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Bolt problem again!!

dodderangler

So after no use on my rifle in over two month it's now extremely hard to lift up and down in the gun. I've stripped the bolt and lubed it up and still no success. I'm thinking is my camo wrap at fault on it?
Seen vids on YouTube of the sleeve inside the bolt being a common problem with savage.

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dodderangler

The sleeve that gives problems is the top one. Is has small score marks on it of wear.

Jack the Stripper

What are you using as lube?

dodderangler

Jack the Stripper wrote: »

What are you using as lube?

Silicone spray.

gunny123

Try a bit of copper or lithium grease, just a smear mind or it will attract dust and grit.

Cass

Four questions:

Is it when the rifle is empty or loaded or both?
Have you checked the action/chamber?
Any wear marks on the bolt face?
Has it always been tight or is it recent?

Possible issues:

If it is when the rifle is loaded then look at ammo election. If it is when the rifle is empty then it's a rifle issue.
Take out the bolt, if not already done, and get a torch. Look into the action/receiver where the barrel "meets" the action. Crude, crap and fouling can gather in this area. Make sure it is spotless. This means using angled brushes, cotton buds, oil, etc. It's the face of the barrel where it meets the bolt.
Take out the bolt. Place two or three lines on each lug. Put the bolt back in and cycle it. Take out the bolt and see if the lines/marks are smeared. If they are then you are getting excessive bolt face contact with the barrel.
If this is a new issue then it is something that was done (dirt, damage, etc). If it's an existing issue then it could be a manufacturing issue.

dodderangler

Cass wrote: »

Four questions:
Is it when the rifle is empty or loaded or both?

Have you checked the action/chamber?

Any wear marks on the bolt face?

Has it always been tight or is it recent?

Possible issues:
If it is when the rifle is loaded then look at ammo election. If it is when the rifle is empty then it's a rifle issue.

Take out the bolt, if not already done, and get a torch. Look into the action/receiver where the barrel "meets" the action. Crude, crap and fouling can gather in this area. Make sure it is spotless. This means using angled brushes, cotton buds, oil, etc. It's the face of the barrel where it meets the bolt.

Take out the bolt. Place two or three lines on each lug. Put the bolt back in and cycle it. Take out the bolt and see if the lines/marks are smeared. If they are then you are getting excessive bolt face contact with the barrel.

If this is a new issue then it is something that was done (dirt, damage, etc). If it's an existing issue then it could be a manufacturing issue.

*It's tight when it's empty and loaded. Same result.
* checked the chamber and no marks or anything. Was a bit of dust/dirt but cleaned it out and oiled
*no wear marks on the bolt or face of it. No score marks
* bolt was always smooth until I sent it for repairs a year ago and it was slightly tight but I could put 5 rounds through it fairly quick. Now I've literally to put my hand on the gun and other hand to lift up the bolt just to reload and it's same result even when it's not loaded.
Everything Else looks to be ok. I'm thinking of my camo wrap maybe chips of it have gotten stuck further into barrel. Where I can't see unless il have to totally disassemble my rifle down to separating the whole lot. But that's last thing I want to do as I'd be afraid I'd lose or misplace a small part that's important. I wouldn't be the most experienced on stripping a gun except a shotgun. And I'm pretty sure there's feck all real gunsmiths in Dublin.

Cass

dodderangler wrote: »

*It's tight when it's empty and loaded. Same result.

No difference at all between the two?

* checked the chamber and no marks or anything. Was a bit of dust/dirt but cleaned it out and oiled

Scrub it. Even when it looks clean it can still hide fouling. I've seen cigarette ash make a bolt stiff to cycle and then stop it from doing so.

*no wear marks on the bolt or face of it. No score marks

Would imply there is no contact from the bolt.

* bolt was always smooth until I sent it for repairs a year ago and it was slightly tight but I could put 5 rounds through it fairly quick. Now I've literally to put my hand on the gun and other hand to lift up the bolt just to reload and it's same result even when it's not loaded.

What repairs?

I'm thinking of my camo wrap maybe chips of it have gotten stuck further into barrel.

Unless such chips have lodged between the bolt face and barrel they won't affect the cycling. Unless there is some wrap/chips within the bolt however you seem to have disassembled it and would have found any.

Where I can't see unless il have to totally disassemble my rifle down to separating the whole lot. But that's last thing I want to do as I'd be afraid I'd lose or misplace a small part that's important. I wouldn't be the most experienced on stripping a gun except a shotgun. And I'm pretty sure there's feck all real gunsmiths in Dublin.

Checking the headspace would be all that is needed and a Go/No Go gauge can do that without the need for disassembly. If, during the repairs, someone took the barrel off and put it back on too "tight" or on the wrong timing it could have caused an issue.

