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Is North Korea a victim of western propaganda?

[Deleted User]

I'm not an apologist for North Korea, I wouldn't like to live there, I have no doubt it's dismal.

But I sometimes see people liking and sharing the most ridiculous (and sometimes, clearly false) stories about North Korea, with unstinting credulity.

First of all, the country is presented as being technologically mediaeval, despite the fact that it has nuclear technology possessed by only a handful of countries on the planet.

There is also the trope of dictatorship, when in fact Kim Jon Un is neither the Head of Government nor the Head of Parliament (yes, there is a parliament in North Korea)

Kim Jong Un is only head of the military and head of the State Affairs Commission, the latter of which is also mainly to do with defence, and his role on which can be outvoted or abrogated by that Commission.

I also believe that Kim Jong Un would be a socialist icon if he had the dashing good looks of a young Che Guevara, but is instead reviled as a lunatic (but why?) despot because of his chubby appearance.

Oh and another thing, that diagram of acceptable North Korean haircuts has been widely debunked.

Western media also seem to accept without question the testimonies of those who have fled North Korea, without pausing to consider that these people are political opponents of the State, and of course they are going to present it in a bad light. Some of their claims are ludicrous, and have been retracted after being shown to be false.

I'm not saying North Korea is some utopia, but how many of you have actually thought critically about how it is portrayed, and have sought a balanced reporting on North Korean political and social life?

Have you ever considered that at least *part* of what you're swallowing may be propaganda?

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ohnonotgmail

....... wrote: »

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i'm so sorry i watched that.

ohnonotgmail

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

The author of the book I'm referencing is an Ivy League academic.

I am simply suggesting people approach the news media with a critical hat on, and that we do not swallow everything we read without seeking out the alternative narrative, if it exists.

but you have looked at one image and decided it is the absolute truth and anything else is a fake. not very critical.

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[Deleted User]

Ursus Horribilis wrote: »

So what's your take on Otto Warmbier being returned from North Korea as a borderline vegetable? Is that a conspiracy?

Of course it isn't.

Have you read anything of the thread? How many more times do I have to call North Korea a basketcase, and criticize it, before *some* people understand the question I am asking?

[Deleted User]

Ipso wrote: »

You do know there is a conspiracy theory section where you can sneer at the sheeple for not taking their news from someone who lives in a basement.

The author of the book I'm referencing is an Ivy League academic.

I am simply suggesting people approach the news media with a critical hat on, and that we do not swallow everything we read without seeking out the alternative narrative, if it exists.

Korat

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Yeah, that image is 100% fake, for anyone who isn't aware.

Genuine satellite images of North Korea at night show that it is indistinguishable from the South.

Show me one.

Ursus Horribilis

So what's your take on Otto Warmbier being returned from North Korea as a borderline vegetable? Is that a conspiracy?

Ipso

You do know there is a conspiracy theory section where you can sneer at the sheeple for not taking their news from someone who lives in a basement.

[Deleted User]

....... wrote: »

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It's from Vishaan Chakrabarti's book, A Country of Cities. It's about America but briefly gives images of global regions by way of comparison.

A very unlikely and elaborate conspiracy theory to believe that is propaganda.

[Deleted User]

Skylinehead wrote: »

I searched for "Asia at night". Now considering there's little cloud, they're mostly composite images, but I wouldn't call them "fake". Maybe the poweroffs at night is an explanation, but the reality is that NK is not industrialised and rural areas wouldn't be well lit at all. Pyongyang stands out in that regard.

Well I wouldnt call them fake either without investigating exactly what was done, but I am certainly surprised by the paucity of images

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[Deleted User]

....... wrote: »

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It would be very elaborate for an American academic to write a book on urban geography, which isn't about North Korea, and to randomly photoshop one image of Asia so that North Korea is lit up at night.

It's far more likely that there are currently power outages at night time in North Korea, which did not previously exist.

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ohnonotgmail

Ursus Horribilis wrote: »

So what about Otto Warmbier who got a hefty sentence in North Korea and returned home the other week with serious brain damage?

he stole a propaganda poster. he got off lightly.

Skylinehead

riffmongous wrote: »

Is it really thousands of satellite images though? I googled it out of interest (earth space night) and I was surprised to see how few individual image results there was, seemed like only a few source images

I searched for "Asia at night". Now considering there's little cloud, they're mostly composite images, but I wouldn't call them "fake". Maybe the poweroffs at night is an explanation, but the reality is that NK is not industrialised and rural areas wouldn't be well lit at all. Pyongyang stands out in that regard.

[Deleted User]

....... wrote: »

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Malnutrition, yes. We also have a problem with malnutrition in the west. 85% of Americans lack basic vitamins.

What led you to believe there is currently a problem with starvation in North Korea? Genuine question.

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Ursus Horribilis

So what about Otto Warmbier who got a hefty sentence in North Korea and returned home the other week with serious brain damage?

