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Is North Korea a victim of western propaganda?

[Deleted User]

I'm not an apologist for North Korea, I wouldn't like to live there, I have no doubt it's dismal.

But I sometimes see people liking and sharing the most ridiculous (and sometimes, clearly false) stories about North Korea, with unstinting credulity.

First of all, the country is presented as being technologically mediaeval, despite the fact that it has nuclear technology possessed by only a handful of countries on the planet.

There is also the trope of dictatorship, when in fact Kim Jon Un is neither the Head of Government nor the Head of Parliament (yes, there is a parliament in North Korea)

Kim Jong Un is only head of the military and head of the State Affairs Commission, the latter of which is also mainly to do with defence, and his role on which can be outvoted or abrogated by that Commission.

I also believe that Kim Jong Un would be a socialist icon if he had the dashing good looks of a young Che Guevara, but is instead reviled as a lunatic (but why?) despot because of his chubby appearance.

Oh and another thing, that diagram of acceptable North Korean haircuts has been widely debunked.

Western media also seem to accept without question the testimonies of those who have fled North Korea, without pausing to consider that these people are political opponents of the State, and of course they are going to present it in a bad light. Some of their claims are ludicrous, and have been retracted after being shown to be false.

I'm not saying North Korea is some utopia, but how many of you have actually thought critically about how it is portrayed, and have sought a balanced reporting on North Korean political and social life?

Have you ever considered that at least *part* of what you're swallowing may be propaganda?

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Cina

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

I don't know. The picture my pic is from is a book about urban geography, and is not a propaganda item.

But you said the other picture is "100% fake" yet you take one from a book at face value, despite NASA and the ISS releasing multiple images of earth at night to the contrary that don't even focus specifically on NK?

ohnonotgmail

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

I don't know. The picture my pic is from is a book about urban geography, and is not a propaganda item.

so any picture that shows otherwise is either 100% fake and/or is a propaganda item?

Cina

[Deleted User]

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

you said it was 100% fake. clearly that isnt true.

Ok let me rephrase it then, it's either doctored or it's misleading, in the sense that electricity may be limited during night time hours, as it can be in many parts of the world, such as capitalist countries in South America.

My pic, which is from an urban geography book, is unlikely to have been invented by some North Korean apologist who wrote a book about urban georgraphy and inserted this one sly photo to mess with our minds... don't you think?

biko

https://twitter.com/DPRK_News is always good for a chuckle

DPRK News Service‏
Father's day is United States holiday in which jobless children purchase neckties to repay their fathers for annual years rent of basements.

Midnight donkey racing in Nampo denounced as criminal conspiracy to terrorize the people.

Persecution of United States negro jazz singer Bing Crosby ends with jury sentenced to death by hanging.

Sternly worded letter from Marshal Kim Jong-Un convinces street mimes of Wonsan to mend their ways.

[Deleted User]

Cina wrote: »

Yeah, NASA and their conspiraces.

You don't actually believe they went to the moon do you?

ohnonotgmail

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Ok let me rephrase it then, it's either doctored or it's misleading, in the sense that electricity may be limited during night time hours, as it can be in many parts of the world, such as capitalist countries in South America.

My pic, which is from an urban geography book, is unlikely to have been invented by some North Korean apologist who wrote a book about urban georgraphy and inserted this one sly photo to mess with our minds... don't you think?

so all the pics that have been taken at night of north korea showing the lights off are misleading but your one pic is the gods honest truth of the matter?

VinLieger

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Ok let me rephrase it then, it's either doctored or it's misleading, in the sense that electricity may be limited during night time hours, as it can be in many parts of the world, such as capitalist countries in South America.

My pic, which is from an urban geography book, is unlikely to have been invented by some North Korean apologist who wrote a book about urban georgraphy and inserted this one sly photo to mess with our minds... don't you think?

Why is your book the only acceptable source compared to the hundreds of different online images? Is every single one doctored and propoganda? Bit of a conspiracy reach there if that's what you are saying.

Are you able to find one single other image beyond that book to backup your claim?

Skylinehead

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

I don't know. The picture my pic is from is a book about urban geography, and is not a propaganda item.

The google results aren't propaganda either - most of the photos aren't aimed at NK, it's just visible in them. Unless literally every picture a satellite takes removes light from the place, which I would call a conspiracy theory.

LeinsterDub

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

I don't know. The picture my pic is from is a book about urban geography, and is not a propaganda item.

