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Child Item

Did anybody here attend the Rally For Life/repeal the 8th marches in Dublin?

freshpopcorn

I heard a good bit about these online at the weekend. Did anybody on Boards attend either of these?
I think it was official the Rally for Life and the counter march was organised by the repeal side. I know in my local town their was a bus organised by the Rally for Life group. According to the net their was meant to have be a good turn out for the Rally for Life protest. This was discredited by repeal the 8th side but either side always tend to think they've a massive group and the other side is smaller.
From social media it appears to the same people commenting from both sides all the time in my experience with the typical comments getting all the likes. Outside of the internet/news articles I have never really heard many people on about it to be honest.
It will be a very interesting to see how a vote on this will go in my opinion it will all depend on what people are voting for. One thing I have noticed is repeal votes seem to be alienating the on the fence voters more so than the pro-life campaign.

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Ann_Landers

The_Valeyard wrote: »

I will follow this up in the proper forums. Thanks. I'm not aware of what you are in about.

They are not my account and you bringing this up is quite damaging.

Huh? I thought his post was two separate comments to two separate posters, you and gctest50. The second part was a warning to gctest50.

suicide_circus

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So they couldn't raise the funds to fly to England but could raise the funds to raise a child?

Not making a pronouncements on abortion here. Export is not a solution.

super_furry

freshpopcorn wrote: »

Well obvious I can but if they don't want men involved in the campaign because it's a woman choice they shouldn't have men involved in the campaign themselves. They should lead by example.

It's not a case of not wanting men involved in the campaign, it's a case of pointing out the obvious ridiculousness of being told by a certain cohort of men what they should and shouldn't do with their womb. Of being called murderers for dealing with an issue that they'll never, ever have to face. Pointing out to someone that they shouldn't have to right to enforce a pregnancy on someone because of their religious beliefs.

gctest50

Ann_Landers wrote: »

Huh? I thought his post was two separate comments to two separate posters, you and gctest50. The second part was a warning to gctest50.

That poster seems to be confused by it is all

The_Valeyard wrote: »

I need to report a moderator for accusing me of having multiple accounts which I do not. He openly accused me so in a forum. I am humiliated and angry by these accusations. I think some other user is trying to get it me because of my views on certain subjects.

But im not mod banned or carded. Where do I got to make a formal grievance or complaint about this moderstor.

Thanks.

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Shivi111

freshpopcorn wrote: »

I heard a good bit about these online at the weekend. Did anybody on Boards attend either of these?
I think it was official the Rally for Life and the counter march was organised by the repeal side. I know in my local town their was a bus organised by the Rally for Life group. According to the net their was meant to have be a good turn out for the Rally for Life protest. This was discredited by repeal the 8th side but either side always tend to think they've a massive group and the other side is smaller.
From social media it appears to the same people commenting from both sides all the time in my experience with the typical comments getting all the likes. Outside of the internet/news articles I have never really heard many people on about it to be honest.
It will be a very interesting to see how a vote on this will go in my opinion it will all depend on what people are voting for. One thing I have noticed is repeal votes seem to be alienating the on the fence voters more so than the pro-life campaign.

For what it's worth, I was at the counter-demonstration, which was modest and gathered around the spire, and my impression was that it was a relatively large march (though nowhere near the 70K I've seen quoted) but reduced from previous years (when I was also at counter-demonstrations). Though, we thought that there seemed to be less obviously 'shipped in' American groups which might account for that.

For the most part, the group was older and, I thought, predominately male - though there was a good smattering of younger and female people there - a good number of the younger group were on buses and floats, maybe to make them more visible, but it actually made the crowd look more male dominated than it probably was.

Overall, the atmosphere was tense when the group reached the counter protest, which is understandable. The chant as they passed us was mostly one person shouting 'Pro' loudly and the group responding 'Life' (we joined in with the response of 'Choice'.)

The majority of people were carrying balloons and save the 8th signs, and there were very few homemade placards. There was a notable lack of the usual images of foetuses etc - we thought a definite effort had been made to move away from those. We saw some carrying religious statues and signs but these were in the minority too.

Some groups had white sheets with messages written on them, these were hard to read but someone in the counter demonstration read something that prompted them to shout 'Your bedsheets need references' which did get a laugh.

Overall, most people looked ahead and avoided eye contact with the counter demonstration, who mostly were chanting a mixture of 'Pro-Choice', 'Not the church, not the state, women must control their fate' and 'Pro-life, that's a lie, you don't care if women die'.

Some who engaged with the counter demonstration did so by simply making eye contact and saying the current slogan, or by saying 'Shame' (a response also being used by the counter-demonstration).

