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TUS Programme

rsole1

MOD NOTE - Updated 24/02/2014
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Hi Had a letter from Social Protection inviting me to participate on a TUS Programme. I have done an internet search and there seems to be very little "chatter" about it from people who have been on it, does anyone have any experience of it? I know how much it pays and a broad idea of what type of jobs etc, but would like some first hand experience from people in the know. Sounds a bit like a CE Scheme.

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votecounts

I could be wrong but I don't think Intreo conduct the interviews and placements for TUS. In Carlow for example it is done by the Carlow County Development Partnership which are outside the town. Hope this helps

segosego89

That does seem odd that you would have to travel 40 minutes for the meeting. Have you thought about contacting your social welfare officer in the Intreo office? Although it may differ from county to county it is my understanding that Intreo officers are responsible in some ways for choosing people to be put on the scheme. You could possibly try to get in contact with your local Intreo office and ask these questions?

Also, I'm pretty sure that each county has a Tus section in the main city of those counties. So if you lived in County Waterford you would ring the Waterford City welfare office and ask them to give you a number for the Tus section (which would be based inside the actual Waterford City social welfare/Intreo branch if I'm not mistaken).

You could then use that phone number to chat to someone in the Tus section to answer your queries?

The Darkness

The Darkness wrote: »

Thanks for the response segosego89.

Yeah, I thought as much; like all the other 'activation schemes', there's nothing remotely approaching a choice about it. I really do dislike the euphemistic corporate jargon-style language too - 'writing to offer you an opportunity to apply for a position on the Tús programme; there are three lies in that excerpt alone; they're not offering me anything, they're ordering it - under threat of sanction - and I wouldn't be applying, for any such 'opportunity'; it's being imposed upon me.

Wrt what you said about people having their claim suspended for not replying to the letter; well, that rather a silly thing to do. That's an immediate 'non-engagement', to use the technical term and is only ever going to end one way.

I have no intention of not responding though, I was just curious to know a little more about what I'm dealing with and what would happen if I did decline to 'apply'.

What happened to those people you did hear about who may have done this when they were contacted, do you remember?

I had the feeling that it may have been what you described as "really just to force people into work placements to send them a message", but I was rather hoping it wasn't. If it is indeed being used in this way, and if social welfare officer's themselves are stating that they are; then, as you said, it's exploitative, and more than a tad let's be honest.

They're just being used as forced free labour which undermines everyone - all the people directly involved obviously; but also anyone who's getting paid to do these or similar jobs, as it undercuts the vale of their labour in the job marketplace also. But you'll never hear anyone in Government mention that, that's the really insidious part of these 'schemes' (which is a pretty apt name for them, the more I think about it.), is how they're used to devalue and/or replace real jobs, while also forcing those on SW to do those jobs without being paid the market rate or having any security of employment or the independence that a proper job provides..

The company that I've been referred to for interview are a 'Local Development Company' who "provide training, funding and resources to businesses and community groups"; but who seem mostly to be dealing with schemes such as this, from what I can gather on their website. They're also based about a forty minute drive away (23 miles), in a town in another county; and I don't have a car. And I also live in a, much larger, city - which seems very odd to me.

Is this normal that you would be referred to a company like this - do they handle all the placements and are just the initial contact; or is this not the usual way it's done? And I really can't understand why I'm being referred to an organisation in another county; when there should be a (larger) equivalent where I live anyway.

Also, I saw that people were talking upthread about having an advisor/support worker/supervisor who would facilitate them in getting suitable and/or useful placements and attending one to one meetings with a Tus officer's or group meetings etc; I seem to have been skipped right past all that - is that proper?

Or do I have this wrong?

And If I'm right, does anyone know how would I go about finding out and/or resolving it, if so?

Bump. Any answers that any of you could provide for my previous post, above; would be very gratefully received indeed, cheers.

The Darkness

Thanks for the response segosego89.

