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Is there anybody else who dislikes pride?

AnSliabhCorcra

Hi

I sense I might be about to get a bashing on here:rolleyes: but nonetheless.

So - I'm 28 - I'm gay, in fact, I'm in a long-terms relationship with another man and due to get married this year so I'm definitely gay. I've never been camp and I usually throw off people's gaydar, something, which I'm quite happy about. That said however, I am proud to be gay.

I do, however, detest pride events. My sexuality, for me, is something very private and personal; I see myself as a completely normal person leading a completely normal life. I feel that I don't want to be associated with Pride because the extravagance of dressing up and screaming 'gay gay gay' from the rooftops really isn't my thing. I guess I don't want society to see me as 'part of that club' nor do I want my sexuality to be symbolised by the on-goings of a gay pride.

I've just put on my bullet-proof vest (not my pride costume!) and so I await your bashing! I'd love to hear your thoughts though!

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Ash885

People can wear or be whatever the want on Pride, or anyday for that matter. I spent enough of my life paranoid about what people thought of me and what I get up to; don't have the energy anymore to worry bout others.

Plus some of the detail and effort people put into costumes is amazing. Also I'm a huge Drag race fan so the more people expressing themselves however way they feel - super.

What I do dislike for Pride now, in my old mid 20s age, is seeing how utterly commercial it is. I'm okay with sponsors funding LGBT events and what not, and understand Pride itself in its current form may not happen without this funding, but if you see social media, outside shops etc., people are really pandering to LGBT audiences.

Companies, media outlets who weren't exactly at the forefront of LGBT issues when it wasn't trendy or popular now are everywhere in the rainbow colours. Last year's parade an endless cycle of corporate advertising. Free whistles with logos on it, free banners with logos on it, free whatever with logos on it. Logos with logos on it!

Other than that, be as gay as you want!

/rant over

Mr.Frame

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Fridges?

Dont be so cold

Mr.Frame

Ash885 wrote: »

People can wear or be whatever the want on Pride, or anyday for that matter. I spent enough of my life paranoid about what people thought of me and what I get up to; don't have the energy anymore to worry bout others.

Plus some of the detail and effort people put into costumes is amazing. Also I'm a huge Drag race fan so the more people expressing themselves however way they feel - super.

What I do dislike for Pride now, in my old mid 20s age, is seeing how utterly commercial it is. I'm okay with sponsors funding LGBT events and what not, and understand Pride itself in its current form may not happen without this funding, but if you see social media, outside shops etc., people are really pandering to LGBT audiences.

Companies, media outlets who weren't exactly at the forefront of LGBT issues when it wasn't trendy or popular now are everywhere in the rainbow colours. Last year's parade an endless cycle of corporate advertising. Free whistles with logos on it, free banners with logos on it, free whatever with logos on it. Logos with logos on it!

Other than that, be as gay as you want!

/rant over

I agree, these companies have all of a sudden jumped on the bandwagon as it were.
Where were these companies in the years before we got equality?

The most shocking part of your comment was,"in my old mid 20s age,"
Gawd, mid 20s is old now ????
I feel ancient , thanks !

Annasopra

Mr.Frame wrote: »

Dont be so cold

I actually dont know what that was about though?

Mr.Frame

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

I actually dont know what that was about though?

I think the poster Manion meant fringes not fridges

Annasopra

Mr.Frame wrote: »

I think the poster Manion meant fringes not fridges

Oh ok. Minority groups. Yeah no I disagree with Manion on that. Just look at how travellers are treated like absolute scum of the earth.

the_syco

I'm straight, and I view Pride as shoving gayness down peoples throats.

And I support this, as otherwise it'd be brushed under the carpet and ignored.

eaglach wrote: »

I don't understand how these events are supposed to promote gay pride.

I see it more of a day that people who are in the closet can be "out" for a day.

eaglach wrote: »

For me, it comes across as an excuse to dress up in random outfits and express some of your sexual fetishes.

Are you perhaps getting mixed up with Halloween? :pac:

Barna77

Is there anybody else who dislikes pride?

Annasopra

the_syco wrote: »

I'm straight, and I view Pride as shoving gayness down peoples throats.

And I support this, as otherwise it'd be brushed under the carpet and ignored.

I see it more of a day that people who are in the closet can be "out" for a day.