There were one or two marchers that I saw interact aggressively with the counter-demonstration, one woman in particular was moved away by the Garda when she tried to pull one of the counter-demonstrators into the march, but it was pretty low-level stuff, I didn't see anything similar from the counterside from my vantage point, but can't speak for further down the road. Some angry shouting from individuals on both sides, but the garda kept everyone moving so it didn't escalate much.

And that was it, I dunno, we walked away with the feeling that the pro-life/ anti-abortion side is losing momentum, maybe that was wishful thinking.

My impression, the whole thing was pretty uncontroversial in terms of the march and counter-demonstration interactions, much the same as usual with broadly good behaviour on both sides (bar the occasional idiot.)

freshpopcorn

super_furry wrote: »

It's not a case of not wanting men involved in the campaign, it's a case of pointing out the obvious ridiculousness of being told by a certain cohort of men what they should and shouldn't do with their womb. Of being called murderers for dealing with an issue that they'll never, ever have to face. Pointing out to someone that they shouldn't have to right to enforce a pregnancy on someone because of their religious beliefs.

Lots of women also enforce it on women to. Speaking as a young man I know more women who are involved in the campaign than men and these people wouldn't be religious.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

suicide_circus wrote: »

So they couldn't raise the funds to fly to England but could raise the funds to raise a child?

Well if you can't raise the funds, you don't have a choice. Your body isn't going to care that having a child might financially cripple you or leave you dependent on the state, it's carrying on with the pregnancy anyway. Irish law doesn't care either. Pregnant and poor, tough titty. Pregnant and solvent, what are you complaining about, go to England and keep that nasty business out of here.

I can understand why people might have pro-life views, I can't understand how any rational compassionate adult wants to keep the eighth and keep things the way they are.

Ben Gadot

freshpopcorn wrote: »

Does anybody know why people on the repeal campaign get very annoyed with men being involved in the pro-life campaign but it's okay for men to be involved with the repeal campaign?

That's up for debate based on posts in this thread and on social media from certain corners.

I have to say seeing the amount of people, and the diversity of the demograph, who turned up at that March has taken me aback.

Sometimes social media can trick one into thinking something is a foregone conclusion but I don't think there is one here now. I'd be concerned now, especially as how one poster pointed out earlier, that there doesn't to be one coherent voice or message in the choice lobby.

Syphonax

Lollipops23 wrote: »

I think most people with a realistic moral compass wouldn't dream of forcing someone through pregnancy, childbirth and rearing an unwanted child against their will.

Sounds infinitely more cruel and traumatic in my opinion.

Maybe she should look after herself properly and not get into a situation where the outcome is an unwanted baby. Wiping yourself of any responsibility by having an abortion as the final outcome because you simply didnt plan to get pregnant is not the sign of someone with a strong morale compass, rather the opposite.

RobertKK

One can support abortion if they believe that when they look back on their own life and when they were conceived, that it would have been better if they had not been allowed to be born.
Everyone comes from an existence in the womb, it is a bigger issue than just a woman's choice.

One has to be comfortable in believing that other lives in the wombs of their mothers should not be given the same chance that oneself was given and allowed to experience.

super_furry

Fine. Take out the word religious then, it still stands.

Syphonax

PhoenixParker wrote: »

And I would think that most people with a good set of morals would object to forcing a woman to allow a parasite to take over her body for nine months and undergo the hardship pregnancy often entails.

Everyday real people die because as a society we allow everyone bodily autonomy and don't forcibly harvest the kidneys, bone marrow and blood that could save lives. There is no reason to accord an unborn child greater rights then the living.

First time Ive ever heard of a child in the womb referred to as a parasite, says loads about you if you use that terminology. As for the rest of your post, I can make any sense of it.

Who is asking for more rights for an unborn child? The child in the womb has no voice at all except for those of us who think we should speak up for them.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

Syphonax wrote: »

Maybe she should look after herself properly and not get into a situation where the outcome is an unwanted baby. Wiping yourself of any responsibility by having an abortion as the final outcome because you simply didnt plan to get pregnant is not the sign of someone with a strong morale compass, rather the opposite.

Having an abortion is taking responsibility. It's only immoral if you think abortion or sex is wrong, which plenty of people whose moral compasses are just fine and dandy don't think.

I look after myself very well by ensuring that I have a loving, safe and satisfying sex life, and should that result in a pregnancy I'll take care of that situation by getting an abortion.

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ohnonotgmail

RobertKK wrote: »

One can support abortion if they believe that when they look back on their own life and when they were conceived, that it would have been better if they had not been allowed to be born.
Everyone comes from an existence in the womb, it is a bigger issue than just a woman's choice.

