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Irish so-called "cities"

JupiterKid

So Ireland (the Republic) has 5 officially recognised cities but these are really large towns with Dublin being a mid-sized city in the global urban hierarchy.

The entire population of the country is about the same as Greater Manchester and despite people seeing Dublin as a big city, in reality it is a village at heart that is easy to navigate by walking (the city centre is pretty compact) and I'm always bumping into people I know. Compared to big cities such as London, New York and Tokyo, Dublin is small and I like it that way.

Meanwhile, Cork with a population of just over 200k would be a large town in England. Waterford, the smallest city at 50k population would hold the same population of many Dublin suburbs.

What makes a city a city? Is it facilities, amenities, population or something else - that sense of "urban?"

Do you think Dublin is a big city where people rush too much or is it just a big village at heart? There are bungalows in parts of Dublin less than 2 miles from O'Connell St.

What is your ideal size city? I don't like living in cities that are too big. Between 1 million and 5 million population is the ideal size for me.

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Your Face

Haha.

Murrisk

él statutorio wrote: »

I'd have agreed with you but surprisingly Dublin would be in the ball park.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_by_population

That's city proper populations. Dublin's city proper population is around 500,000. The lowest of the top ten there is around 1,000,000. Dublin's metro area is about 1,000,000 but, again, the metro area of the smallest of the top ten cities is around 2,000,000.

Joe_ Public

We could split the difference and agree it's a pretty big city by global standards, but not a massive one. I'd be happy with that

él statutorio

Murrisk wrote: »

That's city proper populations. Dublin's city proper population is around 500,000. The lowest of the top ten is around 1,000,000. Dublin's metro area is about 1,000,000 but, again, the metro area of the smallest of the top ten cities is around 2,000,000.

It's based on city limits. Ireland doesn't really have a similar measurement to accurately compare.

But basing it solely on the city I currently live in and comparing it to Dublin (not all that scientific I grant you) It would probably encompass a Dublin population of about 1m. Think a loop from Clontarf to Ashtown to Drimnagh and back in to Booterstown.

Murrisk

él statutorio wrote: »

It's based on city limits. Ireland doesn't really have a similar measurement to accurately compare.

But basing it solely on the city I currently live in and comparing it to Dublin (not all that scientific I grant you) It would probably encompass a Dublin population of about 1m. Think a loop from Clontarf to Ashtown to Drimnagh and back in to Booterstown.

Santa Barbara isn't top ten!

[Deleted User]

Kilkenny, an entire town of stag and hen parties. How experiencing that on a weekend would knock the romantic notions one might have of medieval Kilkenny and its cultured heritage.

A corporate borough is not a city; all towns of the Pale had corporations. Kilkenny was never a 'city' in the middle ages, although it did have a charter virtually identical to the other towns (nearly always explicitly so). It was only in the 17th century that Kilkenny was first given 'city' status.

The biggest joke of all is Newry, a 'city' since 2002. The putative "Irish nationalists" there, with their backward West Brit notions, went to the British Queen to petition her - petition her! - to make their little shíthole a city then (I was decidedly indifferent to Newry until 2002 but these wannabe Paddy notions straight from 19th-century cultural colonisation really inspire me; the 'Lord' mayors being another example - the medieval mayorial title never had 'Lord' in it in any Irish city; the Royalist cult renamed Cork's 'Mayor', established in 1273, as 'Lord Mayor' as recently as 1900). Historically uprooted plonkers far removed from their own Irish tradition. Newry and Kingstown should get a room together.

Stephen15

Theres only three real cities in Ireland and those are Dublin, Cork and Limerick four if you include Belfast. Dublin being the only fair sized city the rest are reletively small. Galway and Waterford are only large towns.

buzzinfly83

Stephen15 wrote: »

Theres only three real cities in Ireland and those are Dublin, Cork and Limerick four if you include Belfast. Dublin being the only fair sized city the rest are reletively small. Galway and Waterford are only large towns.

Waterford is the oldest city in Ireland

awec

How many times have we had this thread?

4068ac1elhodqr

Stephen15 wrote: »

Theres only three real cities in Ireland and those are Dublin, Cork and Limerick four if you include Belfast. Dublin being the only fair sized city the rest are reletively small. Galway and Waterford are only large towns.

From the ISS they'd probably say there only appears to be two major urban areas or cities (D&B) on the Island. With the rest of the lights just representing a scattering of outpost towns of one medium size (Cork) and the rest of small population sizes.

él statutorio

Murrisk wrote: »

Santa Barbara isn't top ten!

I'm not suggesting it is!

Like I said, it was my unscientific method of putting an approximate city limit on Dublin.

Mr_Muffin

Waterford and Kilkenny are really just towns. This is not a bad thing - both are extremely easy to navigate and cheaper than Dublin.

Balmed Out

Personally I think anywhere with an opera house and a magic kissing stone is a city.

osarusan

I lived in a few cities in Japan that were 2 or 3 times the size of Cork, yet there was very little to do there. Just huge commuter belt cities. They were all close to bigger cities like Tokyo and Yokohama, which had all the big city stuff already.

Cork, (and even Limerick) has more to do, and more energy about them than those places, and I think it's because that some Irish cities, whatever their size, are centres of a region, whereas those bigger cities are not.