Are you perhaps getting mixed up with Halloween? :pac:

Pride is many things to me. A celebration of culture and diversity. Coming together as a diverse community. A chance to meet friends and have fun. A rejection of societal homophobia and shame. A time to feel pride walking the streets while letting go of my own internalised homophobia.

I understand cynicism about Pride as I don't like like corporate aspect or the lets all get seriously hammered aspect but I really don't understand attitudes that want to shame pride because it's not normal enough, not heterosexual enough, not rigid enough in portraying conservative traditional views of gender and sexuality.

eaglach

robyntmorton wrote: »

Unfortunately, Eaglach, I get the feeling that you just want to complain.

Pride, as B&C said, is about the diversity of the LGBTQ community. If you feel that Pride does not represent you, that's a pity. There are positive things you can do though! Why not start by finding a group that you feel does represent you. If one doesn't exist, put feelers out about creating one. From there, get involved in Pride as a group, so that you are represented and it does represent you. Show those watching that there is yet another facet to the community, that doesn't feel the need to be OTT.

Or, of course, you can refuse to take part, and complain that you are not represented, and misrepresented. That is your perogotive. I must ask you though, does that option help you, anyone, or anything in any way?

I'm really not one to complain, but this particular topic sticks with me. I just don't like pride, how people behave at pride and also being associated with pride.

Again, people are free to do what they want, and yes, that even includes going to the pride parade dressed as a giant penis (which I've seen before). I just feel that when people choose to do it, while it may make them feel great on the day because they can have a laugh dressing up in a way they normally wouldn't, it's ultimately damaging to others in the community.

I get that it's all about inclusion, diversity and acceptance, but when you are actively trying to be different and off the wall, what does it achieve?

eaglach

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

I really don't understand attitudes that want to shame pride because it's not normal enough, not heterosexual enough, not rigid enough in portraying conservative traditional views of gender and sexuality.

Do you not accept that there are social norms?

If you saw someone walking down the street with just a pair of underpants and some fairy wings, you would have to think that it's not normal. But when it's in a the gay pride parade, then it's acceptable?

What message is the parade trying to send?

I'm all for people being themselves, but there is a limit. If everyone did what they felt like, the world would fall apart! I'm certainly a proponent of a level of order in day to day life, but I accept that people should try to find an outlet where they can express their true selves. That doesn't necessarily mean in a very public setting!

Annasopra

eaglach wrote: »

Do you not accept that there are social norms?

If you saw someone walking down the street with just a pair of underpants and some fairy wings, you would have to think that it's not normal. But when it's in a the gay pride parade, then it's acceptable?

What message is the parade trying to send?

I'm all for people being themselves, but there is a limit. If everyone did what they felt like, the world would fall apart! I'm certainly a proponent of a level of order in day to day life, but I accept that people should try to find an outlet where they can express their true selves. That doesn't necessarily mean in a very public setting!

Yeah I have absolutely no problem with that. Drag isnt my thing but who am I to police or judge or shame others.

You keep contradicting yourself on this; claiming people should be themselves but then you keep using language that is judgemental and condemnatory of people being themselves.

baby and crumble

eaglach wrote: »

Do you not accept that there are social norms?

If you saw someone walking down the street with just a pair of underpants and some fairy wings, you would have to think that it's not normal. But when it's in a the gay pride parade, then it's acceptable?

Tbh I'd think to myself "oh there's a person in underpants. Fair play to him" and then I'd probably forget about it because it doesn't have anything to do with me.

Likewise hen parties with penis garlands etc. No skin off my nose, do what you like. So long as no laws are broken then what's the problem?

Mrs Shuttleworth

Today a Dublin Bus zoomed past me with "Dublin Bus Pride" embossed on the side and cloaked in the rainbow spectrum.

Walked past Marks & Spencer Henry Street, saw a full display "LGBT x Marks & Spencer" and all the windows draped in rainbow flags. I was going to buy food/wine in there but the whole edifice was so manipulative I kept moving.

Strikes me as a top down population control exercise. Encourage same-sex sexuality to shift reproductive rights further into the hands of the State.

Bang to your hearts content to the sounds of Marvin Gaye now, for in the future you'll stare out of a cell in Mountjoy for it.

ceebee1981

Mrs Shuttleworth wrote: »

Today a Dublin Bus zoomed past me with "Dublin Bus Pride" embossed on the side and cloaked in the rainbow spectrum.

