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FTP and cycle racing.

Alfasudcrazy

What sort of a FTP should I have for A4 racing. Not so that I win everything but just to not make a fool of myself. My current FTP is a bit weak at 208 watts but if I knew what was required I would have some idea where I need to get to as regards FTP.

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fondriest

Just wondering but has anyone here any knowledge of a rider being sanctioned or banned in Ireland in recent times ? If there is no deterrent then riders can still act like a complete p***** and get away it .

Miklos

Was anyone at the Mullingar GP yesterday? Testing enough course, stayed up the front and a bit off the front for the most part but a lapse in concentration saw me back in the bunch. The lack of moto-marshals and massive field meant it was ditch to ditch, making it pretty much impossible to move up, very frustrating. There must have been some one-day licences out there as there were some absolute clowns all over the shop. Nearly got taken out by a dropped bottle!

I sat up 1k from the line which proved to be wise as there was a pileup with 150m to go.

Stevieg2009

Miklos wrote: »

Was anyone at the Mullingar GP yesterday? Testing enough course, stayed up the front and a bit off the front for the most part but a lapse in concentration saw me back in the bunch. The lack of moto-marshals and massive field meant it was ditch to ditch, making it pretty much impossible to move up, very frustrating. There must have been some one-day licences out there as there were some absolute clowns all over the shop. Nearly got taken out by a dropped bottle!

I sat up 1k from the line which proved to be wise as there was a pileup with 150m to go.

Yeah I raced it or tried to 110 in that race complete joke on them roads was an accident waiting to happen the host club seemed to fill the race with there own members who I know don't race very regularly 1 day license I assume no bike marshal crazy stuff down the outside all day was just behind the crash some lads were in ribbons from what I saw good lads who race every week brought down by somebody no doubt who had no business being there it's all about bloody money

thekooman

Did the a3 race in Mullingar and with no junior due to the Junior Tour there was about 60 in the race. Good course with a few digs here and there.

not sure on the numbers in A4 but there must have been 120+? it looked like that and as the last poster mentioned it looked like a lot of 1 day licenses as well (purple numbers). There was pre-reg for this race so when the magic number of 80 was hit should it not be closed off? Else run 2 A4 races, 60 in each with points for the first 5? divide it by CI numbers, numbers <500 in race 1, numbers in >500 in race 2... something like that.

also, same as in the A3 race; lads roll up on the outside and sit half way up the bunch blocking other lads from going through. if you are rolling up the outside continue to the front, else just sit in at the back and when you have energy go to the front.

Stevieg2009

thekooman wrote: »

Did the a3 race in Mullingar and with no junior due to the Junior Tour there was about 60 in the race. Good course with a few digs here and there.

not sure on the numbers in A4 but there must have been 120+? it looked like that and as the last poster mentioned it looked like a lot of 1 day licenses as well (purple numbers). There was pre-reg for this race so when the magic number of 80 was hit should it not be closed off? Else run 2 A4 races, 60 in each with points for the first 5? divide it by CI numbers, numbers <500 in race 1, numbers in >500 in race 2... something like that.

Totally agree 60/80 plenty on that circuit the sheer panic from some lads when a car would appear on the road roaring and shouting just causing panic in the bunch brake grabbing lake of bike handling you swear some lads never sat on a bike before rode moynalty last week was a pleasure no messing no shouting lads just rode a far cry from that yesterday

JK.BMC

Stevieg2009 wrote: »

Totally agree 60/80 plenty on that circuit the sheer panic from some lads when a car would appear on the road roaring and shouting just causing panic in the bunch brake grabbing lake of bike handling you swear some lads never sat on a bike before rode moynalty last week was a pleasure no messing no shouting lads just rode a far cry from that yesterday

A3 race had a good sized field - no juniors meant it was actually a decent A3 grade race for once. Yes - 60-80 riders is really all that these roads can handle. And it was a good race I thought. Found it hard enough in spots but not too testing.
One small issue however is the mentality of some lads in A3 - perhaps they have just come from A4, or have little or no racing instinct but it was remarkable how many individuals in the first 60km just drilled it on the front of the bunch as soon as somebody tried a break or attack. Horsing along, chasing after everything/everyone that moved. It was when these guys got tired in the final 20km that the break stayed away. And well done to them.
Maybe "doin' ur bit on da front" counts as "racing" to some people but with 50km gone, I turned to a well-known sprinter in the group, who had the best armchair ride of his career yesterday and said if this keeps up he is an absolute certainty to take the win, despite having absolutely no team mates with him on the day!
I'm not really complaining: rather when you race at this grade, I would hope that more lads would not treat it like it is a 30km Under 14 race. It' up to clubs/groups etc to foster this. Other wise we should all just practice sprinting at the end of a 100km sportive instead....

