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Toddler stabbed to death in Dublin

Love2love

http://www.thejournal.ie/toddler-crumlin-violent-3489568-Jul2017/

Poor kid

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[Deleted User]

very sad news indeed. RIP to you child.

sbsquarepants

Kidchameleon wrote: »

I went back and thanked it aswell. Cheers for reminding me. Thanks to the OP for sharing the story, starting the thread and for their expression of sympathy? Whats wrong with that?

Nigerian Baby Stabber

I think he means this wanker

Etc

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Nigerian Baby Stabber

I think he means this wanker

It looks like someone set up that account deliberately. Disgusting, can the mod's remove the thanks ?

[Deleted User]

Ann_Landers wrote: »

I... just despair. It's depressing that a few posts in to a thread on such fresh tragic news, you feel the need for agenda-pushing. Have some decency.

I despair that some people don't have simple comprehension skills. I've explained myself at least three times on this matter. I don't have an agenda. I'm going off previous cases that I've come across. In my experience of reading about cases of infanticide or children dying at the hands of thier parents, public opinion can be drastically different based on whether it was the mother or the father responsible. That's literally what I said.

Compare the reaction of society to the murder-suicide case of Alan Hawe to the case of Irish woman Sinead Higgins, who killed herself and her 7 year old son Oisin in London last year. As a poster said in reaction to this, there's probably reasons why this is the case e.g. postpartum depression and I didn't and don't dispute that but nope, points scoring, gender bashing, using a child's death despite the fact I didn't bash any gender and I said the child's death is an absolutely sad tragedy. But go on by all means, get offended at an observation and assume away and question my decency.

[Deleted User]

volchitsa wrote: »

It's point scoring because you're presenting it as though people "described" men as evil (and let women off for the same actions). That could only be true if as many women as men killed their own children, so that the profiles of the killers was comparable.

That last contention doesn't hold up in any way.

People don't "describe" men as evil for something they would excuse women for, they describe people who kill their children as evil unless they are mentally ill and not responsible for their actions. That includes the vast majority of mothers who kill, and some of the fathers.

When mothers do it, it's practically a predetermined given that it will end up being put down to mental health reasons and case closed. That's worth questioning.

[Deleted User]

Deleted User wrote: »

When mothers do it, it's practically a predetermined given that it will end up being put down to mental health reasons and case closed. That's worth questioning.

No you're gender bashing and agenda pushing for even suggesting questioning it or looking into it. You should be ashamed. I despair. Have some decency.

[Deleted User]

Kidchameleon wrote: »

I went back and thanked it aswell. Cheers for reminding me. Thanks to the OP for sharing the story, starting the thread and for their expression of sympathy? Whats wrong with that?

You missed my point. Look at the name of the individual.

MarkY91

This happened 200 meters from my house. I stood by watching the news reporters go about their work. There was a very sad atmosphere around the area.

They are private apartments with respectable people coming and going anytime I walk past. I'm not sure why a previous poster just assumed it was a junkie mother?

volchitsa

Omackeral wrote: »

No you're gender bashing and agenda pushing for even suggesting questioning it or looking into it. You should be ashamed. I despair. Have some decency.

But you're not "looking into it", you're making unfounded and simplistic assertions based on your pre existing beliefs about gender.

I provided a link about an actual scientific study into the phenomenon - that's looking into it.

BillyBobBS

MarkY91 wrote: »

This happened 200 meters from my house. I stood by watching the news reporters go about their work. There was a very sad atmosphere around the area.

They are private apartments with respectable people coming and going anytime I walk past. I'm not sure why a previous poster just assumed it was a junkie mother?

How do you know if someone is respectable or not? Do they wear a badge?

[Deleted User]

BillyBobBS wrote: »

How do you know if someone is respectable or not? Do they wear a badge?

FFS. This thread has turned into an embarrassment of nit-picking, grandstanding and one-upmanship.

[Deleted User]

volchitsa wrote: »

But you're not "looking into it", you're making unfounded and simplistic assertions based on your pre existing beliefs about gender.

I provided a link about an actual scientific study into the phenomenon - that's looking into it.

