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Child Item

Toddler stabbed to death in Dublin

Love2love

http://www.thejournal.ie/toddler-crumlin-violent-3489568-Jul2017/

Poor kid

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Kidchameleon

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Parents who murder their children should get the heaviest sentences

That woman in England got away scott free after strangling her newbord with her knickers. I doubt the woman in this case will get the proper justice handed to her either

Kidchameleon

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You missed my point. Look at the name of the individual.

My bad. Apologies.

Ann_Landers

Omackeral wrote: »

I despair that some people don't have simple comprehension skills. I've explained myself at least three times on this matter.

I saw your subsequent posts, they didn't help your case. You used a very fresh, tragic news story to bring in a gender slant. This is what you did. Stop acting like a victim and own it, at the very least.

Sunflower 27 wrote: »

Sorry, we can only offer condolences now can we? Oh please, this is a discussion forum.

You go, girlfrien'! *snaps fingers* So much sass!

Sunflower 27

Ann_Landers wrote: »

Omackeral wrote: »

I can see it going one of two ways.

If the perp was a male he'll be pilloried and called evil and subhuman. If it was a female, it'll be mental illness that's at fault.

RIP to the little boy. Horrifying news, so fcuking sad.

I... just despair. It's depressing that a few posts in to a thread on such fresh tragic news, you feel the need for agenda-pushing. Have some decency.

Sorry, we can only offer condolences now can we? Oh please, this is a discussion forum.

SEPT 23 1989

Parents who murder their children should get the heaviest sentences

tritium

volchitsa wrote: »

But you're not "looking into it", you're making unfounded and simplistic assertions based on your pre existing beliefs about gender.

I provided a link about an actual scientific study into the phenomenon - that's looking into it.

Actually your research is somewhat flawed-unsurprising if your source is the daily mail. If youd looked a bit deeper you'd find its a much more complex question than the one you've tried to answer

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2174580/
https://news.brown.edu/articles/2014/02/filicide
http://www.manchester.ac.uk/discover/news/findings-from-most-in-depth-study-into-uk-parents-who-kill-their-children/
http://www.nhregister.com/general-news/20150613/parents-killing-their-children-is-surprisingly-common-but-difficult-to-understand

Notably the incidence is very much dependent on factors such as age of child. It also ignores the fact that there are psychiatric factors for a significant number of both the men and women who commit such an awful crime, albeit society is somewhat less compassionate to the idea that family breakup can be a devastating trigger for some. That said I'm not surprised that a daily mail article pushing the concept of 'family annihilators' isnt so keen on steering a compassionate course.

As an aside i recall we had a poster on AH banging on with that annihilator nonsense a few months back too, it got short shift from most posters on here.

murpho999

Deleted User wrote: »

FFS. This thread has turned into an embarrassment of nit-picking, grandstanding and one-upmanship.

There's no hyphen in 'nitpicking'.

[Deleted User]

volchitsa wrote: »

But you're not "looking into it", you're making unfounded and simplistic assertions based on your pre existing beliefs about gender.

I provided a link about an actual scientific study into the phenomenon - that's looking into it.

I give up. For the last time, I said if it's a woman it'll probably go the mental illness route. That's what i literally said. I didn't state any pre existing beliefs about gender, I based that on previous cases. Cases that I have looked into and read up on, ergo not unfounded. I didn't say one way or the other whether I agreed with society's take on it or not. I didn't run any gender down. I took on board what a poster said about post partum depression. I saw and see the legitimacy in that, as well as other factors. So yes, I have looked into it before.

[Deleted User]

BillyBobBS wrote: »

How do you know if someone is respectable or not? Do they wear a badge?

FFS. This thread has turned into an embarrassment of nit-picking, grandstanding and one-upmanship.

BillyBobBS

MarkY91 wrote: »

This happened 200 meters from my house. I stood by watching the news reporters go about their work. There was a very sad atmosphere around the area.

They are private apartments with respectable people coming and going anytime I walk past. I'm not sure why a previous poster just assumed it was a junkie mother?

How do you know if someone is respectable or not? Do they wear a badge?

volchitsa

Omackeral wrote: »

No you're gender bashing and agenda pushing for even suggesting questioning it or looking into it. You should be ashamed. I despair. Have some decency.

But you're not "looking into it", you're making unfounded and simplistic assertions based on your pre existing beliefs about gender.