Yeah, I thought as much; like all the other 'activation schemes', there's nothing remotely approaching a choice about it. I really do dislike the euphemistic corporate jargon-style language too - 'writing to offer you an opportunity to apply for a position on the Tús programme; there are three lies in that excerpt alone; they're not offering me anything, they're ordering it - under threat of sanction - and I wouldn't be applying, for any such 'opportunity'; it's being imposed upon me.

Wrt what you said about people having their claim suspended for not replying to the letter; well, that rather a silly thing to do. That's an immediate 'non-engagement', to use the technical term and is only ever going to end one way.

I have no intention of not responding though, I was just curious to know a little more about what I'm dealing with and what would happen if I did decline to 'apply'.

What happened to those people you did hear about who may have done this when they were contacted, do you remember?

I had the feeling that it may have been what you described as "really just to force people into work placements to send them a message", but I was rather hoping it wasn't. If it is indeed being used in this way, and if social welfare officer's themselves are stating that they are; then, as you said, it's exploitative, and more than a tad let's be honest.

They're just being used as forced free labour which undermines everyone - all the people directly involved obviously; but also anyone who's getting paid to do these or similar jobs, as it undercuts the vale of their labour in the job marketplace also. But you'll never hear anyone in Government mention that, that's the really insidious part of these 'schemes' (which is a pretty apt name for them, the more I think about it.), is how they're used to devalue and/or replace real jobs, while also forcing those on SW to do those jobs without being paid the market rate or having any security of employment or the independence that a proper job provides..

The company that I've been referred to for interview are a 'Local Development Company' who "provide training, funding and resources to businesses and community groups"; but who seem mostly to be dealing with schemes such as this, from what I can gather on their website. They're also based about a forty minute drive away (23 miles), in a town in another county; and I don't have a car. And I also live in a, much larger, city - which seems very odd to me.

Is this normal that you would be referred to a company like this - do they handle all the placements and are just the initial contact; or is this not the usual way it's done? And I really can't understand why I'm being referred to an organisation in another county; when there should be a (larger) equivalent where I live anyway.

Also, I saw that people were talking upthread about having an advisor/support worker/supervisor who would facilitate them in getting suitable and/or useful placements and attending one to one meetings with a Tus officer's or group meetings etc; I seem to have been skipped right past all that - is that proper?

Or do I have this wrong?

And If I'm right, does anyone know how would I go about finding out and/or resolving it, if so?

segosego89

It's basically compulsory. I have friends who had their claim suspended for a week because they didn't respond to the letter. There's also a possibility of a claim being suspended for 9 weeks but I don't know anyone who that has happened to.
The letter you receive about the Tus program is presented in such a way to make it seem as if you have a choice but you actually don't.
I've never heard of someone decline to be interviewed without their claim being affected in some way but maybe I'm mistaken.

Most Tus jobs consist of working outdoors ie. groundskeeper work etc. But then there are other jobs available such as working in a Tourist office or Charity shop. The 19.5 hours could be spread over the week. For example you could work 4 hours every week day or maybe you could work 8 hours one day and 4 hours for another three days and then you'd have a day off. Something like that.

The Tus scheme could possibly lead to other work but I've even heard a social welfare officer state that these schemes are really just to force people into work placements to send them a message that they can't expect to be on the register for too long without doing anything. It is a tad bit exploitative but maybe it could benefit people who have been on the register for a long time. Minister O' Cuiv introduced the schemes during the last Fianna Fail government in 2010. I think the last Fianna Fail government introduced something called the "National Employment Action Plan" which is a law that allows those who refuse work placements on the Tus scheme to be penalized.

Gateway is a similar program to Tus but it's being winded down. I'm still not sure what the Government's plan is with Tus. Minister Varadkar was in the Dail talking about winding the schemes down but he was very vague when speaking on the topic. I'm not sure if he's winding them down over the next couple of years or so...