I give up. For the last time, I said if it's a woman it'll probably go the mental illness route. That's what i literally said. I didn't state any pre existing beliefs about gender, I based that on previous cases. Cases that I have looked into and read up on, ergo not unfounded. I didn't say one way or the other whether I agreed with society's take on it or not. I didn't run any gender down. I took on board what a poster said about post partum depression. I saw and see the legitimacy in that, as well as other factors. So yes, I have looked into it before.

murpho999

Deleted User wrote: »

FFS. This thread has turned into an embarrassment of nit-picking, grandstanding and one-upmanship.

There's no hyphen in 'nitpicking'.

tritium

volchitsa wrote: »

But you're not "looking into it", you're making unfounded and simplistic assertions based on your pre existing beliefs about gender.

I provided a link about an actual scientific study into the phenomenon - that's looking into it.

Actually your research is somewhat flawed-unsurprising if your source is the daily mail. If youd looked a bit deeper you'd find its a much more complex question than the one you've tried to answer

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2174580/
https://news.brown.edu/articles/2014/02/filicide
http://www.manchester.ac.uk/discover/news/findings-from-most-in-depth-study-into-uk-parents-who-kill-their-children/
http://www.nhregister.com/general-news/20150613/parents-killing-their-children-is-surprisingly-common-but-difficult-to-understand

Notably the incidence is very much dependent on factors such as age of child. It also ignores the fact that there are psychiatric factors for a significant number of both the men and women who commit such an awful crime, albeit society is somewhat less compassionate to the idea that family breakup can be a devastating trigger for some. That said I'm not surprised that a daily mail article pushing the concept of 'family annihilators' isnt so keen on steering a compassionate course.

As an aside i recall we had a poster on AH banging on with that annihilator nonsense a few months back too, it got short shift from most posters on here.

SEPT 23 1989

Parents who murder their children should get the heaviest sentences

Sunflower 27

Ann_Landers wrote: »

Omackeral wrote: »

I can see it going one of two ways.

If the perp was a male he'll be pilloried and called evil and subhuman. If it was a female, it'll be mental illness that's at fault.

RIP to the little boy. Horrifying news, so fcuking sad.

I... just despair. It's depressing that a few posts in to a thread on such fresh tragic news, you feel the need for agenda-pushing. Have some decency.

Sorry, we can only offer condolences now can we? Oh please, this is a discussion forum.

Ann_Landers

Omackeral wrote: »

I despair that some people don't have simple comprehension skills. I've explained myself at least three times on this matter.

I saw your subsequent posts, they didn't help your case. You used a very fresh, tragic news story to bring in a gender slant. This is what you did. Stop acting like a victim and own it, at the very least.

Sunflower 27 wrote: »

Sorry, we can only offer condolences now can we? Oh please, this is a discussion forum.

You go, girlfrien'! *snaps fingers* So much sass!

Kidchameleon

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You missed my point. Look at the name of the individual.

My bad. Apologies.

Kidchameleon

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Parents who murder their children should get the heaviest sentences

That woman in England got away scott free after strangling her newbord with her knickers. I doubt the woman in this case will get the proper justice handed to her either

volchitsa

tritium wrote: »

Actually your research is somewhat flawed-unsurprising if your source is the daily mail. If youd looked a bit deeper you'd find its a much more complex question than the one you've tried to answer

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2174580/
https://news.brown.edu/articles/2014/02/filicide
http://www.manchester.ac.uk/discover/news/findings-from-most-in-depth-study-into-uk-parents-who-kill-their-children/
http://www.nhregister.com/general-news/20150613/parents-killing-their-children-is-surprisingly-common-but-difficult-to-understand

Notably the incidence is very much dependent on factors such as age of child. It also ignores the fact that there are psychiatric factors for a significant number of both the men and women who commit such an awful crime, albeit society is somewhat less compassionate to the idea that family breakup can be a devastating trigger for some. That said I'm not surprised that a daily mail article pushing the concept of 'family annihilators' isnt so keen on steering a compassionate course.

As an aside i recall we had a poster on AH banging on with that annihilator nonsense a few months back too, it got short shift from most posters on here.