I provided a link about an actual scientific study into the phenomenon - that's looking into it.

MarkY91

This happened 200 meters from my house. I stood by watching the news reporters go about their work. There was a very sad atmosphere around the area.

They are private apartments with respectable people coming and going anytime I walk past. I'm not sure why a previous poster just assumed it was a junkie mother?

[Deleted User]

Kidchameleon wrote: »

I went back and thanked it aswell. Cheers for reminding me. Thanks to the OP for sharing the story, starting the thread and for their expression of sympathy? Whats wrong with that?

You missed my point. Look at the name of the individual.

[Deleted User]

Deleted User wrote: »

When mothers do it, it's practically a predetermined given that it will end up being put down to mental health reasons and case closed. That's worth questioning.

No you're gender bashing and agenda pushing for even suggesting questioning it or looking into it. You should be ashamed. I despair. Have some decency.

[Deleted User]

volchitsa wrote: »

It's point scoring because you're presenting it as though people "described" men as evil (and let women off for the same actions). That could only be true if as many women as men killed their own children, so that the profiles of the killers was comparable.

That last contention doesn't hold up in any way.

People don't "describe" men as evil for something they would excuse women for, they describe people who kill their children as evil unless they are mentally ill and not responsible for their actions. That includes the vast majority of mothers who kill, and some of the fathers.

When mothers do it, it's practically a predetermined given that it will end up being put down to mental health reasons and case closed. That's worth questioning.

[Deleted User]

Ann_Landers wrote: »

I... just despair. It's depressing that a few posts in to a thread on such fresh tragic news, you feel the need for agenda-pushing. Have some decency.

I despair that some people don't have simple comprehension skills. I've explained myself at least three times on this matter. I don't have an agenda. I'm going off previous cases that I've come across. In my experience of reading about cases of infanticide or children dying at the hands of thier parents, public opinion can be drastically different based on whether it was the mother or the father responsible. That's literally what I said.

Compare the reaction of society to the murder-suicide case of Alan Hawe to the case of Irish woman Sinead Higgins, who killed herself and her 7 year old son Oisin in London last year. As a poster said in reaction to this, there's probably reasons why this is the case e.g. postpartum depression and I didn't and don't dispute that but nope, points scoring, gender bashing, using a child's death despite the fact I didn't bash any gender and I said the child's death is an absolutely sad tragedy. But go on by all means, get offended at an observation and assume away and question my decency.

Etc

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Nigerian Baby Stabber

I think he means this wanker

It looks like someone set up that account deliberately. Disgusting, can the mod's remove the thanks ?

sbsquarepants

Kidchameleon wrote: »

I went back and thanked it aswell. Cheers for reminding me. Thanks to the OP for sharing the story, starting the thread and for their expression of sympathy? Whats wrong with that?

Nigerian Baby Stabber

I think he means this wanker

[Deleted User]

very sad news indeed. RIP to you child.

MilesMorales1

Jesus christ, poor sod. No kid deserves that.

Kidchameleon

[Deleted User] wrote: »

RIP

The individual thanking the OP needs to have a look at themselves, by the way

I went back and thanked it aswell. Cheers for reminding me. Thanks to the OP for sharing the story, starting the thread and for their expression of sympathy? Whats wrong with that?

[Deleted User]

RIP

The individual thanking the OP needs to have a look at themselves, by the way

volchitsa

Omackeral wrote: »

I assure you, it's not.

And show me where I disagreed with that? I didn't dispute that. I said if it's a man he'll likely be described as evil and if it's a woman she'll likely be described as mentally ill. You're saying there's truth to that based off statistics. That's fine and I take you at your word there. All I did was say that's how saw it going yet people are getting themselves in a frenzy saying I'm points scoring and using a child's death to do so. Utter rubbish and a lack of simple comprehension regarding a point being made. Also, I said it was a horrific occurrence and so very sad but that didn't register because it doesn't fit in with winning internet points.

It's point scoring because you're presenting it as though people "described" men as evil (and let women off for the same actions). That could only be true if as many women as men killed their own children, so that the profiles of the killers was comparable.

People don't "describe" men as evil for something they would excuse women for, they describe people who kill their children as evil unless they are mentally ill and not responsible for their actions. That includes the vast majority of mothers who kill, and some of the fathers.

