned. Caolan McGonagle and Tony McCleneghan have played that role for the underage sides. Martin McElhinney doesn't look like he has what it takes and his discipline is awful. But I am not sure that any of them is the answer. I just feel that we need that sort of player.

Pretty obvious that there are serious issues without our kickouts. We are not the only County with that problem in fairness, but it's amazing that things have gone downhill so much from where they were 3-4 years ago. Granted, it took a long time for Papa to develop, but we don't seem to be making any progress since he left. I don't know if it's the keeper or the outfield players, but something needs to be done.

Our defence needs to tighten up. So many bodies, so little responsibility. Lacey gave an exhibition last night of how to tackle in the short time he was on the pitch. Guys like Ward and Gallagher might be good on the ball, but they need to prove them can defend. Gillespie has had a tough year with injury after a promising 2016 so hopefully he can be what we need. Teams have also figured out that if you can drag Neil McGee out of the full back line we will struggle. He needs to hold the square.

Discipline. Bad tackling followed by chat to the referee. Needs to stop. Didn't happen under McGuinness, why is it happening now?

We need to have more physicality. We look weak in the tackle, going forward and defending. Some of that might be strength and conditioning, but we also need more physical players. We have too many undersized players.

At least if this is the end for Frank McGlynn he got a round of applause when hauled off. We know what he has given for the jersey and he will go down as one of our greats. As for Karl Lacey, what can you say. I read that he was in tears at the final whistle (not ashamed to say I left when Paddy missed the penalty) and for me, he is the finest player I have seen in a Donegal jersey. We'll wait to hear on these two, but it's hard to see them coming back.

Rory Gallagher is not the right man to develop the underage talent. Consider his record with a very talented group of Under 21s and his treatment of younger players in general. His tactics are absolute poison and his screaming and shouting and use of Maxi smack of someone who is out of his depth. He doesn't sound like he's going to quit. Will the County Board or the players do what most of the supporters seem to want? I dunno about Declan Bonner. His underage teams have done well in Ulster but have largely let down against better opposition.

Pretty depressing. We don't have any right to feel we can beat the likes of Tyrone or Galway, but the performances witnessed against both were so poor, as bad as anything I can recall for a while now. We may survive in Division One if we put in a big shift in the winter, but come Championship we will probably be found out again as I don't see things getting any better next year.

Tl;dr #roryout

Couldn't of said it better redsox

logie110

If county board sack him, whats the consequences?

Ceist_Beag

I'm not going to mention the obvious as it has been said enough already. I feel too angry to compose any rational thoughts right now but I couldn't have put it better than rsf. The Murphy experiment is over. Put him back full forward and tell him he is not allowed back in his own half. Tomas O'Se made a very good point on tsg this evening. The so called super eight comes in next year and we need to be in there. It will be even more important than being a division one team. We need to get our management team right to give ourselves every chance of being in there. We have no God given right to reach quarter finals but one thing is for sure, our players deserve better than they are getting.

Nidgeweasel

logie110 wrote: »

If county board sack him, whats the consequences?

Consequences are they look for a new management team.

It's just so bad at the minute. My head hurts thinking about it.

Stoner

Redsoxfan wrote:

Tl;dr #roryout

You can't do a TLDR on your own post. That's for us.

AnthonyCny

Your man oisin from highland sport must be friendly with RG? Won't say a bad word against him. Young squad , retirements etc

Redsoxfan

Stoner wrote:

You can't do a TLDR on your own post. That's for us.

Ah, the Rory Gallagher style.

Don2012

I was chatting to somone yesterday about the game and their viewpoint on the problem being that current players and upcoming players don't want to play for Donegal anymore and would prefer playing for their clubs because when they play for Donegal they very seldom get the chance to play for their clubs. Viewpoints on this?

BonnieSituation

Don2012 wrote: »

I was chatting to somone yesterday about the game and their viewpoint on the problem being that current players and upcoming players don't want to play for Donegal anymore and would prefer playing for their clubs because when they play for Donegal they very seldom get the chance to play for their clubs. Viewpoints on this?