As for the A4 crash - well that finish was about as safe as you could get with the technical turns and the drag to thin it out. And still lads end up in a hape. A clubmate said he had to deal with a whole load of roaring, bollicking and shouting over nothing, almost coming to blows with another guy who was behind him, wanting him to "get outta the way".... in a race....
Jesus wept

sullzz

Rode the A4 yesterday , from the start it was sketchy , the host club had a serious amount of dodgy riders in it , one lad had last years numbers pinned on , he was all over the place .
I dont know how there was a crash on that finish , it should have been one of the safest race finishes of the season , one of our lads broke a rib and shoulder in the crash .
The lack of a moto marshall was a big deal throughout .
This years racing is completely different to last year .

Borderfox

The big difference between racing now and when I raced in the early 90's seems to be the amount in a race. Some races had small C cat fields that we were put in with A's and B's but I never seen C cat races with more than 60 in them.

dahat

In Tipp yesterday we got some stern words before the A4 race regarding slowing up etc. Race did spilt but there was a bunch Sprint for places 4-8 and it was safe but with only 40 lads in contention that wasn't a surprise.

It seems when numbers exceed to 70-80 mark it hits trouble or am I way off?

Derrydingle

I'm getting put off racing this season last year was good fun and enjoyable but this season is a big hassle, over 100 in the races, fools trying to use bully tactics shouting for no reason etc, yesterday was a on line entry only and yet they were letting people sign on the day which to me just says get in as much money as we can and the hell with people's safety.

thekooman

Derrydingle wrote: »

I'm getting put off racing this season last year was good fun and enjoyable but this season is a big hassle, over 100 in the races, fools trying to use bully tactics shouting for no reason etc, yesterday was a on line entry only and yet they were letting people sign on the day which to me just says get in as much money as we can and the hell with people's safety.

it wasnt Pre-sign on only... pre sign on was only used to gauge interest AFAIK.

CramCycle

For those complaining about the numbers, matlybe send in a motion about limiting numbers dependent on the course or forcing organisers to split over a certain number.

Truth be told it should be part of the safety statement of the course. I don't think it's a money thing, more that if you turn away riders there is a general belief that a lot will never return,

RobFowl

Riding th IVCA races for 6 years now and really safe well organized and competitive. Lots to learn from that organisation.

Stevieg2009

CramCycle wrote: »

For those complaining about the numbers, matlybe send in a motion about limiting numbers dependent on the course or forcing organisers to split over a certain number.

Truth be told it should be part of the safety statement of the course. I don't think it's a money thing, more that if you turn away riders there is a general belief that a lot will never return,

I hear what your saying pain if you have to turn somebody away who has driven 2hrs up the road to race but surely safety should come before hurting somebody's feelings I don't want to be moaning about promoting clubs a big effort goes into putting on a days racing make A4 races pre entry only 1 day licenses need to be banned completely that includes promoting clubs being allowed put there members in if they fancy it.

CramCycle

Stevieg2009 wrote: »

I hear what your saying pain if you have to turn somebody away who has driven 2hrs up the road to race but surely safety should come before hurting somebody's feelings I don't want to be moaning about promoting clubs a big effort goes into putting on a days racing make A4 races pre entry only

Indeed, it is a hard line to skirt and the last time it came up, I believe I spoke against it at the AGM. My work at the time meant that until Saturday morning I would not know if I could race or not. That has changed for me now but I understand that there are still people in that situation. Safety should come first, if not making it pre entry only, then limit numbers and have people know the risk before they leave. Alot of people could pull in on the drive to see how quick numbers are filling up. It does run the risk of closing off alot of non Dublin based races though as it is where the population centre is and those who would travel two hours may not risk it anymore.

Maybe there could be support from CI for those type of races, where by either they agree to cover any shortfall with a contribution, or where non preentry races could charge a small bit more to cover the expected shortfall. I have no idea though, pulling ideas out of my ass to be honest.

1 day licenses need to be banned completely that includes promoting clubs being allowed put there members in if they fancy it.

Are promoting clubs allowed do that? (Genuine question, I would have thought no).
1 day licences are banned at this time of year though as far as I know, unless they were trying to claim their riders were in as some sort of club event.
Very surprised the comms would allow this, unless there is some rule I don't know about.

