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Child Item

1000's of kids making their communion today

Kenny Bania

Are people just not aware that the Catholic Church molested 10's of 1000's of kids around the world and covered it up, or do they just not care?

Why are people cool with kids being molested, especially being parents themselves? And I believe they must be "cool" with it, otherwise why would they voluntarily choose to associate with this very same organisation.

And not only that, a few weeks before their communion, they send their kid into a box with a dirty old man who asks them about all the naught things they've been getting up to lately!! aka 'first confession'. They're 8 - they have nothing to confess to you, ya big weirdo FFS!

Am I the one that's crazy here? Is it okay to molest thousands of kids? People seem cool with it.

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philstar

the thing is this...

Irish nationalism and Catholicism goes hand in hand the two are tightly intertwined

its to do with our tribalistic past, the whole catholic vs protestant thingy

its embedded in the irish psyche

catbear

philstar wrote: »

the thing is this...

Irish nationalism and Catholicism goes hand in hand the two are tightly intertwined

its to do with our tribalistic past, the whole catholic vs protestant thingy

its embedded in the irish psyche

That's why outsiders probably end up getting the cold shoulder when they criticize such matters. No matter what the local says about their religion or lack of, the fact that invaders used religion to dispossess and persecute their ancestors always makes them weary.

robindch

catbear wrote: »

[...] invaders used religion to dispossess and persecute their ancestors [...]

I'm not sure the RCC wasn't beyond using religion to do exactly the same thing itself.

catbear

robindch wrote: »

I'm not sure the RCC wasn't beyond using religion to do exactly the same thing itself.

The Pope gave an english king permission to invade Ireland.

A later pope was an ally of William of Orange. There's even a Dutch Master painting celebrating Williams victory that the Orange Order bought back in the 1920s but has been discretely hidden in Stormount as it shows the Pope conferring his blessing on a billy mounted on his white horse! They obviously bought it without seeing it!

philstar

are you sure its not the archbishop of canterbury??

catbear

philstar wrote: »

are you sure its not the archbishop of canterbury??

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/5263210.stm

robindch

Statistics collected from 189 families show that parents are now spending EUR845 per communion child, up a miserly 1% on last year. The amount collected by each child averages EUR 570, with 23% receiving more than EUR800, and 13% receiving more than EUR1,000.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/religion-and-beliefs/parents-spend-an-average-of-845-on-first-communion-1.3133256?mode=amp

Absolam

I think I need to make my communion again...

Peregrinus

If the kids would just make a bit more of an effort, the whole thing could be self-financing.

recedite

Peregrinus wrote: »

If the kids would just make a bit more of an effort, the whole thing could be self-financing.

Yes, if the parents introduce a 100% tax rate on their kids, and the kids put in a bit more effort at selling themselves, the whole thing could be self financing.
A kind of Perpetual Money Machine, where everyone's a winner.

Absolam

What do you mean if? I still haven't seen my communion money since the day I got it!

recedite

It must have been lodged in the Bank of Dad, but unfortunately that bank's assets were liquidated down at the pub.
Hard luck

realdanbreen

robindch wrote: »

Statistics collected from 189 families show that parents are now spending EUR845 per communion child, up a miserly 1% on last year. The amount collected by each child averages EUR 570, with 23% receiving more than EUR800, and 13% receiving more than EUR1,000.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/religion-and-beliefs/parents-spend-an-average-of-845-on-first-communion-1.3133256?mode=amp

It's crazy to be spending that kind of money. And when you consider that some of those families may not even believe it is even crazier.

robindch

realdanbreen wrote: »

It's crazy to be spending that kind of money. And when you consider that some of those families may not even believe it is even crazier.

Perhaps those who support the church could do more to speak out against this craziness?

I - for one - took no part in this stuff when various young relatives were being communionized, confirmated and so on. Each one received an edition of the bible together with a relevant plaster statue. For some reason, invitations weren't long in stopping.

recedite

robindch wrote: »

Each one received an edition of the bible together with a relevant plaster statue.

That's an excellent plan

I'll follow suit from now on. Should be good for a laugh, if nothing else.

realdanbreen

robindch wrote: »

Perhaps those who support the church could do more to speak out against this craziness?

I - for one - took no part in this stuff when various young relatives were being communionized, confirmated and so on. Each one received an edition of the bible together with a relevant plaster statue. For some reason, invitations weren't long in stopping.