But the clubs don't play when Donegal plays?

---

EDIT: Brendan Devenney on OTB saying the lads have no problem with RG. Y'know.

[Deleted User]

BonnieSituation wrote: »

But the clubs don't play when Donegal plays?

---

EDIT: Brendan Dennehy on OTB saying the lads have no problem with RG. Y'know.

Hmm. I've read a lot of comments, from different sources, and it's possible that I missed it - but I haven't heard any of the team coming out and expressing confidence in RG, either.

Don2012

BonnieSituation wrote: »

But the clubs don't play when Donegal plays?

I think he was implying that they are better off not playing for the county and prefer playing for their clubs.

Redsoxfan

Deleted User wrote:

Hmm. I've read a lot of comments, from different sources, and it's possible that I missed it - but I haven't heard any of the team coming out and expressing confidence in RG, either.

They gave him a vote of confidence at the outset. One theory I have heard is that they were keen on Rory because they didn't want the alternative.

Hard to believe watching this team they have any confidence in him. If that is the case then I hope there is a reckoning sooner rather than later.

ghostfacekilla

[/quote]Brendan Dennehy on OTB saying the lads have no problem with RG. Y'know.[/quote]

Classic Stockholm syndrome.

gooner99

Off the ball podcast....

http://offtheball.newstalk.com/player/podcasts/-/GAA_on_Off_The_Ball/199880/1/donegal_fall_flat_galway_march_on_mayo_on_the_up

babybuilder

gooner99 wrote: »

Off the ball podcast....

http://offtheball.newstalk.com/player/podcasts/-/GAA_on_Off_The_Ball/199880/1/donegal_fall_flat_galway_march_on_mayo_on_the_up

Heard that interview. Devenny was circumspect and ambivalent. Laid the blame re poor championship on emphasis in national league. Said they'd peaked early. I don't buy that for a moment. No mention of stone age tactics. Also Devenny alluded to RG being a good coach. What have these commentators/analysts been watching these last three years? Briefly postulated Bonner should be brought in to back up RG.

charlie14

babybuilder wrote: »

Heard that interview. Devenny was circumspect and ambivalent. Laid the blame re poor championship on emphasis in national league. Said they'd peaked early. I don't buy that for a moment. No mention of stone age tactics. Also Devenny alluded to RG being a good coach. What have these commentators/analysts been watching these last three years? Briefly postulated Bonner should be brought in to back up RG.

Devenny whether he realised it or not is only giving Gallagher more ammo for more bullsh1t excuses.

"Well Rocommon you know, last year in the league, you know, also did well you know, and then had a, you know, poor championship, but this year, you know, they are Connaught champions you know......"

Nidgeweasel

Gallagher's auld fella abused on Saturday - apparently.

No place for that if true.

doc_17

Those young players will get better when they playeat he's as well as train at a high level. Playing matches with their clubs, whilst adhering to the 13 day rule, will allow them to develop their in-game ability parallel to their physique etc. Plus, playing against inferior players will allow them to develop their confidence, something that we were lacking since the Tyrone annihilation.

The manager recienved an extension to his arrangement and laid out the problems we faced over the next few years. It is most unlikely that County Committee will rescind the mandate they handed him.

[Deleted User]

babybuilder wrote: »

Heard that interview. Devenny was circumspect and ambivalent. Laid the blame re poor championship on emphasis in national league. Said they'd peaked early. I don't buy that for a moment. No mention of stone age tactics. Also Devenny alluded to RG being a good coach. What have these commentators/analysts been watching these last three years? Briefly postulated Bonner should be brought in to back up RG.

I don't know.

I would take that interview as a very tactful criticism of Rory Gallagher.

Comments about taking Declan Bonner in, something needs to change drastically, peaking during the league, we'll be sliding down the league shortly - these are all comments that could be taken as criticism of management.