The Darkness

I got a letter from Intreo the other day 'offering me an opportunity to apply for a position on the Tús Programme', that I had to complete an enclosed form - with yes/no questions about previous schemes/courses/education etc - indicating that I'm 'willing to be interviewed for one of these positions' and to 'having my contact details given' to a specified company; and that the company will be in touch with me to arrange an interview.

It also states that if I 'do not wish to take part in the scheme that I should state the reasons clearly' and the usual about how my claim 'may be affected if I choose not to participate or do not return the form by the specified date'.

This is the first that I've heard from or about Tús, I've never been contacted in relation to them before or had them mention to me by Intreo or the DSP, so I'm curious as to what the situation is wrt the letter and the scheme itself. I'll read through the rest of this thread later, but just wanted to have some questions answered first if possible.

Is it compulsory? If I don't want to be interviewed or take part, will my claim definitely be sanctioned or is there some leeway?

What exactly is it and how does it work?
It says it's 'community-based employment' - what specifically is that?

It also states that it's for 19.5 hrs a week for 12 months - how does that work?

Is it a real job, or likely to lead to one; or is it just cheap/free labour like JobBridge was or a means of massaging the unemployment numbers?

And what way is it structured timewise with those hours; are they always the same or does it vary, depending on what you're doing?

I saw a few posts back that these schemes are being discontinued shortly, so would there be any point in getting involved in one now if that's happening?

It also says that they may contact me 'about other suitable activation programmes before Tús commences' and that where the form is to be signed that I should 'understand that I may be selected for other activation programmes by the department before I receive an official offer and contract for a Tús placement'; which seems a bit odd, as surely if you're doing one, you can't be doing another?

Is it generally considered to be better or worse than other programmes, such as CE or Jobpath - and could anyone with first-hand experience of those mentioned give their opinion of which they think is better?

I know these are a lot of questions, but I'm operating in complete ignorance here atm, and if I'm going to have to do this for the next 12 months, then I'd like to know an awful lot more about it.

Anyway all information will be very gratefully received - thanks in advance!

OlgaCorbett

.i wouldn't think you can transfer from tús to jobpath - you'd need to talk to the tús supervisor to confirm but these 'schemes' are separate and designed ultimately to keep the long-term unemployed off the dole while keeping welfare - i know someone who was placed on jobpath and started in september 2016 after finishing the 12mnth tús placement in may - the jobpath contractor (seetec) were good at the start with 30min sessions on interviews, cv - now it's simply one monthly meeting 30min meetings with (his third) placement officer with him showing proof of applying for jobs (and even then it's lackadaisical) - it's really up to you.

dodzy

BeerFarts wrote: »

Is it possible to be transferred to Jobpath from TUS? I'm looking for work and I'd appreciate help with it and I'm stuck in a meaningless tus position at the moment. I'd sooner be getting help towards employment.

In general we are seeing a lot of TUS finishers quickly being picked up by JP. They seem to be focussing on not letting TÚS finishers go back to JB for any real period of time. It would be different for you as you would be looking to finish early and transfer. Make your case to the TUS team leader, stating your dissatisfaction with the current situation and see if anything can be done to expedite your transition.

BeerFarts

Is it possible to be transferred to Jobpath from TUS? I'm looking for work and I'd appreciate help with it and I'm stuck in a meaningless tus position at the moment. I'd sooner be getting help towards employment.

dodzy

glaswegian wrote: »

Hi,apoligies if this has been asked before. i have been on the jobpath programme for the last 5 weeks,this morning i got a letter from SW to fill out a form for a place on a TUS programme,will i have to attend both ?
thanks.

No, while you're on job path, you cannot be referred anywhere else.

glaswegian

Hi,apoligies if this has been asked before. i have been on the jobpath programme for the last 5 weeks,this morning i got a letter from SW to fill out a form for a place on a TUS programme,will i have to attend both ?
thanks.