[Deleted User]

Skylinehead wrote: »

I wouldn't believe absolutely everything, especially some of the more outlandish ones (claiming they won the World Cup, that wasn't real) - but you're taking it too far the other way, insisting that thousands of satellite images are fake in favour of one dubious source.

No, those pictures do not represent the reality of electricity infrastructure. I refuse to believe that an author of a book on urban geography just created a fake image of Asia at night, in a book that wasn't about North Korea.

I do think there's a very strong possibility that there are power outages at night time (nowadays), which as many travellers will know, is quite common in many countries across the world, especially South America and Africa.

It isn't the case that there is no electricity in most of North Korea. That much is simply a myth and yes, fake.

I think it's also been done to death here, in fairness.

[Deleted User]

Skylinehead wrote: »

I wouldn't believe absolutely everything, especially some of the more outlandish ones (claiming they won the World Cup, that wasn't real) - but you're taking it too far the other way, insisting that thousands of satellite images are fake in favour of one dubious source.

Is it really thousands of satellite images though? I googled it out of interest (earth space night) and I was surprised to see how few individual image results there was, seemed like only a few source images.

I guess they could be individual shots at exact some location, but there must so some editing to account for weather on a image covering such large areas

Skylinehead

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

I knew, when I started the thread, that people would fail to read what I was saying. Am I a fan of North Korea? Do I want to live there?

The question I am asking is simply whether you believe everything you read about North Korea?

Do people not challenge any of this in their heads? Do they not seek out alternative narratives, and then make up their minds?

Why is it that when anything is questioned, people assume you're some goose-stepping apologist of the regime? We are all intelligent people, we can chew gum and walk straight; we can question media bias without completely jumping the fence and declaring war on capitalism.

I wouldn't believe absolutely everything, especially some of the more outlandish ones (claiming they won the World Cup, that wasn't real) - but you're taking it too far the other way, insisting that thousands of satellite images are fake in favour of one dubious source.

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Ipso

Sean Spicer called, he needs grinds in turd polishing.

[Deleted User]

Ipso wrote: »

Their Body Mass Index levels are also a positive thing.

I don't know what the average BMI is in North Korea. I imagine it's on the smaller side, given the famine they had after the collapse of the Soviet Union.

I'm not sure to what extent things have improved, but I doubt there is literally starvation happening today in North Korea.

We have our own nutritional crisis in this country, of course, as many western countries have. 1 in 4 children here are overweight/ obese.

ohnonotgmail

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

I knew, when I started the thread, that people would fail to read what I was saying. Am I a fan of North Korea? Do I want to live there?

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

I'm not an apologist for North Korea, I wouldn't like to live there, I have no doubt it's dismal.

The question I am asking is simply whether you believe everything you read about North Korea?

Do people not challenge any of this in their heads? Do they not seek out alternative narratives, and then make up their minds?

no we are all sheeple who believe everything we read in the MSM. i think the question is an insult to the other posters on here.

[Deleted User]

....... wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I knew, when I started the thread, that people would fail to read what I was saying. Am I a fan of North Korea? Do I want to live there?

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

I'm not an apologist for North Korea, I wouldn't like to live there, I have no doubt it's dismal.

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

I'm not saying North Korea is some utopia

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

I can't emphasise enough that I wouldn't like to live under North Korea

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Again, I would hate to live there, I do think it's a messed up country, but I at least try to think critically about media bias and credibility of some of the more outlandish claims made in our media.

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

I have the fingers worn off myself typing and retyping that I *I am not a fan of North Korea*.

The question I am asking is simply whether you believe everything you read about North Korea?

Do people not challenge any of this in their heads? Do they not seek out alternative narratives, and then make up their minds?

Why is it that when anything is questioned, people assume you're some goose-stepping apologist of the regime? We are all intelligent people, we can chew gum and walk straight; we can question media bias without completely jumping the fence and declaring war on capitalism.

ohnonotgmail

Ipso wrote: »

Their Body Mass Index levels are also a positive thing.

well except for the bloke in charge.

thomil

North Korea a victim of western Propaganda? I guess the crew of the corvette Cheonan would beg to differ, given that they got torpedoed by North Korea. The same goes for the people on Greater Yeongpyeong island, which was shelled by the North, and whose waters have seen several engagements between North and South Korean naval forces. Mind you, that is just a few of the incidents. Even if, and that is a big if, the situation within the country resembles what North Koreas advocates claim, the military aggression alone is enough to treat the country as hostile.

ohnonotgmail

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

If you measure human development positively in terms of car usage, then quite frankly, I think that's incredible.

North Korea is a basket case for many reasons, but its lack of cars, and its reliance on public transport and bicycles, is obviously a positive thing.

so its a positive that the country is technologically backwards? they dont use buses and bikes for some glowing environmental reason. they use them because there is alternative. Not that they would be allowed to go anywhere even if they did have a car.

Ipso

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

If you measure human development positively in terms of car usage, then quite frankly, I think that's incredible.

North Korea is a basket case for many reasons, but its lack of cars, and its reliance on public transport and bicycles, is obviously a positive thing.

Their Body Mass Index levels are also a positive thing.