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Is North Korea a victim of western propaganda?

[Deleted User]

I'm not an apologist for North Korea, I wouldn't like to live there, I have no doubt it's dismal.

But I sometimes see people liking and sharing the most ridiculous (and sometimes, clearly false) stories about North Korea, with unstinting credulity.

First of all, the country is presented as being technologically mediaeval, despite the fact that it has nuclear technology possessed by only a handful of countries on the planet.

There is also the trope of dictatorship, when in fact Kim Jon Un is neither the Head of Government nor the Head of Parliament (yes, there is a parliament in North Korea)

Kim Jong Un is only head of the military and head of the State Affairs Commission, the latter of which is also mainly to do with defence, and his role on which can be outvoted or abrogated by that Commission.

I also believe that Kim Jong Un would be a socialist icon if he had the dashing good looks of a young Che Guevara, but is instead reviled as a lunatic (but why?) despot because of his chubby appearance.

Oh and another thing, that diagram of acceptable North Korean haircuts has been widely debunked.

Western media also seem to accept without question the testimonies of those who have fled North Korea, without pausing to consider that these people are political opponents of the State, and of course they are going to present it in a bad light. Some of their claims are ludicrous, and have been retracted after being shown to be false.

I'm not saying North Korea is some utopia, but how many of you have actually thought critically about how it is portrayed, and have sought a balanced reporting on North Korean political and social life?

Have you ever considered that at least *part* of what you're swallowing may be propaganda?

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Skylinehead

What about the dozens of Japanese people abducted from villages along the coast by North Korea? They've admitted that one so don't bother with the "propaganda" excuse.

Or Korea Air 858. Lovely bunch of lads :rolleyes:

ohnonotgmail

Duffy the Vampire Slayer wrote: »

Yes, it is. People will believe anything about the place. A lot of the things we think North Koreans believe are utter nonsense- they don't think Kim Il-Sung had magic powers or that Kim Jong-Il got a hole in one on his first round of golf. A lot of this comes from the fact that almost no journalists speak Korea and therefore they couldn't verify the facts even if they wanted to.

For anyone interested in understanding what North Koreans actually think, you should read 'The Cleanest Race'.

whether they believe them or not is not the issue. this is the diet of horse**** propaganda they are fed.

spurious

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

they're not free to go where they like or talk to who they like. they are all assigned a minder from the intellgence services. almost like they have something to hide.

Have you looked at the Jaka Parker videos?
It's like travelling in Russia or China about thirty years ago with your 'guide'. The 'computer store' one is hilarious. The foreign currency store is just like the Beryoshka.
The Korean restaurants are interesting, though I don't think the pizza place understood what pizza was.

[Deleted User]

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

bizarre response. so because they dont imprison people for class reasons that is fine and dandy? that jailing people (and their families not forget) for political reasons is superior to jailing them for criminal ones?

Who on earth said it was "fine and dandy".

I have the fingers worn off myself typing and retyping that I *I am not a fan of North Korea*.

It is an authoritarian regime, with unacceptably weak social and economic freedoms, severely lacking in free speech.

I am simply pointing out that we, in the west, and particularly in the USA, imprison people on far a more arbitrary basis, where imprisonment disproportionately affects minorities and the poor.

BrokenArrows wrote: »

Actually its not.
Checkout this video from NASA which shows pictures of korea start from 33 seconds. .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dc58ZrOuck

Sorry this has been done to death. It is my understanding, based on a book on urban geography, that this is fake insofar as it doesn't represent the reality... I have said it may be that there are power outages at night-time, as happens in many countries in various stages of development.

....... wrote: »

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All pedestrians, bikes and urban transport?! Sounds like utopia for many people here in Dublin.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

not even the ones in South Korea? kinda hard to verify facts when they rarely let foreign journalists into the country and heavily chaperone those they do.

South Koreans usually aren't the ones making these absurd claims. They are more aware of what North Korea is actually like- a horrific, racist dictatorship, rather than some figure of fun.