Walked past Marks & Spencer Henry Street, saw a full display "LGBT x Marks & Spencer" and all the windows draped in rainbow flags. I was going to buy food/wine in there but the whole edifice was so manipulative I kept moving.

Strikes me as a top down population control exercise. Encourage same-sex sexuality to shift reproductive rights further into the hands of the State.

Bang to your hearts content to the sounds of Marvin Gaye now, for in the future you'll stare out of a cell in Mountjoy for it.

Yes it was a clever marketing campaign that made me attracted to men.

Locking all the gay men up in Mountjoy will really stop us "banging to our hearts content", great idea.

Annasopra

Mrs Shuttleworth wrote: »

Today a Dublin Bus zoomed past me with "Dublin Bus Pride" embossed on the side and cloaked in the rainbow spectrum.

Walked past Marks & Spencer Henry Street, saw a full display "LGBT x Marks & Spencer" and all the windows draped in rainbow flags. I was going to buy food/wine in there but the whole edifice was so manipulative I kept moving.

Strikes me as a top down population control exercise. Encourage same-sex sexuality to shift reproductive rights further into the hands of the State.

Bang to your hearts content to the sounds of Marvin Gaye now, for in the future you'll stare out of a cell in Mountjoy for it.

Ah this stuff is all quite laughable really. I actually burst out laughing when I read this shïte. Marks and Spencers and Dublin Bus are in collusion with the state to promote gayness so that the state can introduce abortion. As for the Mountjoy bit. Think again.

You're in the wrong forum dear.

http://m.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=576

Don't bother posting your homophobic ideas that gay men should be jailed for sex in this forum again

Manion

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Oh ok. Minority groups. Yeah no I disagree with Manion on that. Just look at how travellers are treated like absolute scum of the earth.

You disagree that this is often a reason trotted out or you disagree with it being valid. I don't get the traveller reference.

Manion

Edit. Dont comment on moderation

august12

cubix wrote:

Ging: Have read some posts alright about parts of France/ towns feeling like a holiday resort where every one packs up/ places close for winter. I think I could happily live by the sea or the mountainous areas but feel the slightly in land option would have more to offer for day to day living with the option to drive to other spots. I would be happy in the middle of now where with 5-10acres woodland perched up on a hill side but know the rest of the gang would be more practical and would like the rural feel but be close to a busy enough village/town. None of us have another languages so as you say this can put you on the back foot. Don't think I would be brave enough to build straight away so would look for something already built and adapt as we go. As mentioned I like the idea of seasons and for this reason think S/France- N/ Spain would provide this with summers that feel warm and winters were you would most likely get snow.

AnSliabhCorcra wrote:

I do, however, detest pride events. My sexuality, for me, is something very private and personal; I see myself as a completely normal person leading a completely normal life. I feel that I don't want to be associated with Pride because the extravagance of dressing up and screaming 'gay gay gay' from the rooftops really isn't my thing. I guess I don't want society to see me as 'part of that club' nor do I want my sexuality to be symbolised by the on-goings of a gay pride.

I just had a discussion with my hairdresser about this yesterday, I said exactly what you have just stated, my view is, live and let live but why this big public charade with regard to sexuality, I don't get it and think it's a bit ott, we both agreed on this, male/female relationships aren't out parading their sexuality, why the need for same sex relationships to feel they have to parade their sexuality. I'm sure there are lots of couples who cringe when they witness these parades, for the most part, people want to live a quiet, peaceful, normal life.

Manion

the_syco wrote: »

I'm straight, and I view Pride as shoving gayness down peoples throats.

And I support this, as otherwise it'd be brushed under the carpet and ignored.

I see it more of a day that people who are in the closet can be "out" for a day.

Are you perhaps getting mixed up with Halloween? :pac:

I'm irish and I dislike St Patricks day because it's shoves a form of Irishness down a lot of people throat. Usually the form includes drunken violence of some form. It's fairly easy not to engage with pride. The same cannot be said for other annual festivals

Mrs Shuttleworth

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Ah this stuff is all quite laughable really. I actually burst out laughing when I read this shïte. Marks and Spencers and Dublin Bus are in collusion with the state to promote gayness so that the state can introduce abortion. As for the Mountjoy bit. Think again.

You're in the wrong forum dear.

http://m.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=576

Don't bother posting your homophobic ideas that gay men should be jailed for sex in this forum again

Bizarre histrionic response. I said THE STATE - not me - would like nothing more than to ultimately regulate ALL forms of sexual relations.

