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Removal of half day

LegacyUser

I'm looking for some advice regarding a course of action I'm considering pursuing with the team I manage.

Monthly, immediately prior to a stock take, its traditional that my team get a paid half day. This isn't a contractual entitlement, nor is it on the rota or guaranteed anywhere. It's simply a practice that has been in place for a number of years, though it's not written into any employment contracts etc.

Recently following the half day, a member of my team was guilty of what could be construed as gross misconduct (I'm not going to elaborate). I turned a blind eye on the basis that had I raised the issue, the person in question would have been sacked.

My intention now is to cancel the next half day for everyone on the basis of this guy's actions being facilitated by the half day. The option of cancelling only for him isn't possible, as I'd then have to cite a reason and go down the disciplinary route. This on the other hand isn't so much a punishment but a loss of privilege

I'm looking for advice on pursuing this course of action, and the likely long term repercussions on morale etc. While the actions of the peraon in question should not merit sacking imo, my employer would have sacked him, hence why I let it go however I need to ensure this isn't repeated.

Would appreciate opinions on the course of action I'm pursuing

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[Deleted User]

You're protecting a member of staff who is guilty of gross misconduct, while removing privileges from staff who had nothing to do with it? Are you seriously considering this? This is a terrible idea, the potential impact on the morale of the other staff is bad enough, but why are you circumventing your workplace's disciplinary rules by not reporting this person? You're risking your own position on top of everything.

micar

So, you're going to punish all because of the actions of one.

Not a good idea.

If you do this, you'll have to explain why and people on your team will go over your head and the management will find out what happened.

The_Valeyard

Bad idea.

You will become enemy no.1 very quickly.

Think back to your school days it's like a teacher punishing the entire class for the actions of one kid.

super_furry

Sounds like an awful idea. Is your intention to get the member of your team who was guilty of "gross misconduct" bullied and harassed out of the job so you don't have to deal with it yourself?

It's a primary school way of dealing with a grown-up problem.

LegacyUser

silent_spark wrote: »

You're protecting a member of staff who is guilty of gross misconduct, while removing privileges from staff who had nothing to do with it? Are you seriously considering this? This is a terrible idea, the potential impact on the morale of the other staff is bad enough, but why are you circumventing your workplace's disciplinary rules by not reporting this person? You're risking your own position on top of everything.

Without elaborating too much, taking action was pretty much out of the question. It would have made my life pretty difficult, and certainly wouldn't have been a course of action that my management would have been too happy with, irrespective of it being policy.

A can of worms really, bizarre as it sounds.

C3PO

silent_spark wrote: »

You're protecting a member of staff who is guilty of gross misconduct, while removing privileges from staff who had nothing to do with it? Are you seriously considering this? This is a terrible idea, the potential impact on the morale of the other staff is bad enough, but why are you circumventing your workplace's disciplinary rules by not reporting this person? You're risking your own position on top of everything.

As per the above - a terrible idea! Why should the other members of the team be punished for the actions of one of their peers!
However, I also think you should consider your own position! Is the guy in question aware that you know about his misconduct? If it happens again where does that leave you? "Ah but I did it before and you did nothing about it"! You could very quickly find yourself in a very difficult position! I think you either need to escalate it or ignore it!

uck51js9zml2yt

Did he break the rules in work or while on his half day?

If in work then you need to deal with him directly and not punish everyone else.
If outside of work then it's not your problem...it was on his time.

beechwood55

You can be absolutely that this will backfire on you - badly. One of team will make a complaint to managment and your handling (or mishandling) of this will cause issues for you.
And why should innocent parties be affected because you cannot manage this other individual in the appropriate manner. ?

LegacyUser

silent_spark wrote: »

You're protecting a member of staff who is guilty of gross misconduct, while removing privileges from staff who had nothing to do with it? Are you seriously considering this? This is a terrible idea, the potential impact on the morale of the other staff is bad enough, but why are you circumventing your workplace's disciplinary rules by not reporting this person? You're risking your own position on top of everything.

Taking action for the specific offence would create a huge amount of problem for me, both from my team and management. It would make life very uncomfortable and certainly wouldn't be a course that would aid morale, or my future prospects.

I agree with you that it's wrong on the face of it, but taking action for the specific issue in question would leave me without any support from either above or below. Without that, I can't run my team effectively.

LegacyUser

micar wrote: »

So, you're going to punish all because of the actions of one.

Not a good idea.

If you do this, you'll have to explain why and people on your team will go over your head and the management will find out what happened.

My managers will find out. I'll tell them and I know they'll support my decision not to go down the disciplinary route.

LegacyUser

super_furry wrote: »

Sounds like an awful idea. Is your intention to get the member of your team who was guilty of "gross misconduct" bullied and harassed out of the job so you don't have to deal with it yourself?

It's a primary school way of dealing with a grown-up problem.

My intention is demonstrate that his behaviour is unacceptable. The person is question will be getting bollocked.

I want to show that there are tangible repercussions for this sort of behaviour. I'm not sure how else this can be demonstrated

LegacyUser

For a bit more clarity, and to address other replies together:

The guy involved finished for his half day, went to a portacabin on site and got pissed. This would be a bit of a routine on the half day, has been for years, only on this occasion the person in question caused a scene when leaving

My management are aware of the practice and happy to turn a blind eye

While I obviously noticed the scene, if I'm ever questioned on why I didn't act, I'll claim I didn't know he was drunk and hence only warmed him about his conduct.