This sums it up quite well.... http://askakorean.blogspot.com.co/2010/05/korea-in-english.html

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

whether they believe them or not is not the issue. this is the diet of horse**** propaganda they are fed.

No they're not. The examples I gave are creations of western media. Nobody in North Korea is even aware of them.

ohnonotgmail

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Who on earth said it was "fine and dandy".

I have the fingers worn off myself typing and retyping that I *I am not a fan of North Korea*.

It is an authoritarian regime, with unacceptably weak social and economic freedoms, severely lacking in free speech.

I am simply pointing out that we, in the west, and particularly in the USA, imprison people on far a more arbitrary basis, where imprisonment disproportionately affects minorities and the poor.

Sorry this has been done to death. It is my understanding, based on a book on urban geography, that this is fake insofar as it doesn't represent the reality... I have said it may be that there are power outages at night-time, as happens in many countries in various stages of development.

All pedestrians, bikes and urban transport?! Sounds like utopia for many people here in Dublin.

you are losing credibility rapidly.

Icemancometh

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

you are losing credibility rapidly.

In fairness, I think most North Koreans are amateur astronomers. They turn off all artificial light at night-time to allow for better stargazing.

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[Deleted User]

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

you are losing credibility rapidly.

If you measure human development positively in terms of car usage, then quite frankly, I think that's incredible.

North Korea is a basket case for many reasons, but its lack of cars, and its reliance on public transport and bicycles, is obviously a positive thing.

beyondajoke

To answer the OP's question, NK is a victim of Western propaganda. The US is just milking things at this stage. They are making it sound like they are about to start WW3 at any moment, but are they?

Ipso

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

If you measure human development positively in terms of car usage, then quite frankly, I think that's incredible.

North Korea is a basket case for many reasons, but its lack of cars, and its reliance on public transport and bicycles, is obviously a positive thing.

Their Body Mass Index levels are also a positive thing.

ohnonotgmail

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

If you measure human development positively in terms of car usage, then quite frankly, I think that's incredible.

North Korea is a basket case for many reasons, but its lack of cars, and its reliance on public transport and bicycles, is obviously a positive thing.

so its a positive that the country is technologically backwards? they dont use buses and bikes for some glowing environmental reason. they use them because there is alternative. Not that they would be allowed to go anywhere even if they did have a car.

thomil

North Korea a victim of western Propaganda? I guess the crew of the corvette Cheonan would beg to differ, given that they got torpedoed by North Korea. The same goes for the people on Greater Yeongpyeong island, which was shelled by the North, and whose waters have seen several engagements between North and South Korean naval forces. Mind you, that is just a few of the incidents. Even if, and that is a big if, the situation within the country resembles what North Koreas advocates claim, the military aggression alone is enough to treat the country as hostile.

ohnonotgmail

Ipso wrote: »

Their Body Mass Index levels are also a positive thing.

well except for the bloke in charge.

[Deleted User]

....... wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I knew, when I started the thread, that people would fail to read what I was saying. Am I a fan of North Korea? Do I want to live there?

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

I'm not an apologist for North Korea, I wouldn't like to live there, I have no doubt it's dismal.

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

I'm not saying North Korea is some utopia

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

I can't emphasise enough that I wouldn't like to live under North Korea

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Again, I would hate to live there, I do think it's a messed up country, but I at least try to think critically about media bias and credibility of some of the more outlandish claims made in our media.

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

I have the fingers worn off myself typing and retyping that I *I am not a fan of North Korea*.

The question I am asking is simply whether you believe everything you read about North Korea?

Do people not challenge any of this in their heads? Do they not seek out alternative narratives, and then make up their minds?

Why is it that when anything is questioned, people assume you're some goose-stepping apologist of the regime? We are all intelligent people, we can chew gum and walk straight; we can question media bias without completely jumping the fence and declaring war on capitalism.

ohnonotgmail

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

I knew, when I started the thread, that people would fail to read what I was saying. Am I a fan of North Korea? Do I want to live there?

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

I'm not an apologist for North Korea, I wouldn't like to live there, I have no doubt it's dismal.