Clearly from the thread a lot of people feel uncomfortable with the direction Pride is taking. There is no reason for corporations - Dublin Bus, M&S, Ulster Bank FFS - to be involving themselves in this event. It's being pushed on people. Why?

Barna77

The black fencing around the square looks ridiculous.
Segregation more like

gizmo81

Straight people haven't been persecuted for their relationships.

Pride is a commemoration of the the Stoenwall Riots, A protest for LGBTQ+ people around the world that we stand in solidarity with them. A celebration after years of oppression and a reminder that we still are not equal.

Why do you want to deny us our history, our right to protest?

Just because you and your hairdresser view the way we express ourselves as different to use your words abnormal doesn't diminish our rights it only serves to show that our work is not done!

I hope my gayness makes people uncomfortable because I am a big filthy queer and that is their problem not mine!!!!

Happy Pride!!!

august12 wrote: »

I just had a discussion with my hairdresser about this yesterday, I said exactly what you have just stated, my view is, live and let live but why this big public charade with regard to sexuality, I don't get it and think it's a bit ott, we both agreed on this, male/female relationships aren't out parading their sexuality, why the need for same sex relationships to feel they have to parade their sexuality. I'm sure there are lots of couples who cringe when they witness these parades, for the most part, people want to live a quiet, peaceful, normal life.

Annasopra

Mrs Shuttleworth wrote: »

Bizarre histrionic response. I said THE STATE - not me - would like nothing more than to ultimately regulate ALL forms of sexual relations.

Clearly from the thread a lot of people feel uncomfortable with the direction Pride is taking. There is no reason for corporations - Dublin Bus, M&S, Ulster Bank FFS - to be involving themselves in this event. It's being pushed on people. Why?

Corporations are getting involved because a) they think its popular and they want to hop on the bandwagon and b) they see lgbt people generally as another commercial segment to market their product at. Your conspiracy theories are quite hilarious. No histrionics just laughter.

eviltwin

Mrs Shuttleworth wrote: »

Bizarre histrionic response. I said THE STATE - not me - would like nothing more than to ultimately regulate ALL forms of sexual relations.

Clearly from the thread a lot of people feel uncomfortable with the direction Pride is taking. There is no reason for corporations - Dublin Bus, M&S, Ulster Bank FFS - to be involving themselves in this event. It's being pushed on people. Why?

Do you feel the same way about displays for Christmas, Easter, St Patricks Day, sporting tournaments etc?

Personally I don't have any interest in Pride, its a bit of an afterthought for me and I would probably avoid town today if I wasn't working. I've seen all the Pride stuff around the place, never felt it was an attempt to push any kind of agenda. If it bothers you just ignore it just as you would anything else you aren't into.

baby and crumble

I'm intrigued by the use of the word "normal" so much.

Why the desire to fit in so much? If you say normal is what most people are then newsflash- being gay ISN'T normal. We're a minority. Get into a room of 100 people and only somewhere between 4-10 are gay. That's a FACT.

Maybe it's because I've never really even appeared "normal" in multiple senses that I don't understand why there's such a desire to fit in with everyone else. I grew up as a Protestant lesbian in rural Ireland who doesn't really drink alcohol or tea. Like that put me into the smallest Venn diagram sliver EVER.

YOU may not agree with Pride. Fine. But guess what? For the majority of this minority, it's a chance to cut loose and have a couple of days where the fabric of who we are, as a minority, is celebrated. It's a time when scared young teenagers can come up for the day from whatever village they live in and see a different world, one they want to be part of. They can see a world where people in same sex couples are walking around holding hands. They can learn and experience LGBTQ culture and history- because we DO have our own culture and history just like any other minority group.

Don't think for a MINUTE that because of marriage equality we are suddenly equal. Yeah we can get married now but don't forget that that referendum was passed by 62%- that leaves 38% who voted NO. That's over 1/3 of those who voted who don't think we deserve that right. There are still massive inequalities when it comes to mental health, drug and alcohol dependencies, experience of violence etc. I met a genderqueer person last night who got punched in the head a few days ago by a guy who was shouting that he wanted all f*ggots dead.

And you think that everyone accepts us? You think there aren't kids all around the country RIGHT NOW thinking they want to kill them selves because they're gay and they reckon their parents will hate them? Because that happens. In Ireland young gay people have one of the highest likelihoods of experiences homelessness of any other group.

