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Child Item

Problems with sleeping

emilymemily

Im not sure if anyone can help me here but its worth a try. My whole life ive had issues with my sleep, as a teenager I could sleep for up to 15 hours a day but in my late teens/ early 20's my sleep really became very messed up and still is. I think I might be naturally nocturnal? I can only sleep during the day and no matter what I do I cant seem to change it, you can imagine how this interferes with my life and im constantly in a state of jet lag.

After being awake all night I try to stay awake all day for as long as possible so I will sleep at a normal hour but I get too tired to keep my eyes open and might fall asleep about 6 or 7pm but ill only sleep for 3 or 4 hours, wake up at 10pm wide awake and unable to sleep for another night not feeling sleepy again until well after 6 the following morning in which case I can sleep soundly for 10 hours straight, an alarm wont wake me up.

Sometimes my sleep does become regular but this only lasts a week or two, I'll be sleeping 8 to 10 hours a night, waking up early every morning but I will still feel a little bit tired and lethargic for most of the day, then its like my body starts fighting me to sleep during day time and stay awake at night, no matter what I do I wont be able to sleep all night and the cycle starts again.

Sometimes I go through short stages were ill only sleep for 6 hours, so no matter what time I go to bed I will wake up exactly 6 hours later. This is often before or after my body clock switches itself to or from nocturnal mode.

Ive tried everything to fix this, herbal sleeping pills, yoga, tea for helping you to sleep, breathing exercises, not eating in the evening, ASMR sleep videos on youtube, nothing works. I got sleeping tablets off a doctor years ago but they were only 5mg and they didnt keep me asleep, I would wake up but id be completely out of it, the next morning id have vague recollections of conversations with house mates (cringe) so im afraid to go down that road again.

When I havnt slept I cannot function, I cant even have a conversation or concentrate on anything so its really interfering with everything. Im in counselling but she doesnt understand, she just told me to do breathing exercises and tai chi, ive said it to various doctors but they were all very indifferent and just said to go to bed early.

Sorry for the lengthy post, im just at my wits end. Any advice at all is appreciated.

Thanks

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sashafierce

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Permabear

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[Deleted User]

Can you work nights? My family are all "night people" (incl myself) and a few work nights all the time as it suits their sleep pattern perfectly. I'd work nights myself if I could but it's not possible in my line of work but once it's the weekend or holidays I'm immediately awake until the very early hours and sleep till afternoon.

the14thwarrior

I can sympathise with you, i was like that for many years, and suspect I could be like that again, only I fought it. I fought it hard and someone told me that unless I decided I want to "face the world in the morning" nothing would change.

For me, it was about getting other people to understand me, but actually they don't. I am older now, but to this day, I need an alarm clock to wake me up and the snooze is turned on and off automatically and I don't even remember it. I spent years falling asleep at about 6 in the morning and struggling to get up for work. this is doable when you are young. I went through a period when I was a student, working late, getting up a few hours later and managing to get through a very hard degree. and then a new career. Doable but harder as I was older. But I fought the nocturnal animal in me, and I won. My work would not allow for a night time job so that was out. I come alive at night, I can stay up till 4 every morning but I choose not to.

I have little advice, only sympathy. I have to say when I finally told someone and they listened, i felt better. When I went to a counsellor I told her I did not want to talk about routines, hot baths, books, lavender, quiet comfortable bedroom, only sex in the bedroom and all the other stuff people think will help you. Been there wore the bedroom t-shirt.

If I have a flight to catch I often don't go asleep, or I set two alarms, one across the room. I prepare everything the night before that I need for the next day - be it work clothes, lunch, suitcase if I am going away etc. When I say to people I've never woken up naturally they laugh and say you don't have children or else you would. i disbelieve. I have been working for over 30 years, and i still don't wake up at a "normal" time i.e. 8 o clock for work. I have been setting my alarm for over 30 years for work and I have NEVER woken up naturally. Its hilarious but I'm used to me. To being me.
So I had to start accepting that I was a night person, in a day world, and I made myself go to bed between 11 and 12 every night and I lay in my bed determined not to "be different" and decided to treat it as an incurable illness that I can't be cured of, and therefore need to endure. This worked for me. as simple as that, I know I was different, but I choose to fight it.

Mr. Incognito

Sleep is fascinating and the current 8 hour one sleep cycle is not the bodys natural rythum.

Have a read and perhaps try this

http://slumberwise.com/science/your-ancestors-didnt-sleep-like-you/

December2012

Have you contacted a sleep clinic about it?

What changes can you make to your life so this is not a problem

*eadaoin

If you Google the term 'sleep hygiene' you'll get a load of advice on getting good quality sleep. I see that you've tried a lot of things, but I don't see you mention anywhere that you've tried the basics of good sleep hygiene so I'll list them here for you in case they're of any help.

- Don't have caffeine after 2pm, in your situation I wouldn't have caffeine at all until my sleep was totally sorted out again. This includes tea, chocolate, soft drinks like Coke and energy drinks.

- Don't use your bed for anything but sleep and sex. Don't sit in there to watch TV or to read, keep it strictly for sleep. Over time this will train your brain to associate your bed with sleep and it will become easier to drop off.

- Make your room as dark as you possibly can. No digital clocks, no electronics, use black out blinds. If you can't make your room dark then use a sleeping mask.