One has to be comfortable in believing that other lives in the wombs of their mothers should not be given the same chance that oneself was given and allowed to experience.

not this dumb argument again. seriously.

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Lollipops23

Syphonax wrote: »

Maybe she should look after herself properly and not get into a situation where the outcome is an unwanted baby. Wiping yourself of any responsibility by having an abortion as the final outcome because you simply didnt plan to get pregnant is not the sign of someone with a strong morale compass, rather the opposite.

And when contraceptive fails? Or if she makes a one-off bad decision, as most of us have done at some stage, she should be penalised for life?

And then there's the cases involving rape, or abusive relationships? That's her "getting herself into the situation?

It must be lovely in your world, where you've never made a mistake or have anything beyond your control happen to you....

RobertKK

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

not this dumb argument again. seriously.

Just look at your own reply, you have not even debated the point.

It is an uncomfortable truth that I posted.

zedhead

Syphonax wrote: »

Maybe she should look after herself properly and not get into a situation where the outcome is an unwanted baby. Wiping yourself of any responsibility by having an abortion as the final outcome because you simply didnt plan to get pregnant is not the sign of someone with a strong morale compass, rather the opposite.

It always comes down to punishing a women for daring to have sex and not be prepared for the consequences, regardless of the fact that there are always 2 people involved.

RobertKK wrote: »

One can support abortion if they believe that when they look back on their own life and when they were conceived, that it would have been better if they had not been allowed to be born.
Everyone comes from an existence in the womb, it is a bigger issue than just a woman's choice.

One has to be comfortable in believing that other lives in the wombs of their mothers should not be given the same chance that oneself was given and allowed to experience.

I don't think the world would be any better or worse had I been aborted. I am sure it would have been the right choice for my parents if they had chosen that path. To be honest I think my life is wholly irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. What I am grateful for is that I had parents who were in a position to raise me in a home filled with love and where all my requirements were met.

RobertKK

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So you believe in inequality for life in the womb, where some are allowed to live and others lives get killed in the womb.
You see your own life as being above the other lives taken through abortion?

Just curious.

super_furry

Syphonax wrote: »

Maybe she should look after herself properly and not get into a situation where the outcome is an unwanted baby. Wiping yourself of any responsibility by having an abortion as the final outcome because you simply didnt plan to get pregnant is not the sign of someone with a strong morale compass, rather the opposite.

Sounds awfully like 'she deserves it' to me.

Lollipops23

RobertKK wrote: »

So you believe in inequality for life in the womb,

At 6 weeks it's barely more sentient than a skin tag.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

And that's your prerogative and I can pretty much see the logic, though I don't agree. And I may well find myself having to do that rather than getting an early medical abortion because of the difficulty and expense of having to travel to access it. It's happened to other women I know.

So do you keep some of that anger for the people who actively campaign to maintain a situation where Irish women get later abortions than they wanted? IE the people at the march for Life?

Syphonax

Lollipops23 wrote: »

And when contraceptive fails? Or if she makes a one-off bad decision, as most of us have done at some stage, she should be penalised for life?

And then there's the cases involving rape, or abusive relationships? That's her "getting herself into the situation?

It must be lovely in your world, where you've never made a mistake or have anything beyond your control happen to you....

There is loads of time before a baby matures in the womb to deal with the the "excuses" you have put forth.

Dont jump down my throat about rape cases when you clearly have no idea of my opinion on the matter. I am for abortion in very limited circumstances, such as rape.

yes people do make mistakes but are far to quick to go for the easy, get out of jail, option, as opposed to standing up and dealing with their "mistakes" You sound like the easy option type of person, who continues to make the same mistake one after the other as you fail to learn.

Syphonax

super_furry wrote: »

Sounds awfully like 'she deserves it' to me.

Sounds like you need your hearing checked so.

hatrickpatrick

I must say the reported size of it certainly worries me a little - I never thought it would be a walk in the park for repeal but I did expect there to be an enthusiasm gap, which there doesn't seem to be if the reported attendance of this is anything to go by.

Having said that, I really don't think holding simultaneous and co-located counter rallies is ever a good idea. Let them have their moment and then try and have an even bigger repeal rally the following week would have been a better strategy IMO.

Lollipops23

Syphonax wrote: »

Dont jump down my throat about rape cases when you clearly have no idea of my opinion on the matter. I am for abortion in very limited circumstances, such as rape.

How come it's murder if I feel unable to feed and raise a child, but not murder if the child's father forces himself on me? What's the line for you?

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