Jack the Stripper

I wouldn't have thought silicone spray to be the choice of lube in this application.

dodderangler

Cass wrote: »

No difference at all between the two?

Scrub it. Even when it looks clean it can still hide fouling. I've seen cigarette ash make a bolt stiff to cycle and then stop it from doing so.

Would imply there is no contact from the bolt.

What repairs?

Unless such chips have lodged between the bolt face and barrel they won't affect the cycling. Unless there is some wrap/chips within the bolt however you seem to have disassembled it and would have found any.

Checking the headspace would be all that is needed and a Go/No Go gauge can do that without the need for disassembly. If, during the repairs, someone took the barrel off and put it back on too "tight" or on the wrong timing it could have caused an issue.

There's no difference in it being loaded to lock the bolt in place or after the shot or if it's empty . It's still extremely stiff and requires Me to place one hand on gun or top of scope and other to pull bolt up.
The repairs was for:
1. The bolt wouldn't eject empty casings. It wouldn't grip the rim without a good smack. Was still under warranty at the time. Took 3 months to get back. Bolt was at fault.
It worked fine after repairs but was slightly stiffer than normal but was fine. It didn't bother me and would recycle shot after shot quick enough.
Havint shot it in 2 months and last Tuesday went out and it was so stiff I couldn't believe it. I always carry cleaning kit and wd40 or silicone spray in my rifle bag. Didn't change it

Cass

Right. While it's hard to diagnose any issue over the net i'll give it two last tries.

The only othe factor i can think of that would cause this is the torque setting on the action screws. I had the same issue with a Savage Palma rifle many years back. The rifle was a tack driver, but very fussy about the type of ammo you fed it and the torque settings of the action screws. Torque the front screw too much and the bolt became very stiff to cycle to the point i had to physically tap the bolt handle to get it to lift on an empty chamber.

Solution was to open/take out the front action screw. Once out, but with the other one/two actions screws (depending on how many the Axis has in total) i cycled the bolt without it. If your bolt cycles much easier without the front action screw in then it's a simple case of replacing the front action screw with the bolt in (always on an empty chamber) and torque setting the front action screw until you get smooth and easy bolt cycling, but a good hold with the front action screw.

My second opinion is based on this.

dodderangler wrote: »

I always carry cleaning kit and wd40 or silicone spray in my rifle bag. Didn't change it

I didn't touch on these because i thought it might be one of the other factors above, but as we're down to these being one of only a couple of possible reasons its time to address them.

STOP using silicone spray and WD40. NOW

Seems harsh but let me explain why i say it that way. Silicone spray is a dry lube. It is not suitable for use on a firearm imo. It'll gum up and not provide the type of lube you need to protect the component parts. You'll end up with a fouled action, parts unprotected and microscopic shavings from where the metal is rubbing of other metal. All of this can result in stiff cycling of the bolt.

Leave silicone sprays to car repairs and invest in a good quality gun lube. Stick to known and designated lubes such as Rand CLP, Frog lube, even Hoppes no.9.

As for WD40. You've probably been told or heard people say never use it on a gun. Some even say it contains water. Well i highly doubt a water displacement contains water, but what it does have is a very low oil content with other ingredients that are used to free rusty parts and displace water. You want an actual oil. Youngs gun oil is a personal favorite, but not recommended for bolts as it's so viscous that it may gather on the bolt face and cause problems with headspace as it cannot be compressed. Plus you wipe away excess immediately.

I'd recommend something like Brunox gun oil. It has a high oil content and is specifically designed for firearms. While not a lube it'll give much better protection and will have a higher temp tolerance than WD40 which can burn into or bake onto your firearm given the temps the gun can run at during multiple shots.

All the above leads me to my previous point about cleaning. Visual inspection or thinking your gun is clean does not mean it's clean. I recently spent 2 hours, which i would not class as a long cleaning, cleaning my 308. Even after using some fairly heavy duty cleaners i checked the bore with a bore scope. While i got 90% of the fouling there was a trace of copper fouling still in the barrel for about two inches. So back i went again.

Same with my semi auto. After a thorough cleaning and a visual inspection (by eye) it looked spotless. Bore scope showed the remaining fouling and once i soaked the chamber and concentrated on it the amount of dirt that came out of my "clean" chamber startled me.

So while you might think your rifle clean the silicone spray and WD40 may have burnt itself onto/into the chamber/action and will require a level of cleaning far beyond that which you normally do.