He went on after that to chat about the younger players, and how nobody seemed to know what they were doing - followed by the comments about another year or two of strength and conditioning being needed (which is a fair comment, and something we all knew, tbf!)

The other interesting comment was "Rory Gallagher is a very good coach" - not a very good manager.

All in all, I would take that as veiled criticism, tbh - but maybe I'm hearing what I want to hear?

Surely it's the managers job to make sure the team don't peak too early, for instance? And it's definitely his job to make sure everyone knows what they're doing, and are motivated, even if he has to bring someone in to help motivate them.

All in all, when you read between the lines, RG didn't get off scot-free in that interview, imo anyway.

Don2012

doc_17 wrote: »

The manager recienved an extension to his arrangement and laid out the problems we faced over the next few years. It is most unlikely that County Committee will rescind the mandate they handed him.

I agree I think we are stuck with him and his team for another year at least. He is so stubborn to resign and after Saturdays nightmare he still blames the players! He needs to go asap before he destroys the team completely.

Nidgeweasel

Do not get the narrative at all.

Cunningham has an article out saying people need to give the players time.

Unless I am missing something - you can understand the team is in transition but still think Gallagher is useless.

I don't not understand people failing to grasp this.

Cries of being 'spoilt' etc abound also. Which is ridiculous.

PARlance

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I don't know.

I would take that interview as a very tactful criticism of Rory Gallagher.

Comments about taking Declan Bonner in, something needs to change drastically, peaking during the league, we'll be sliding down the league shortly - these are all comments that could be taken as criticism of management.

He went on after that to chat about the younger players, and how nobody seemed to know what they were doing - followed by the comments about another year or two of strength and conditioning being needed (which is a fair comment, and something we all knew, tbf!)

The other interesting comment was "Rory Gallagher is a very good coach" - not a very good manager.

All in all, I would take that as veiled criticism, tbh - but maybe I'm hearing what I want to hear?

Surely it's the managers job to make sure the team don't peak too early, for instance? And it's definitely his job to make sure everyone knows what they're doing, and are motivated, even if he has to bring someone in to help motivate them.

All in all, when you read between the lines, RG didn't get off scot-free in that interview, imo anyway.

As a neutral, that's exactly what I took out of it. He obviously didn't want to slate him and he said a few things (players like him etc etc) that left me thinking that he thought he was good to have around... as a coach and not a manager.

Nidgeweasel

PARlance wrote: »

As a neutral, that's exactly what I took out of it. He obviously didn't want to slate him and he said a few things (players like him etc etc) that left me thinking that he thought he was good to have around... as a coach and not a manager.

On the evidence of the past 3 years I don't even think they are well coached.

PARlance

Nidgeweasel wrote: »

On the evidence of the past 3 years I don't even think they are well coached.

Was he not the brains behind Ji.....

*never enters Donegal thread again

Don2012

http://www.donegaldaily.com/2017/07/25/graph-of-uncertainty-as-donegal-come-to-terms-with-another-rude-awakening/

Rory really hasn't a clue. I honestly think he thinks they can't win! What ever happened to confidence in the players? "They can and will win" for example. When Rory doesn't know what he is doing himself how does he expect the players too? This article for example:

Gallagher said “We were well and truly beaten. We were outclassed all over the pitch. A couple of things didn’t go our way, but all those things added up to a lot.
"A couple of things didn't go our way" what planet is he on? Everything was wrong!

Supporters heading for the exits with the ending a long way in the distance and the body language on the field suggesting an acceptance of the writing that was scrawled on the gable wall before them.
Lack of belief and confidence in their ability. Basically they just gave up! This isn't Donegal! Gallagher is destroying our team!

Gallagher said: “We’ve been in difficulty at midfield for three years now.
Three year!! And he knows this and has still done nothing to chance it?

Gallagher said: “We threw boys in to try and turn the tide and that left us very light in the second half. It was a chance we were willing to take. We felt we had to throw extra lads at it. We had a lot who were under-performing and we wanted to get others in to try and pull it around.

His answer to everything! Just put them on and see how it goes eh Rory?