I'm not sure if the families who don't believe would pay much attention to what the church might speak out about.

Hotblack Desiato

They paid attention all right when some parishes said they would insist on a fully stamped 'mass loyalty card' before first communion. Did that go ahead?

robindch

This year, communion cost inflation wildly outstripped cost-of-living increases, with the average cost of inducting a new member to the RCC rising around 8% to over €900 per inductee. Girls are taking home an average of around €650 and boys' takehome averages at around €590.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/average-cost-of-first-holy-communion-up-8-to-900-1.3935050

splinter65

robindch wrote: »

This year, communion cost inflation wildly outstripped cost-of-living increases, with the average cost of inducting a new member to the RCC rising around 8% to over €900 per inductee. Girls are taking home an average of around €650 and boys' takehome averages at around €590.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/average-cost-of-first-holy-communion-up-8-to-900-1.3935050

The cost is whatever the parents want it to be. The children get whatever their family friends and neighbors choose to give them.
What’s any of that got to do with the RCC?
It’s the same as the family holiday. Or Christmas.
You can plan your family holiday to be 2 weeks in a five star hotel in Disneyland Florida or a week in Fitzgerald’s caravan park in Tramore.
You can spend €100 on Christmas or €3000.
There’s no pressure from the RCC. In fact the RCC is making tentative attempts to do away with the first communion day as we know it. Parents who want their child to receive the sacrament of first Eucharist will be told to bring the child on any Sunday they think their ready.
But the parents in one parish were so angry about this that the priest had to reverse his plans
https://www.thejournal.ie/priest-reverses-decision-to-end-specific-date-for-first-communion-following-outrage-from-parents-4256217-Sep2018/
What do you want the priest to do exactly?

robindch

splinter65 wrote: »

What’s any of that got to do with the RCC?

Last time I checked, the RCC was organizing the general form of the main day itself, plus insisting that it was necessary, and via the RCC's control of over 90% of the country's primary school network, was also insisting that school kids waste an average of 2.5 hours per week which could be used to educate kids, but was instead spent with the teacher trying to persuade gullible children that the RCC's preposterous religious stories are actually true.

splinter65

robindch wrote: »

Last time I checked, the RCC was organizing the general form of the main day itself, plus insisting that it was necessary, and via the RCC's control of over 90% of the country's primary school network, was also insisting that school kids waste an average of 2.5 hours per week which could be used to educate kids, but was instead spent with the teacher trying to persuade gullible children that the RCC's preposterous religious stories are actually true.

But no child has to participate in first Eucharist preparation or confession prep or actually get their first Eucharist unless the parent actually wants them too.
You do know that children of other faiths and no faith are not only not forced, but not permitted to get first Eucharist?
And I’ve given you a link to what happened in even one parish when the RCC tried to do away with organizing the “main day” as you call it but you didn’t read the article.
Your trying to pretend that the RCC are frogmarching families into the church, when you actually know that that’s not true.
If catholic parents do want to have catholic children then they must be baptized and when their ready, get the sacraments of first Eucharist and confirmation.
But that’s entirely voluntary, and so is the dressing up and the party and the gifts, and if the catholic schools and the local clergy want to facilitate that wish for the parents then I really can’t understand what business it is of anyone else?
Can you explain specifically what your objection is?

smacl

splinter65 wrote: »

Can you explain specifically what your objection is?

No idea about other people, but I find it worrying that an important mechanism used by the major religion, that runs the larger part of our school system, perpetuates their religion is by agreeing and even encouraging the parents of young children to use bribery to get them to take part. As a religion, why is Catholicism in this country promoting greed in vulnerable young people for its own ends? Surely that is contrary to fundamental Christian tenets.

splinter65

smacl wrote: »

No idea about other people, but I find it worrying that an important mechanism used by the major religion, that runs the larger part of our school system, perpetuates their religion is by agreeing and even encouraging the parents of young children to use bribery to get them to take part. As a religion, why is Catholicism in this country promoting greed in vulnerable young people for its own ends? Surely that is contrary to fundamental Christian tenets.

I’ve already said that the children actually being put forward for first Eucharist, and the style in which they get the sacrament of first Eucharist is entirely in the control of the parents.
Where have you seen a priest encouraging bribery??!?
The parents voluntarily bring their children forward for sacraments.
The parents voluntarily make all the unnecessary purchases and arrangements for parties etc for the day.
The friends and family and neighbors voluntarily fill cards with money.
Millions of children all over the world make their first Eucharist with none of these trappings.
The school and the church are in control of none of these things.
Please tell me in what aspect you see the church “promoting greed”?

smacl

splinter65 wrote: »

Please tell me in what aspect you see the church “promoting greed”?