Check the torque settings. If the bolt still doesn't cycle with the front screw out/loosened then strip her down and i mean scrub the living crap out it. Not just the barrel, but the chamber, inside the action/receiver, the bolt face, everywhere. Then use a proper lube, reassemble and try it. Concentrate on the feel of the bolt. Not just for cycling, but for any small improvement. If you find it's a little freer you could be on the right road and need to simply repeat the process.

If all the above fails then i'm afraid it's back to the RFD/manufacturer for a professional check and service.

.243

Sounds like there is adhesive from the camp wrap or a chip in the chamber/bolt face,you mightn't see it as it could be bedded in from trying to cycle the bolt,
A heavy grade degreaser sprayed in to soak and a chamber mop or a cotton mop from a 20 bore spun should remove the crud

minktrapper

Dodder your inbox is full.

cookimonster

Just looking at your photos in the post, is the bolt normally that colour? What I mean is, it appears to be greyish / blackish in colour. I'm just referencing it to firearms I'm used to and most of the bolt finishes are bright or mat steal in finish. I know there are many different custom finishes but I would be interested to know what it's original finish was when you bought it.

minktrapper

Can you work the bolt when it is not in the rifle. As in cock it like you would after firing as shot. If you can't I might have a solution to your problem.

Cass

Now i'm curious. What do you think it is Minktrapper?

minktrapper

Cass wrote: »

Now i'm curious. What do you think it is Minktrapper?

I've seen what is possibly a similar problem. That whole bolt was polished and cleaned and everything else was done to it. Bar the end of the bolt handle sleeve. Or at least that is what I think it is called. A small bit of grime/hardened spent propellant maybe was causing problems.

When you lift the bolt handle on a bolt action rifle it creates rearward pressure on certain parts of the bolt. Its wherever the parts are creating rearward pressure. The rifle I saw was so bad that it was almost impossible to cock it.

Dodder.Assemble the bolt again and photograph it. And I might be able to help you.

Hack12

Take out the bolt and get some metal polish and polish the bolt and barrell. It should remove any material there. You don't have to go mad polishing etc just make sure its smooth afterwards. Lube when put the bolt back in and see how works

minktrapper

Hack12 wrote: »

Take out the bolt and get some metal polish and polish the bolt and barrell. It should remove any material there. You don't have to go mad polishing etc just make sure its smooth afterwards. Lube when put the bolt back in and see how works

Personally I think polishing your bolt will be a waste of time. It appears you look after your rifle extremely well. So what you need is hardened steel rubbing against hardened steel. No lubricant of any sort.

dodderangler

Thanks to all for the advice. I've done a lot of what was advised and still no avail. Il be bringing it to the shop I got it from to be repaired. Still under warranty. I've researched the problem and a lot has come about if the internal sleeve in the bolt. As was also said in posts by boards users.
Again thanks to all and il keep it updated.

Hack12

Take the bolt out and polish is lightly witg metal polish. Do the same with the receiver.

minktrapper

Hack12 wrote: »

Take the bolt out and polish is lightly witg metal polish. Do the same with the receiver.

As I have already suggested. Remove the bolt from the gun and try working it/cocking it.If you can't cock it when it is out of the gun then the problem lies within the bolt.If the problem lies within the bolt then we can take you to the next step. I have a feeling that the shop you bought it from will not be able to help you either.

minktrapper

Any luck with the bolt Dodder.

BrianR2

by any chance is it a savage axis ?

J.R.

BrianR2 wrote: »

by any chance is it a savage axis ?

“Gun is a .223 savage axis.”

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=94610904

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057508420

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057438850

tac foley

Two similar rifles here in my local dealer, awaiting collection back to the importers. One had a frozen in place bolt AFTER cleaning it. Gentle applications of 'kinetic technology' with a plastic-faced mallet failed to move the bolt even a fraction of an inch.

The other one won't CLOSE.

Both are .223.

Me, I'm thinking that the owners have been futzing around with the barrel, and screwing up the headspace setting, maybe setting the barrel back incorrectly after removing it for reasons unknown. Both instances will futz up the bolt closure or open-ment [whatever the word is - not speaking English here for the last two weeks with relatives over from Canada, sorry.]

We're waiting to hear the eventual news with great keenth.

tac

dodderangler

minktrapper wrote: »

Any luck with the bolt Dodder.

I'm currently in the states. Been here for 3 weeks so won't be back till Tuesday. Left the gun with the dealer to sort out. Hoping for good news when I return.

minktrapper

Any luck with the bolt and what was wrong with it.

fish slapped

If the action bolts holding the action and stock together have been changed or the stock has been changed, these action bolts may be rubbing upon the bolt head and causing the friction to make bolt lift heavy. Try a slightly shorter front action bolt or try working the bolt with the action out of the stock.