Stevieg2009

CramCycle wrote: »

Indeed, it is a hard line to skirt and the last time it came up, I believe I spoke against it at the AGM. My work at the time meant that until Saturday morning I would not know if I could race or not. That has changed for me now but I understand that there are still people in that situation. Safety should come first, if not making it pre entry only, then limit numbers and have people know the risk before they leave. Alot of people could pull in on the drive to see how quick numbers are filling up. It does run the risk of closing off alot of non Dublin based races though as it is where the population centre is and those who would travel two hours may not risk it anymore.

Maybe there could be support from CI for those type of races, where by either they agree to cover any shortfall with a contribution, or where non preentry races could charge a small bit more to cover the expected shortfall. I have no idea though, pulling ideas out of my ass to be honest.
They seem to be allowed yesterday anyway I know for a fact most of them lads don't race

Are promoting clubs allowed do that? (Genuine question, I would have thought no).
1 day licences are banned at this time of year though as far as I know, unless they were trying to claim their riders were in as some sort of club event.
Very surprised the comms would allow this, unless there is some rule I don't know about.

They seemed to be yesterday anyway I know for a fact most of them lads don't race

Chips Lovell

CramCycle wrote: »

Are promoting clubs allowed do that? (Genuine question, I would have thought no).

They are:

17. Members of a Cycling Ireland affiliated club holding a limited competition licence may participate in open races promoted by the club of which they are a member, excluding National Championships. It is the responsibility of the promoting club to assess the ability of the rider to compete in such an event and in consultation with the race Commissaire agree an ability category for the rider.

Sarz91

JK.BMC wrote: »

SNIP

I'd agree with most of what you said. I did the A3 race yesterday. Haven't raced in a few months due to work and life. Spent most of the final lap either on or off the front trying to bridge/catch the break.

I only started attacking off the front as no one, or very few, either wanted to work or had the legs to work. As soon as I went off the front though they had no problem in working to chase me down. After getting caught I asked the lads who caught me if they were willing to work to catch the break, they said yeah so I started pulling on the front again but no one came through. I attacked again and had a decent gap but got chased down again.

Heard an awful lot of moaning at the finish from lads that spent the entire last lap down the back about "the last lap was a disgrace" or "it was the most painfully slow A4 race they'd had to endure".

Great day for the lads in the break and fair play to them for putting in the work. Winners work hard, losers make excuses as the saying goes. Pretty fitting with all the bi*ching and moaning at the end there.

bren_mc

I read or was told by someone (sorry - can't remember where) that riders with club competition licences can enter an open race organised by their own club without the need for a one day license.

joey100

I don't race but I'm wondering what's the problem with one day licences? I can see plenty of reasons people might opt for them over a full season licence, just cos they are 1 day licence doesn't mean they are going to be all over the place? From an outsiders view it looks like A3's look down on A4's and then A4's look down on people with 1 day licences.

From following this thread and without any experience of the races (so I'm probably completely wrong) but big numbers seem to be the one of the biggest problems. Would it make sense if all races were pre-reg only? Or would that work for cycling? Might be different from what's been done in the past but if it was to make the racing better would it be accepted?

Gekko1

What time of the day did this race start at?

big mce

I'm more annoyed with the Commissaire who was driving behind the a4 bunch. He watched while the whole bunch swarmed both sides of the road without doing anything. In previous years the Commissaire would blow the horn, come up along side and threathen to either take numbers or stop the race. Riders going around blind corners on the wrong side of the road is just stupid. As for the crash during the sprint, well that can happen any where and the sprint was as safe as it could be made.

Sarz91

big mce wrote: »

I'm more annoyed with the Commissaire who was driving behind the a4 bunch. He watched while the whole bunch swarmed both sides of the road without doing anything. In previous years the Commissaire would blow the horn, come up along side and threathen to either take numbers or stop the race. Riders going around blind corners on the wrong side of the road is just stupid. As for the crash during the sprint, well that can happen any where and the sprint was as safe as it could be made.

The same thing happened in the A3 race. Came up alongside a few riders threatened to take numbers and a few lads got pretty thick with him. No one seemed to realise he was talking to the bunch and maybe not directly to them. Sure one of the lads used the Moto Marshall to move up. It was ballsy I'll give him that.

Thekeencyclist

Was also in the A4 (Mullingar GP), first race in a few months due to work etc so I was down the back for the entire race just to see how the legs + fitness was etc. From what I could see, a crash was expected at some stage. Was nearly a crash after 5/6km into the race, not sure what the cause was but a number of us had to brake rapidly. Also seen the bottle rolling on the ground that someone dropped. Majority of the race had lads taking position from the left hand side of the road all the way over to the right hand side of the road which to me is dangerous with oncoming traffic especially when you go around some of the bends etc. When there was an oncoming car, these lads were causing things to slow down as they were causing a bottleneck trying to get over to the left hand side putting lads into a dangerzone, if the lads out on the right hand side were moving up to the front to keep the race moving at a good pace then fair enuough but they were just hogging the right hand side and not going anywhere near the front! Commaisairre did beep his horn at about half way through the second lap but only for about 5 seconds and I doubt the lads up at the front would have even heard it. This bottlenecking from what i could see did result in a few lads coming down with about 7/8km remaining, they all seem to end up on the left hand grass verge (luckily for them). Not sure how the crash happened in the final sprint but I def wasnt expecting any crash there as it should have been a clean finish for the stronger A4's on the day. Hope anyone injured as a result have a speedy recovery.