So, for the most part, they have the stuff that regional centres have, and they have the atmosphere and identity of a centre about them. Similarly, I lived for a year in Matsumoto in Japan, which is smaller than Cork, but again, it was a centre for the region, and felt like one.

Yourself isit

Murrisk wrote: »

That's city proper populations. Dublin's city proper population is around 500,000. The lowest of the top ten there is around 1,000,000. Dublin's metro area is about 1,000,000 but, again, the metro area of the smallest of the top ten cities is around 2,000,000.

As I said Metropolitan areas in the US can incorporate multiple cities (like the bay area or new York metro) or rural areas like greater Boston.

Wiki says metro Dublin is 1.3M and greater Dublin is 2M. The latter presumably includes commuting towns and counties. (Bray for instance).

In terms of footprint Dublin is far too large. For its population

AllForIt

I read somewhere and I'm not sure if it's correct, that Dublin has one of the biggest continuous urban sprawls in Europe in terms of distance, not population.

But the urban sprawl is not part of the city, it just surrounds it. The city itself is quite small and one can walk form north to south of the city in no time all all, lets say starting from Phibsborough to Donnybrook.

What makes a city a city? Is it facilities, amenities, population or something else - that sense of "urban?"

Size. The bigger it is the more diverse it is and the more exciting it is. I love cities myself and love to get to know a city by walking or cycling within it but after a few short years of living in Dublin I find it a bit boring. I don't think there is a single street in Dublin I have not trodden. Nothing much new to discover after a short while.

Do you think Dublin is a big city where people rush too much or is it just a big village at heart?

It's a small city.

What is your ideal size city?

Big, like London. For all the many years I lived there there are still many parts of it I haven't discovered.

Having said that there are parts of Dublin I really like like the area surrounding St.Stephens Green all the way down to Donnybrook and Ballsbridge where I have taken many an enjoyable stroll.

Vic_08

Joe_ Public wrote: »

We could split the difference and agree it's a pretty big city by global standards, but not a massive one. I'd be happy with that

Except that it really isn't.

Dublin is #425 on this list by population size.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_urban_areas_by_population

4068ac1elhodqr

Yourself isit wrote: »

In terms of footprint Dublin is far too large. For its population

Auckland is much larger and more or less the same population.
https://versus.com/en/auckland-vs-dublin

Dublin does need better infrastructure, wider streets and some high-rise areas, but blame the Viking lads when the arrived a few years ago.

lalabear53

Anyone that is familiar with Sligo town will know that there is numerous signs around it saying "City Core " and "City Loop" also believe that there is a sign when entering Sligo from the southern side saying "Welcome to the Gateway City"

Yourself isit

Aden Weak Landmark wrote: »

Auckland is much larger and more or less the same population.
https://versus.com/en/auckland-vs-dublin

Dublin does need better infrastructure, wider streets and some high-rise areas, but blame the Viking lads when the arrived a few years ago.

But Paris is much more compact.

That sites statistics are bollocks though. It says Dublin has a population of 550k, is not close to a mountain and has a lower wage than Paris. I doubt all of that.

Junkyard Tom

Anyone remember this lads?

4068ac1elhodqr

Yourself isit wrote: »

But Paris is much more compact.

That sites statistics are bollocks though. It says Dublin has a population of 550k, is not close to a mountain and has a lower wage than Paris. I doubt all of that.

True enough, both around the same population size, but Auckland does a have a big spread, they never have the traffic jams you'd see on the M50, plenty of houses with gardens etc.

Annasopra

Sure some of the cities in Northern Ireland are tiny.

Stephen15

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Sure some of the cities in Northern Ireland are tiny.

Belfast is the the only proper city up north

rossie1977

Luxembourg city is smaller than cork but nobody says its not a city.

I think irish people obsess too much over city and town (we have had dozens of threads like this over the years here). The Germans to my knowledge don't even have a word for 'city' as the word 'stadt' is used to describe towns and cities.

wakka12

Mutant z wrote: »

There should be at least a skyscraper or two built in Dublin to at least give it a look of being a modern major city.

Capital Dock and Tara street tower are being built

DEFTLEFTHAND

A true metropolis would be Dublin City.

The others are large towns surrounded by housing estates.

There's nothing wrong with that, we're a small nation with a relatively small population.

cournioni

Don't really get what all the fuss is about over cities. Most are over crowded, with over priced goods, over priced shoebox properties, with piss and puke everywhere, and unpleasant in general.

Give me chilled out country living any day.

Dr. Kenneth Noisewater

JupiterKid wrote: »

Cork with a population of just over 200k would be a large town in England. Waterford, the smallest city at 50k population would hold the same population of many Dublin suburbs..

I was in Northampton recently, population 212,000. Was over for 1 night for a Connacht game. Thought to myself, funnily enough, "same size as Cork, should be grand". As it turns out, the town centre was about the same size as Athlone. I had a few hours to kill and ended up going to the pub because I had explored the entire town in about half an hour.

My point is, population isn't always a good indicator of urban importance. If almost 90% of people in England or Germany live in urban settings, then it stands to reason that their towns or cities are going to have much bigger populations than ours. Ever walk around Birmingham or Manchester? In my opinion, Dublin feels more established a city than either (apart from the apparent high rise allergy).

DredFX

As a rural Irishman, anywhere that has reliable broadband and a Tesco may as well be a city in my books.