By virtue of the simple fact that they condone and openly preside over this wanton excess. One might think that the true Christian spirit would emphasize donating this excess wealth to the needy rather than spoiling young children but apparently not. Give the kids a day to remember so that they'll give their kids a day to remember and this self serving cycle of greed can grow and perpetuate itself seems more the case. That it serves the churches interest and they do nothing to stem it is blindingly obvious.

splinter65

smacl wrote: »

By virtue of the simple fact that they condone and openly preside over this wanton excess. One might think that the true Christian spirit would emphasize donating this excess wealth to the needy rather than spoiling young children but apparently not. Give the kids a day to remember so that they'll give their kids a day to remember and this self serving cycle of greed can grow and perpetuate itself seems more the case. That it serves the churches interest and they do nothing to stem it is blindingly obvious.

I posted an article pointing out what happened in Carlow when the parish tried to tell the parents that they weren’t going to do it any more.
But you’re not interested and I know that you’re totally frustrated by the vast volumes of people still bringing children to communion, year in year out but that’s entirely their choice as yours is not to have anything to do with it.
If your waiting for the RCC to die I wouldn’t hold my breath if I were you.
A religious statue on church property in our town has been vandalized this week and the whole town is totally outraged.
Our large Syrian population are horrified and were on local radio today offering to contribute to the restoration.
I don’t have to tell you that nothing will encourage Christians as much as persecuting them. Because you know that already.

[Deleted User]

splinter65 wrote: »

I’ve already said that the children actually being put forward for first Eucharist, and the style in which they get the sacrament of first Eucharist is entirely in the control of the parents.
Where have you seen a priest encouraging bribery??!?
The parents voluntarily bring their children forward for sacraments.
The parents voluntarily make all the unnecessary purchases and arrangements for parties etc for the day.
The friends and family and neighbors voluntarily fill cards with money.
Millions of children all over the world make their first Eucharist with none of these trappings.
The school and the church are in control of none of these things.
Please tell me in what aspect you see the church “promoting greed”?

didnt a priest forbid them to do it in anything but school uniforms a while back? more of that sort of thing would be ok

GarIT

splinter65 wrote: »

But no child has to participate in first Eucharist preparation or confession prep or actually get their first Eucharist unless the parent actually wants them too.
You do know that children of other faiths and no faith are not only not forced, but not permitted to get first Eucharist?
And I’ve given you a link to what happened in even one parish when the RCC tried to do away with organizing the “main day” as you call it but you didn’t read the article.
Your trying to pretend that the RCC are frogmarching families into the church, when you actually know that that’s not true.
If catholic parents do want to have catholic children then they must be baptized and when their ready, get the sacraments of first Eucharist and confirmation.
But that’s entirely voluntary, and so is the dressing up and the party and the gifts, and if the catholic schools and the local clergy want to facilitate that wish for the parents then I really can’t understand what business it is of anyone else?
Can you explain specifically what your objection is?

You do know that kids not making their communion/confirmation are usually shoved in the corner or another classroom while their teacher wastes 2.5 hours per week preparing for communion/confirmation. If it was the children making their communion/confirmation that left the class with a different teacher then I'd sday your argument has a point.

splinter65

bluewolf wrote: »

didnt a priest forbid them to do it in anything but school uniforms a while back? more of that sort of thing would be ok

Well what they want to do is take all th “show” out of it but the parents create an awful stink which causes the school too much strife.

votecounts

The funny thing about the Communion in carlow was that the majority of the parents had never graced the door of the church before. Too interested in the keeping up the Jones and the inevitable piss up

splinter65

GarIT wrote: »

You do know that kids not making their communion/confirmation are usually shoved in the corner or another classroom while their teacher wastes 2.5 hours per week preparing for communion/confirmation. If it was the children making their communion/confirmation that left the class with a different teacher then I'd sday your argument has a point.

The majority of the Catholic children sent to the catholic school by their catholic parents would be expecting to get catholic sacrament instruction.
If the parents of the minority children not getting instruction are upset then why do they not make more of a fuss?
The Muslim children don’t join in any music or entertainment either as well as and they are all excelling and very happy.