Pride isn't just about dressing up in what YOU think are silly costumes. It's about for one day being able to show off who they are. If they were straight guess what- they'd probably be into leather anyway. A hell of a lot of straight people are.

And yes the corporations side of it is a bit bandwaggony but as someone who gets yelled at and asked to leave toilets and changing rooms because they think I'm a man, seeing the M&S display makes me a bit more comfortable to know that maybe that won't happen in there. Maybe they "get it". Maybe.

southstar

Jeez cant people just have a day out and celebrate ...and so what if some people get a little extrovert...that's the day thats in it.The sneaky dishonest depiction of the parade as an endless stream of near naked perverts is more see through that anything passing by on O Connell St(you"re not fooling anybody with that one)...go look at one on Youtube if you are too morally uptight to see for yourself oh and while you"re at it check out the movies, TV ads and billboards that abound with seemingly normal and routine sexualisation of the mundane..oh and the streets and pubs on any weekend night .. and then give me a lecture about morality and shoving gayness down your neck.Feck off and save your bull**** for the halfwits who want their beliefs reinforced.

Ash885

Mr.Frame wrote: »

I agree, these companies have all of a sudden jumped on the bandwagon as it were.
Where were these companies in the years before we got equality?

The most shocking part of your comment was,"in my old mid 20s age,"
Gawd, mid 20s is old now ????
I feel ancient , thanks !

I had a recent birthday and I'm closer to 30 than I'd like haha

Everyone have a great (and safe!) Pride!

Goodshape

baby and crumble wrote: »

I'm intrigued by the use of the word "normal" so much.

Why the desire to fit in so much? If you say normal is what most people are then newsflash- being gay ISN'T normal. We're a minority.

You're equating the word 'normal' with 'average', which is fine – that's certainly one of the definitions and probably most commonly what people mean when they say it. It's the first result when you Google for a definition of "normal" :

Google wrote:

1. conforming to a standard; usual, typical, or expected.

But by that definition, there's practically nobody in the world that can call themselves normal, or "average". That person does not exist. See the Tyranny of average. But yeah, most people – the "average person" – are not LGBTQ. They're also not white, possibly not male, certainly not European, etc... But that's getting away from things. That sort of normal is useful in statistics. It never truely defines an individual.

Another way to look at normal, again from the Google definitions :

Google wrote:

the usual, typical, or expected state or condition.

Offers a different perspective. My usual, typical, and expected state is that I am, among other things, a gay man. It's not an act or a show or something I can choose to put aside. It's what I am when I'm being my normal self. My typical, usual, and expected state.

So I do take issue with being called abnormal or other than normal, because I remember being in the closet and fighting against my own impulses. THAT was not normal, for me, and it's not a good way to be.

Three cheers for being your wonderful normal self and happy pride, everyone!

Vojera

OP, I'm not into Pride myself (I don't like big crowds and I'm very non-scene) but I still think there absolutely is a need for it.

I only ever went to Pride once and I can honestly say it changed my life. It was 12 or 13 years ago and I was only out to my close friends. I had never felt so accepted in my life. There was just so much love and joy and it was the first time in my life that I really felt, "hey, it's okay to be who you are". And there was a speech about how Pride is the opposite of shame, and how this is a day we can declare to the world that we are not ashamed of who we are. I cried a lot that day, all positive tears, because it was so overwhelming. And that has always stayed with me.

Even in just the last decade and a bit, we've come so far, but marriage equality isn't the end of the quest for equal treatment. I'm from rural Donegal and I know for a fact that teenagers at home are still afraid to come out because they're afraid to be rejected by those they love. I hope that those young people can look to the Pride celebrations and know that there are places where they will be accepted and cherished, regardless of their sexualities. I hope it remains a beacon for many years to come.

And so what if some people are more flamboyant than others? Visibility is important. My wife and I "pass" for straight and honestly, I emotionally walk a tightrope between feeling that I need to act like the most model "normal" person I can be, to prove to others that the LGBTQ+ community is filled with people just like them, and feeling a little like a traitor, that I should make the effort to be more visible, to be louder, because not everyone can choose.
So for this season, and one day in particular, let people remind the world of how wonderfully diverse we are, and that we are unashamed. If people believe the stereotype that because you're gay you're into showtunes and drag, that's their issue. It's up to you to show them, in your own way, that you represent another facet of our diverse community.