- Keep the temperature cool as it's harder to sleep when you're too warm.

- Don't use electronics like your phone or computer for the hour before you go to bed. Instead read a book or listen to music. The blue light from your phone, computer and tea has been shown to cause problems with the natural melatonin your body creates to help you sleep. To minimise this use the app flux on your computer and phone, or using iphone you can use their nightshift setting - these apps change the light on your device from blue to orange in the evening, which is gentler on your eyes and better for melatonin production.

- For the same reason, keep the lighting in your bedroom low, in particular for the last hour before bed. Keep it soft. There's a company called Lumie that produce natural daylight lights and clocks, some of their clocks have a 'sunset' setting that will gradually dim the light until it turns off completely, I've found this really helpful when getting to sleep.

- Exercise during the day will help you sleep better at night.

- Don't nap, ever! I see you saying that sometimes you sleep earlier in the evening and wake up then later at night, this really messes with your sleep schedule and it's only going to do you more harm than good, try to avoid it as much as you possibly can.

- Don't look at the time when you wake up at night. If you wake, don't do anything too stimulating, try to engage in something relaxing that will help you to drift off again. I usually put in my earphones and listen to a relaxing podcast, music or meditation. Sometimes I listen to TV shows too, but just listening not watching as the light from your phone isn't good to be looking at if you're awake in the middle of the night.

- Take a very hot shower or bath before bed, the heat will help you feel sleepy.

- Some foods like banana, turkey and warm milk contain a chemical called tryptophan which can help with sleep, but don't eat a big meal before bed.

- Get up at the same time and go to sleep at the same time as much as you can. Keep a regular sleeping schedule.

- I think you know this one already, but meditation before bed can help you to unwind and prepare for sleep too.

There is lots more information out there to help you if you look around with the term 'sleep hygiene'. The idea is that when you stick strictly to these rules for a while, you retrain your brain back to a regular sleep schedule.

Humans are not nocturnal, your body and brain are designed to have you awake during the day and sleeping at night. It just sounds like after years of bad sleeping patterns your sleep cycle is pretty messed up and you need to train yourself back into healthier habits.

Some people advocate taking a camping trip in nature for a week or two, to reset your sleep schedule to the natural rhythm of the sunrise and sunset. You'd have to avoid looking at your electronics and be really strict about this for it to work. There's loads of information online about this too.

Other people advocate taking melatonin supplements before bed to help with sleep, I would ask your doctor about this one as I'm not sure how it works. I know that magnesium and some of the vitamin Bs can help too, but don't know enough to give you proper information I'm afraid.

I've been through the wringer with sleep problems of my own, I know how exhausting it is. I hope you manage to get some good quality sleep soon xx

Emme

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

Sleep is fascinating and the current 8 hour one sleep cycle is not the bodys natural rythum.

Have a read and perhaps try this

http://slumberwise.com/science/your-ancestors-didnt-sleep-like-you/

Apparently two short sleep cycles were normal until the Industrial Revolution. In Mediterranean countries some people still have a siesta in the evening as well as their night time sleep.

beans

10mg melatonin 30 mins before bed, along with the good advice above re general sleep hygiene. It's a godsend. No residual drowsiness the next day.

amtc

Yeah melatonin works for me. Plus sometimes I get up and sleep in the spare room. I don't know why this works but it does! Didn't sleep great recently as washed bed linen in lavender scented stuff and was nearly overcome by fumes!

I also know this seems completely nuts but I read this article which suggested that you...when going to bed...bang your head off your pillow or a chair back the number of times you wish to wake up. I have tried this, initially more to disprove it . But it works! So today I needed to get up at six to wake my friend for an airport flight. So the two of us sat here last night and banged our heads off the back of the sofa six times. We both woke up dead on six. It may seem odd and certainly my friend thought i was nuts but the theory is that your subconscious now knows it's ok to go asleep as it has a signal to wake up!

beans

amtc wrote: »

I also know this seems completely nuts but...

That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard!

*sets reminder on phone to try this*

emilymemily

Thanks for all your suggestions, ill definitely try all of them out. Ill also buy a box of melatonin this week. I really appreciate all the advice and comments. Thanks everyone x

Leogirl

Cab you get melatonin in the pharmacy or on prescription?

beans

Leogirl wrote: »

Cab you get melatonin in the pharmacy or on prescription?

I know you can buy it on ebay, that's where I get mine. Swanson's 10mg works a treat.

Leogirl

beans wrote: »

Leogirl wrote: »

Cab you get melatonin in the pharmacy or on prescription?

I know you can buy it on ebay, that's where I get mine. Swanson's 10mg works a treat.

Thank you. I'm on tamoxifen and have terrible trouble sleeping, I have hears from other cancer patients abroad that this is good for it.

gline

Leogirl wrote: »

Cab you get melatonin in the pharmacy or on prescription?

Neither, in Ireland. It can be purchased as a health supplement online. It also works differently for some people. If I take it 2 days in a row it wont work on the second night, I need about a week between doses for it to be effective. Also gives me some grogginess the next morning.

Persiancowboy

Have you ever considered having your thyroid checked? I know the rules around offering medical advice but a thyroid imbalance can have negative effects on a person's sleep patterns.