Stevieg2009

Gekko1 wrote: »

What time of the day did this race start at?

11am

CramCycle

Sarz91 wrote: »

The same thing happened in the A3 race. Came up alongside a few riders threatened to take numbers and a few lads got pretty thick with him. No one seemed to realise he was talking to the bunch and maybe not directly to them. Sure one of the lads used the Moto Marshall to move up. It was ballsy I'll give him that.

Which is ridiculous. The Comms should have taken number and then CI should pull their licences for the year. We ban people in our club league for far less.

Thekeencyclist wrote: »

Commaisairre did beep his horn at about half way through the second lap but only for about 5 seconds and I doubt the lads up at the front would have even heard it. This bottlenecking from what i could see did result in a few lads coming down with about 7/8km remaining, they all seem to end up on the left hand grass verge (luckily for them). Not sure how the crash happened in the final sprint but I def wasnt expecting any crash there as it should have been a clean finish for the stronger A4's on the day. Hope anyone injured as a result have a speedy recovery.

Again take names, call them out from the back and whittle the people out. If they drop out whne called, leave a note on their profiles for other comms, they give lip or argue, then a ban. Simples.

Gekko1

Stevieg2009 wrote: »

Gekko1 wrote: »

What time of the day did this race start at?

11am

So by the half way mark it would have been mid-day. On a Sunday. On what seemed to have been pretty narrow roads with 100+ riders. race organisers are asking for trouble. Why not start a race 8/9am with quieter roads to potentially negate some risk?

I have had my say on riders having to cop on in relation to 'white lining' earlier in the thread so maybe earlier start times as a suggestion. It might reduce the entries a bit. I personally wouldn't have an issue travelling within a 50-60 mile radius for an early race start. Might even sort out who really wants to race...

Gekko1

Stevieg2009 wrote: »

Gekko1 wrote: »

What time of the day did this race start at?

11am

eeeee

Did the women's race in mullingar and it was absolutely fine, very negative, but safe. We had much, much, smaller bunch though.
I've raced on way smaller roads, and thought the roads were fine, although again we have a way smaller bunch.
Could have done without the comment at the start about getting caught - 'it's not a touring spin now'. A good few of us told him to fcuk off with that. Then couldn't say if we would be stopped or neurtralised. In The end we weren't caught, which was great. 34k loop really works. We were neutralized twice in one national league race which was shyte so I'd say this was orders of magnitude better for us.
It was also way less hilly than I thought it was going to be - I hadn't done it before and the way people were talking about it I was expecting hefty gradients! But it was just a bit rolly which was grand (I'm no climber).
We had a very safe race overall, and I thought the finish was great.

Eta: seen moto marshals there, were they not for the A4's? We didn't have one.
And we got beeped by the commisaire for white lining, there was a bit of it in fairness in our wee bunch I can only imagine how much there was in a bigger bunch!

Stevieg2009

nee wrote: »

Did the women's race in mullingar and it was absolutely fine, very negative, but safe. We had much, much, smaller bunch though.
I've raced on way smaller roads, and thought the roads were fine, although again we have a way smaller bunch.
Could have done without the comment at the start about getting caught - 'it's not a touring spin now'. A good few of us told him to fcuk off with that. Then couldn't say if we would be stopped or neurtralised. In The end we weren't caught, which was great. 34k loop really works. We were neutralized twice in one national league race which was shyte so I'd say this was orders of magnitude better for us.
It was also way less hilly than I thought it was going to be - I hadn't done it before and the way people were talking about it I was expecting hefty gradients! But it was just a bit rolly which was grand (I'm no climber).
We had a very safe race overall, and I thought the finish was great.

Eta: seen moto marshals there, were they not for the A4's? We didn't have one.
And we got beeped by the commisaire for white lining, there was a bit of it in fairness in our wee bunch I can only imagine how much there was in a bigger bunch!

Most circuits are fine once the numbers in a race are appropriate for the circuit didn't see a moto marshal in the A4 race in fact I was wondering during the race was anybody following us at all,watched the finish of the ladies good tidy finish no messing