Irishweather wrote: » Religion, way of Life, attitudes, historical perspective.
Irishweather wrote: » If there is no cultural differences at all, then explain why Northern Ireland exists as a jurisdiction?
tomwaterford wrote: » Because at time of Irish independence northern Ireland accounted for circa 45% of irish economic output and it's was worth Britain's while to hold onto it Pure and utterly it's simply that....money talks.....don't ever fool yourself into thinking English care about music/culture (anything) above money
LeinsterDub wrote: » Why can't Irish be recognised alongside Ulster Scots, even if you refuse to accept Ulster Scots as a language? Do a Dev, cross your fingers about the bits you don't like and be pragmatic
blanch152 wrote: » A summary of public opinion constitutes evidence that the British cabinet didn't even consider unionists British? Are you seriously putting that out of context extract forward as evidence?
We are back to the fantasy world of one retired British general in one highly edited television interview being taken as conclusive evidence that the IRA weren't militarily defeated.
FrancieBrady wrote: » Because it has been invented/thrown in there to demean, once again, the Irish language. Look at what Paisley's objections were in 2007, not a mention of U-S. The Irish people have had enough of that. The time has come, are unionists going meet their obligations and allow full equality and normalisation or not.
LeinsterDub wrote: » I don't understand how accepting something is or is not a language impacts the status of Irish.
FrancieBrady wrote: » Of course you don't believe in a vibrant Irish language culture (which this act will promote) but it isn't about 'you'. It is about the people who identify as Irish and who are electing again and again, in increasing numbers, a party that is seeking an act on their behalf. A party that has already agreed this with the British government who have now suspended governing with another party who have sought to cherrypick only what is acceptable to their religiously fundamentalist and culturally bigoted code. Some of the very behaviour that led to the conflict in the first place.
tomwaterford wrote: » Sure we know you dislike Irish culture
FrancieBrady wrote: » What you are asking Irish people to do is once again accept a dilution of their request. It is a principle, 'that unionists dictate what they get' is what is at stake.
FrancieBrady wrote: » Because it has been invented/.
blanch152 wrote: » Not at all, I love Irish culture .
blanch152 wrote: » Everyone has to accept dilution of their requests - it is what compromise is all about. The unionists request a wholly British state, that request is being diluted. The nationalists want a united Ireland, that request is being diluted. What is wrong with the dilution of requests?
FrancieBrady wrote: » What you are asking Irish people to do is once again accept a dilution of their request. It is a principle, 'that unionists dictate what they get' is what is at stake. Unionism has invented the significance of Ulster Scots to give respectability to the cultural bigotry expressed by Ian Paisley in 2007. Because they know that that position is untenable so have invented the notion that Ulster Scots is on a par. It is no suprise that some here have swallowed that position as being credible. You only need to open your eyes and see how Irish is disparaged at executive level and below to see the real Unionist attitude to it.
FrancieBrady wrote: » But you don't want to pay for the most significant parts of it. You don't 'love' Irish culture, you 'love consuming it' is what you should be saying. There are many like you.
blanch152 wrote: » https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulster_Irish How many times to I have to point out that the Ulster Irish dialect died out in the 1970s and the Irish language being spoken in the North today is a purely invented importation of Irish from other parts of the island? Somehow this is not a problem for an Irish Language Act but it is for recognition of Ulster Scots.
blanch152 wrote: » The unionists request a wholly British state
end of the road wrote: » everything is wrong with it. it will never be truely like Finchley, the people there are not and never will be british. northern ireland is part of ireland, ruled by britain, but the people are irish. the british people don't recognise them as being british either.
FrancieBrady wrote: » NOBODY is not recognising Ulster Scots. How many times does it have to be said. Ulster Scots is not the issue. An agreement has been made and it is being blocked (as well as other significant rights) by the DUP who have invented the notion that Ulster Scots is important to them. So important that their leader forgot to mention it in his objections in 2007, preferring instead to engage in triumphalism and cultural bigotry.
blanch152 wrote: » Correction, I don't believe in paying for a vibrant Irish language culture. Not at all, I love Irish culture - U2, Thin Lizzy, Christy Moore, Makem and Clancy, Stockton's Wing, Bagatelle, Hot House Flowers, Corrs, have seen most of them in concert. Big GAA fan, follow the Irish soccer, cricket and rugby teams, read Roddy Doyle and John Connolly among others. You don't have to be a dyed in the wool RA supporter to love Irish culture. In fact, given the corrosive influence of the IRA on Irish culture, loving Irish culture is probably incompatible with having supported the IRA.
tomwaterford wrote: » And yet you dislike/ignorant of the irish language (don't see for a act to protect it FFS,)one of the most fundamental parts of a culture anywhere Reminds me of a sunday world,me fein mindset tbh
blanch152 wrote: » What is wrong with parity of esteem between them? It is the ultimate in triumphalism and cultural bigotry to assert that our resurrected few words are a language while their resurrected few words are a dialect.
blanch152 wrote: » Hold on, who has said that the most significant part of Irish culture is the language? I would strongly disagree. Sport and music are much more significant parts of Irish culture than the language, not just for their strength but also their distinctiveness. I would also think that the Irish generousity of spirit and the sense of humour are much more significant aspects of the Irish culture than the language. Culture is a living organic thing, changing all the time. Heritage is dead culture, the culture of the past. The language is a significant part of our heritage, but not of our culture.
LeinsterDub wrote: » Dilutions of your request is basically how democracy works. When a party is in coalition they'll need to dilute their policies. Even when in over all control factions and stakeholders within and outside of the party will lead to dilution. I'm aware of some unionist attitude to Irish or even anything Irish but surely a language act can protect Irish? I don't see how accepting U.S as on a par affects Irish. Let the baby have it's bottle. The smart play, the play to win over unionist to a UI is to be seen to be flexible and accepting. Not petty and sectarian.
blanch152 wrote: » I speak better Irish than most, doesn't stop from thinking that it is a dead language and not a fundamental part of the modern Irish culture. As I have already said, the language is a significant part of our history and our heritage, but it has no significant role today, either North or South. P.S. Adding a smilie to a glib insult doesn't make it any less of a glib insult.
tomwaterford wrote: » Why prior to the peace process has Ulster Scots not appeared as a.language option on a census Its the ultimate in unethical dishonesty to eqate the two, It's only pushed as a means to devalue and take the piss outta the Irish language,by those opposed to Irish culture
FrancieBrady wrote: » It is not about what YOU want, or how you feel about Irish. And you must be totally unaware of the surge in interest in the Irish language. I don't think all those kids attending Gael Scoilenna would take kindly to being described as part of our heritage and not a living breathing part of our culture.
tomwaterford wrote: » If the caps fits it's hardly a glib.insult Hardly a dead language,when those claiming fluency increased,Iñ.the last ceñsus in the free state When gaelscoils are booked out years in advance??, It's a, stunning language,and no reason fluency of it shouldn't be encouraged,had great fun backpacking with other Irish and learning Spanish complemented via it The view that it has no place is actually outdated nowadays,