Had I acted, the person in question would have been sacked. Instead, he'll be warned this time, and I will go down the disciplinary route next time.

My predecessors turned a blind eye to this sort of thing. I've recently moved to this dept from another and want to put a stop to it. I accept the disciplinary route straight away would have achieved this, however given that a blind eye had been turned by my predecessor, I feel a warning should first be given.

Regarding removal of the half day, given the number of replies saying how bad an idea it is, perhaps it is misjudged. Certainly I'll give it more thought

toadfly

No matter what happened, punishing the whole team for one idiot is a ridiculous idea. Give him a written warning without dismissal?

This is a crazy idea

Kirk Van Houten

Punish him. Give him the worst or menial jobs, or do the right thing and stop boozing on site for your team. Would love to know what job/industry allows a paid half day for boozing on site.

LegacyUser

If I make it official, he gets sacked. It's not an breach that I can give an official warning for

Stheno

Take away his half day for three months

LegacyUser

Kirk Van Houten wrote: »

Punish him. Give him the worst or menial jobs, or do the right thing and stop boozing on site for your team. Would love to know what job/industry allows a paid half day for boozing on site.

Singling him for the worst jobs could lead to the accusation of bullying, hence I won't be doing that.

I'm thinking now that just a bollockin lg for him, and a reminder to all about the policy is the best route to take. Certainly I intend on making everyone aware that future breaches will be going down the disciplinary route

LegacyUser

Stheno wrote: »

Take away his half day for three months

Could possibly leave me open to accusations of bullying, as I can't justify why only his half day has been removed

Dravokivich

His problem is not your problem. Ignoring what you've got to do, makes it your problem. Sort it out properly. If he loses his job so be it.

[Deleted User]

Civil Service wrote: »

The guy involved finished for his half day, went to a portacabin on site and got pissed. This would be a bit of a routine on the half day, has been for years, only on this occasion the person in question caused a scene when leaving

My management are aware of the practice and happy to turn a blind eye.

Civil Service wrote: »

My intention now is to cancel the next half day for everyone on the basis of this guy's actions being facilitated by the half day. The option of cancelling only for him isn't possible, as I'd then have to cite a reason and go down the disciplinary route. This on the other hand isn't so much a punishment but a loss of privilege

Your company allows drinking on site, functions on traditions and common practices and turning blind eyes but to address this person's behaviour suddenly everything has to be official, what kind of place is this?

Practically speaking, withdraw this person's half-day privilege and put an end to the drinking on site but allow the other team members to have the half-day.

Apart from that, your company's policies require a helluva lot more indepth discussion.

LegacyUser

Dravokivich wrote: »

His problem is not your problem. Ignoring what you've got to do, makes it your problem. Sort it out properly. If he loses his job so be it.

I'm not ignoring the issue because I'm taking action where previously others haven't. I don't think a sacking without a prior warning in justified though and it's a course of action that would have significant repercussions, both from those above and below me.

As is, warning him now will either put an end to it or justify me going down the disciplinary route next time

Big Nasty

Deleted User wrote: »

Your company allows drinking on site, functions on traditions and common practices and turning blind eyes but to address this person's behaviour suddenly everything has to be official, what kind of place is this?

Sounds like Dail Eireann?

Mooooo

Must be Leo

gouche

Given the OP's username is Civil Service, I'm going to take a guess that this is a public body. Wouldn't be the least bit surprised.

But to answer OP, don't take everyone's privilege away because of the actions of one.
Collective punishment doesn't work and will only lead to bad feelings.

LegacyUser

Deleted User wrote: »

Your company allows drinking on site, functions on traditions and common practices and turning blind eyes but to address this person's behaviour suddenly everything has to be official, what kind of place is this?

Practically speaking, withdraw this person's half-day privilege and put an end to the drinking on site but allow the other team members to have the half-day.

Apart from that, your company's policies require a helluva lot more indepth discussion.

The company's policies are what they are unfortunately. I was looking to gauge opinion on taking away the half day, and I've certainly got that. Obviously it's misjudged.

I'm trying to drag my team into 2017 one stage at a time. I'm reasonably satisfied now that unofficially warning him about his conduct, and making it known that further breaches will result in disciplinary action is the best course of action to take

Mini850

Civil Service wrote: »

For a bit more clarity, and to address other replies together:

The guy involved finished for his half day, went to a portacabin on site and got pissed. This would be a bit of a routine on the half day, has been for years, only on this occasion the person in question caused a scene when leaving

My predecessors turned a blind eye to this sort of thing.

Are you effin serious??

If this happened where I work (pharma company) It would be instant dismissal.

LegacyUser

Mini850 wrote: »

Are you effin serious??

If this happened where I work (pharma company) It would be instant dismissal.

As would be the case in previous companies I worked for. There is an entirely different culture here however that I'm trying to change

ct5amr2ig1nfhp

Punishing the entire team due to an issue with one particular team member is wrong IMHO.

As Stheno suggested, take away his half day for X months.

Out of interest, has he/she apologised and shown regret for their behaviour?

LegacyUser

Harrison Numerous Seeker wrote: »

Punishing the entire team due to an issue with one particular team member is wrong IMHO.

As Stheno suggested, take away his half day for X months.

Out of interest, has he/she apologised and shown regret for their behaviour?

I haven't seen him yet.

Graham

Tough call OP, damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Could you give this individual the opportunity to 'volunteer' to work the next few half days in lieu of a more formal approach?