When is your image from? China looks very dark and NK too bright by modern standards. NK has regressed and China has progressed . I'd hazard a guess that it's from the 60's or 70's?

[Deleted User]

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

so all the pics that have been taken at night of north korea showing the lights off are misleading but your one pic is the gods honest truth of the matter?

I've already explained this. It is not the reality of the situation. Other pics, such as the ones shown, show North Korea lit up at night.

Now, maybe the darkness pictures are edited, or maybe there are power outages at night, but No, I do not believe those blackened pictures are representative of reality.

Click here for more ghoulish and depraved images of human existence in North Korea

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2638213/Tourist-took-camera-inside-North-Korea-expected-really-really-sad-people-shocked-seemingly-ordinary-lives-citizens.html

they even wear socks and sandals! sad! misery!

ScumLord

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Ok let me rephrase it then, it's either doctored or it's misleading, in the sense that electricity may be limited during night time hours, as it can be in many parts of the world, such as capitalist countries in South America.

Or it could be a photo from the 1960s or some other time when Korea had a proper operational electricity network. I think N.Korea has the infrastructure just not the money to run it.

There is something a bit odd looking about the photo you posted too, it's like it's been brightened up to highlight the lights, you can see spots of lights way up into the north at a fairly high intensity which I wouldn't expect.

It also takes in a lot of the planet for a satellite. It looks more like one of those photo stitches which highlights it's a composite and if it's been doctored in one way it may well have been doctored in other ways.

That doesn't mean it was doctored for nefarious reasons, if the authors wanted to highlight dense populations at night they may well have bumped the lights to make them stand out more.

ohnonotgmail

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

I've already explained this. It is not the reality of the situation. Other pics, such as the ones shown, show North Korea lit up at night.

Now, maybe the darkness pictures are edited, or maybe there are power outages at night, but No, I do not believe those blackened pictures are representative of reality.

Click here for more ghoulish and depraved images of human existence in North Korea

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2638213/Tourist-took-camera-inside-North-Korea-expected-really-really-sad-people-shocked-seemingly-ordinary-lives-citizens.html

other pic you mean, not pics. can you point towards a pic that isnt in your book? otherwise you are saying that there is a global conspiracy to show NK is a bad light (pun intended)

Rumpy Pumpy

T-shirt icon, Che, was a fan of prison camps himself.

Cina

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

they even wear socks and sandals! sad! misery!

oh you're Donald Trump, now you believing fake news makes sense.

Zebra3

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Che visited North Korea and held it up as an example that Cuba should pursue.

I disagree with him on that, I can't emphasise enough that I wouldn't like to live under North Korea (or under Che for that matter)

CG was murdered a long time ago, not like he was praising DPRK yesterday or last week.

DPRK's economy bounced back very strongly after the US carpet bombed it in the early 50s. Their economy was very strong up until the 1970s, far stronger than the economy under the southern dictatorship.

ohnonotgmail

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

I've already explained this. It is not the reality of the situation. Other pics, such as the ones shown, show North Korea lit up at night.

Now, maybe the darkness pictures are edited, or maybe there are power outages at night, but No, I do not believe those blackened pictures are representative of reality.

Click here for more ghoulish and depraved images of human existence in North Korea

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2638213/Tourist-took-camera-inside-North-Korea-expected-really-really-sad-people-shocked-seemingly-ordinary-lives-citizens.html

they even wear socks and sandals! sad! misery!

LOL. he asked NK to do a photographic essay and you are surprised that it shows NK in a good light? funny they didnt let him take photos in prison camps.

El Weirdo

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Yeah, that image is 100% fake, for anyone who isn't aware.

Genuine satellite images of North Korea at night show that it is indistinguishable from the South.

You have been made a moderator of r/Pyonyang.

[Deleted User]

Cina wrote: »

oh you're Donald Trump

what?

Cina you're losing it. I am not Donald Trump. I made a joke about people wearing sandals with socks because it was by far the most offensive thing in all those images or North Korean life.

Trump isn't a big fan of North Korea. He swallows whole everything he is told about it. As many people do.

Again, I would hate to live there, I do think it's a messed up country, but I at least try to think critically about media bias and credibility of some of the more outlandish claims made in our media.

[Deleted User]

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

LOL. he asked NK to do a photographic essay and you are surprised that it shows NK in a good light? funny they didnt let him take photos in prison camps.