Way to go, nothing to say about someone making totally unfounded claims, but complaints about the "wrong" articles being linked to pointing out flaws in that claim. Of course.

Look, I didn't say it wasn't complicated, I said it wasn't a simplistic "men are described as evil, women get the benefit of the assumption that it's not their fault because mental illness". Do your links prove that poster's assertion? If not, you're off topic here.

BattleCorp

I know I'll be castigated for this but I don't believe that people with a mental illness who commit a crime should be treated much differently from anybody else.

If someone with a mental illness kills someone, then I believe they should be tried in court, and if convicted receive the same sentence that everybody else would get for committing that crime. The only difference I would have is that instead of serving their sentence in a prison, that they serve their sentence in a secure hospital where they receive treatment for their illness. And, if at the end of their sentence, if the doctors don't pass them fit to be released, they get kept there until they are either better or else they are never released.

People shouldn't get light sentences based on them having a mental illness.

evolving_doors

Kidchameleon wrote: »

That woman in England got away scott free after strangling her newbord with her knickers. I doubt the woman in this case will get the proper justice handed to her either

Didn't read all the thread! How do you know that a woman did it?

seamus

Gebgbegb wrote: »

Didn't read all the thread! How do you know that a woman did it?

Supposition. They have a dead child and a critically injured woman, no arrests, and they're not looking for anyone.

So you join the dots and the Gardai strongly believe the mother did it.

Anyway, this is a different matter. A woman who kills a newborn can claim infanticide, which is a lesser charge than murder. That's for a different thread.

You can't claim infanticide for a 3 year old.

Madam Oblong

Gebgbegb wrote: »

Didn't read all the thread! How do you know that a woman did it?

They are not looking for anyone else in connection with the incident

seamus

BattleCorp wrote: »

I know I'll be castigated for this but I don't believe that people with a mental illness who commit a crime should be treated much differently from anybody else.

....

People shouldn't get light sentences based on them having a mental illness.

It's a conversation for a different thread, but at the base of it you need to examine what it is you're trying to achieve with sentencing at all.

If it's revenge, then sure, punish them just the same.

But otherwise if your aim is to deter others and/or rehabilitate offenders, then treating mentally ill offenders the same as everyone else, won't achieve those aims.

Hector Savage

Heartbreaking.

RIP little man.

Bushmanpm

Deleted User wrote:

When mothers do it, it's practically a predetermined given that it will end up being put down to mental health reasons and case closed. That's worth questioning.

Omackeral wrote:

No you're gender bashing and agenda pushing for even suggesting questioning it or looking into it. You should be ashamed. I despair. Have some decency.

If there IS a link between mental health and infanticide by mothers, wouldn't THAT be worth looking into? Y'know, to try and prevent/limit reoccurrences?
I don't see how it's "...gender bashing..." if it actually HELPS mothers and children in the future and as for "...agenda pushing..."??? Personally I think that YOU should be ashamed and have some decency for any possible future victims who could be helped to avoid such tragedies, for both the child AND the mother.

tritium

volchitsa wrote: »

Way to go, nothing to say about someone making totally unfounded claims, but complaints about the "wrong" articles being linked to pointing out flaws in that claim. Of course.

Look, I didn't say it wasn't complicated, I said it wasn't a simplistic "men are described as evil, women get the benefit of the assumption that it's not their fault because mental illness". Do your links prove that poster's assertion? If not, you're off topic here.

Youre getting a wee bit too defensive there i think. I tried to add a bit of balance to your link to a daily mail article that frankly plays the same rather simplistic men vs women agenda that you slammed the other poster for, albeit from another perspective. If you looked at any of the links you'd see they hardly endorse either the original point made or indeed your rebuttal posts.

Ann_Landers

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2017/0711/889269-kimmage-dublin/

Gardaí are treating it as a 'personal tragedy' and are waiting to question the mother. Weird wording.

SEPT 23 1989

Ann_Landers wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2017/0711/889269-kimmage-dublin/

Gardaí are treating it as a 'personal tragedy' and are waiting to question the mother. Weird wording.

its murder