When you remove those who show signs of severe mental illness from the total, the vast majority who are left are men. So to use your own words, the majority of men who kill are evil, the majority of women who kill are mentally ill. That's not just people's assumptions though, that's a fact.

Why more fathers are killing children: Top criminologist reveals research into a sickening trend

Ann_Landers

Omackeral wrote: »

I can see it going one of two ways.

If the perp was a male he'll be pilloried and called evil and subhuman. If it was a female, it'll be mental illness that's at fault.

RIP to the little boy. Horrifying news, so fcuking sad.

I... just despair. It's depressing that a few posts in to a thread on such fresh tragic news, you feel the need for agenda-pushing. Have some decency.

RDM_83 again

Robsweezie wrote: »

it is a discussion forum, and i didnt go into this expecting merely an endless stream of condolences. other angles of course will be looked at whether we like it or not, the nature of the crime etc. thats what happens when you start a thread, unless its specified as a tribute. posters will draw discussion from some aspect.

horrific, unthinkable, what can be said.... you'd despair. it helps me a little to think the majority of people are not at all inclined to do anything like this, and we cherish children.

I agree with you that its pointless having threads on a discussion site where you can only post condolences (and I argued the same years back) but I don't think there is much good to be done by having threads very recent very personal tragedies involving non public figures.

Realistically we know nothing about it at this stage, most likely its something like severe post-natal depression but thats literally all that can be said at this point and even thats just a guess.

[Deleted User]

volchitsa wrote: »

It's exactly what you're doing.

I assure you, it's not.

volchitsa wrote: »

That's why more mothers who kill their children are portrayed as mentally ill - because a higher proportion of them, in fact nearly all, of them are.

And show me where I disagreed with that? I didn't dispute that. I said if it's a man he'll likely be described as evil and if it's a woman she'll likely be described as mentally ill. You're saying there's truth to that based off statistics. That's fine and I take you at your word there. All I did was say that's how saw it going yet people are getting themselves in a frenzy saying I'm points scoring and using a child's death to do so. Utter rubbish and a lack of simple comprehension regarding a point being made. Also, I said it was a horrific occurrence and so very sad but that didn't register because it doesn't fit in with winning internet points.

volchitsa

Omackeral wrote: »

Get a grip. How exactly am I scoring points? Explain that to me. Disgusting accusation.

It's exactly what you're doing.
You're acting as though all killers of their family are acting from the same motives, when there are actually two very different groups, the ones that are genuinely insane, and those who want to punish the other partner.

Overall, more fathers kill than mothers, but the numbers killed by parents suffering mental illness is probably about the same. Those parents - male or female - hopefully get treatment rather than prison. And when a man kills his family due to severe mental illness that's take into account, as it should be. One near us in Carndonagh not long ago where the man killed his elderly parents with an axe. Wasn't found guilty of murder.

The difference is that more men kill their children without suffering from mental illness. Some women do too, but far fewer. Male or female, those people should get the book thrown at them, and they do.

But your assumption that the profiles of male and female killers are the same is wrong. That's why more mothers who kill their children are portrayed as mentally ill - because a higher proportion of them, in fact nearly all, of them are.

Robsweezie

it is a discussion forum, and i didnt go into this expecting merely an endless stream of condolences. other angles of course will be looked at whether we like it or not, the nature of the crime etc. thats what happens when you start a thread, unless its specified as a tribute. posters will draw discussion from some aspect.

horrific, unthinkable, what can be said.... you'd despair. it helps me a little to think the majority of people are not at all inclined to do anything like this, and we cherish children.

[Deleted User]

January wrote: »

Loads of people here at the time and recently again when news of his grave being exhumed came about defended him and claimed only someone who was mentally ill could do such a thing. Fact is the majority of women who do kill their children are mentally ill. Postpartum psychosis is a very real illness that can go untreated for years.

Anyone I spoke to and the majority of things I read pertaining to him described him as a beast. As for postpartum psychosis, I didn't once challenge that or say it's not a cause. I gave an opinion that I thought the reporting could go one of two ways. An observation, which is what forums are all about. Wasn't points scoring or using the death of a child to further an agenda (I'm fcuking disgusted at that accusation by the way).

[Deleted User]

Surely, for all we know,the kid might have been messing with the knife, cut his mother and inflicted fatal injuries on himself.

I don't mean that as a proposition, merely to say let's not rush to judge at all yet. At the moment, it's a horrific tragedy, let's hold off on the comments until more comes to light.