The question I am asking is simply whether you believe everything you read about North Korea?

Do people not challenge any of this in their heads? Do they not seek out alternative narratives, and then make up their minds?

no we are all sheeple who believe everything we read in the MSM. i think the question is an insult to the other posters on here.

[Deleted User]

Ipso wrote: »

Their Body Mass Index levels are also a positive thing.

I don't know what the average BMI is in North Korea. I imagine it's on the smaller side, given the famine they had after the collapse of the Soviet Union.

I'm not sure to what extent things have improved, but I doubt there is literally starvation happening today in North Korea.

We have our own nutritional crisis in this country, of course, as many western countries have. 1 in 4 children here are overweight/ obese.

Ipso

Sean Spicer called, he needs grinds in turd polishing.

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Skylinehead

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

I knew, when I started the thread, that people would fail to read what I was saying. Am I a fan of North Korea? Do I want to live there?

The question I am asking is simply whether you believe everything you read about North Korea?

Do people not challenge any of this in their heads? Do they not seek out alternative narratives, and then make up their minds?

Why is it that when anything is questioned, people assume you're some goose-stepping apologist of the regime? We are all intelligent people, we can chew gum and walk straight; we can question media bias without completely jumping the fence and declaring war on capitalism.

I wouldn't believe absolutely everything, especially some of the more outlandish ones (claiming they won the World Cup, that wasn't real) - but you're taking it too far the other way, insisting that thousands of satellite images are fake in favour of one dubious source.

[Deleted User]

Skylinehead wrote: »

I wouldn't believe absolutely everything, especially some of the more outlandish ones (claiming they won the World Cup, that wasn't real) - but you're taking it too far the other way, insisting that thousands of satellite images are fake in favour of one dubious source.

Is it really thousands of satellite images though? I googled it out of interest (earth space night) and I was surprised to see how few individual image results there was, seemed like only a few source images.

I guess they could be individual shots at exact some location, but there must so some editing to account for weather on a image covering such large areas

[Deleted User]

Skylinehead wrote: »

I wouldn't believe absolutely everything, especially some of the more outlandish ones (claiming they won the World Cup, that wasn't real) - but you're taking it too far the other way, insisting that thousands of satellite images are fake in favour of one dubious source.

No, those pictures do not represent the reality of electricity infrastructure. I refuse to believe that an author of a book on urban geography just created a fake image of Asia at night, in a book that wasn't about North Korea.

I do think there's a very strong possibility that there are power outages at night time (nowadays), which as many travellers will know, is quite common in many countries across the world, especially South America and Africa.

It isn't the case that there is no electricity in most of North Korea. That much is simply a myth and yes, fake.

I think it's also been done to death here, in fairness.

Ursus Horribilis

So what about Otto Warmbier who got a hefty sentence in North Korea and returned home the other week with serious brain damage?

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[Deleted User]

....... wrote: »

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Malnutrition, yes. We also have a problem with malnutrition in the west. 85% of Americans lack basic vitamins.

What led you to believe there is currently a problem with starvation in North Korea? Genuine question.

Skylinehead

riffmongous wrote: »

Is it really thousands of satellite images though? I googled it out of interest (earth space night) and I was surprised to see how few individual image results there was, seemed like only a few source images

I searched for "Asia at night". Now considering there's little cloud, they're mostly composite images, but I wouldn't call them "fake". Maybe the poweroffs at night is an explanation, but the reality is that NK is not industrialised and rural areas wouldn't be well lit at all. Pyongyang stands out in that regard.

ohnonotgmail

Ursus Horribilis wrote: »

So what about Otto Warmbier who got a hefty sentence in North Korea and returned home the other week with serious brain damage?

he stole a propaganda poster. he got off lightly.

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[Deleted User]

....... wrote: »

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It would be very elaborate for an American academic to write a book on urban geography, which isn't about North Korea, and to randomly photoshop one image of Asia so that North Korea is lit up at night.

It's far more likely that there are currently power outages at night time in North Korea, which did not previously exist.