Yeah prison camps exist in North Korea. Absolutely no doubt about that.

They exist in the US too, but they just call them prisons over there.

Cina

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

what?

Cina you're losing it. I am not Donald Trump. I made a joke about people wearing sandals with socks because it was by far the most offensive thing in all those images or North Korean life.

Trump isn't a big fan of North Korea. He swallows whole everything he is told about it. As many people do.

Again, I would hate to live there, I do think it's a messed up country, but I at least try to think critically about media bias and credibility of some of the more outlandish claims made in our media.

I don't actually think you're Donald Trump, that's just how he writes on Twitter :pac:

The bolded part - thus far you've posted two insanely not credible images/articles that paint NK in a positive light. I think you're the one swallowing the (wrong) media bias.

ohnonotgmail

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Yeah, that image is 100% fake, for anyone who isn't aware.

Genuine satellite images of North Korea at night show that it is indistinguishable from the South.

still waiting for these genuine satellite images of North Korea at night. sure they must be online somewhere.

ohnonotgmail

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Yeah prison camps exist in North Korea. Absolutely no doubt about that.

They exist in the US too, but they just call them prisons over there.

as much as the us justice system is far from perfect political opponents of the president are not regularly jailed for long periods along with their entire families. if you cannot see the difference there then you have swallowed the NK koolaid.

[Deleted User]

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

as much as the us justice system is far from perfect political opponents of the president are not regularly jailed for long periods along with their entire families. if you cannot see the difference there then you have swallowed the NK koolaid.

I would suggest that a huge amount of those imprisoned across the western world are in many ways victims of their class and race.

I don't know how many North Korean political prisoners there are, probably quite a lot.

But to claim that the country which gave us the Guantanamo Bay centre doesn't have political prisoners, and to claim that it doesn't have prison camps, is beyond strange.

I would suspect, but I don't have proof of this, that imprisonment in North Korea is less arbitrary in one sense alone, that class relations are less divisive than they are in the west. It's no coincidence that most of our prison population in the west is made-up of poor men, many of whom have psychological and behavioural problems going back to childhood. That's arbitrary, it's fundamentally unequal and unfair.

BrokenArrows

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Yeah, that image is 100% fake, for anyone who isn't aware.

Genuine satellite images of North Korea at night show that it is indistinguishable from the South.

Actually its not.
Checkout this video from NASA which shows pictures of korea start from 33 seconds. .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dc58ZrOuck

ohnonotgmail

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

I would suggest that a huge amount of those imprisoned across the western world are in many ways victims of their class and race.

I don't know how many North Korean political prisoners there are, probably quite a lot.

But to claim that the country which gave us the Guantanamo Bay centre doesn't have political prisoners, and to claim that it doesn't have prison camps, is beyond strange.

I would suspect, but I don't have proof of this, that imprisonment in North Korea is less arbitrary in one sense alone, that class relations are less divisive than they are in the west.

bizarre response. so because they dont imprison people for class reasons that is fine and dandy? that jailing people (and their families not forget) for political reasons is superior to jailing them for criminal ones?

.......

This post has been deleted.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

Yes, it is. People will believe anything about the place. A lot of the things we think North Koreans believe are utter nonsense- they don't think Kim Il-Sung had magic powers or that Kim Jong-Il got a hole in one on his first round of golf. A lot of this comes from the fact that almost no journalists speak Korea and therefore they couldn't verify the facts even if they wanted to.

For anyone interested in understanding what North Koreans actually think, you should read 'The Cleanest Race'.

ohnonotgmail

Duffy the Vampire Slayer wrote: »

Yes, it is. People will believe anything about the place. A lot of the things we think North Koreans believe are utter nonsense- they don't think Kim Il-Sung had magic powers or that Kim Jong-Il got a hole in one on his first round of golf. A lot of this comes from the fact that almost no journalists speak Korea and therefore they couldn't verify the facts even if they wanted to.

For anyone interested in understanding what North Koreans actually think, you should read 'The Cleanest Race'.

not even the ones in South Korea? kinda hard to verify facts when they rarely let foreign journalists into the country and heavily chaperone those they do.

LeinsterDub

Duffy the Vampire Slayer wrote: »

For anyone interested in understanding what North Koreans actually think, you should read 'The Cleanest Race'.

Expressing what you really think in NK often leads to a bad case of death