OlgaCorbett

dudebro wrote: »

Has anyone seen payment stopped by not accepting what they offer in the interview or is it just cut?

not sure, but you'd be very unlucky if the tús-placement officer wasn't even trying to get you a place in a job that suits your skills or at least you'd like - i'd say there are sanctions in not participating at all with tús - it's part-time on around 220 weekly with holiday leave (you retain medical card but be careful of unmarked envelopes from the h.s.e. as it's supposed to double-check-addresses but really to cut people off).

OlgaCorbett

crossmolinalad wrote: »

Not true
They are great in my opinion
Much better than been at home doing nothing
And wich employer pay s 15 euro an hour and having a medical card doing 19.5 hours a week NONE

depends where you're working and how flexible your tús-placement officer is - either way it's only for 12 months and unfortunately you're out back on the dole (and weekly cut in allowance down from upwards 220) unless they keep you on or find work in the meantime.

dudebro

Has anyone seen payment stopped by not accepting what they offer in the interview or is it just cut?

crossmolinalad

MontoAddict wrote: »

Most of these schemes are no better than doing nothing. Totally worthless.

Not true
They are great in my opinion
Much better than been at home doing nothing
And wich employer pay s 15 euro an hour and having a medical card doing 19.5 hours a week NONE

infogiver

dudebro wrote: »

Just got the letter, looks like it will be a "few weeks" until interview. How long on average do you suppose it takes them to offer you a placement after the interview? Say if you are in Dublin with moderate IT skills but not much else.

Hoping to find a real job before they find something.

If you find a job then you can just leave the TUS.
Where I live, they would have a job lined up for you at the interview.

MontoAddict

misstearheus wrote: »

. It's better to be doing something!

Most of these schemes are no better than doing nothing. Totally worthless.

dudebro

Just got the letter, looks like it will be a "few weeks" until interview. How long on average do you suppose it takes them to offer you a placement after the interview? Say if you are in Dublin with moderate IT skills but not much else.

Hoping to find a real job before they find something.

crossmolinalad

misstearheus wrote: »

Wow! 6 years on CE Scheme?!? Why would the plan be that you'll be on it for six years, should they not be more focusing on that you'll be in fully-paid Employment in six years?!? Are they not supposed to be winding down the Schemes though?!? That sounds like a head-wrecker, - engaging with Officers for the next six years! :eek::eek: I'm pretty-much all for them anyway. It's better to be doing something!

There are maximum time limits for Community Employment participation - 3 years for people aged under 55 and 6 years for people aged 55 or over.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/unemployment_and_redundancy/employment_support_schemes/community_employment_scheme.html

misstearheus

crossmolinalad wrote: »

A CE scheme

TUS is for one year and after that you have to go
Ce is at first for one year with the possibility ( if both parties want to ) extend it for another year or more

You can go for TUS first with a chance to move afterwards to CE but from CE to TUS is not possible
I'm almost finished on TUS and already asked for a CE scheme with the option to go on with it for 6 years

Wow! 6 years on CE Scheme?!? Why would the plan be that you'll be on it for six years, should they not be more focusing on that you'll be in fully-paid Employment in six years?!? Are they not supposed to be winding down the Schemes though?!? That sounds like a head-wrecker, - engaging with Officers for the next six years! :eek::eek: I'm pretty-much all for them anyway. It's better to be doing something!

MFlack2012

infogiver wrote: »

Your colleague proved to be sufficiently satisfactory so the empoyer decided to offer her a full time job.
This is actually one of possible the objectives of TUS.
Unfortunately you can't be on Seetec and go to TUS at the same time.
TUS are hoping you will get a full time job from this placement.
If you don't you will be transferred to Seetec when the TUS is over.

No sorry, I meant the Tus advisor offered her another job while on the placement.

Yes, unfortunately we were told different while on the placement. Completely different story to what we were told before we started.

infogiver

MFlack2012 wrote: »

I was under the impression they help find work. What do you do after your placement? The girl I work with, was offered work by her advisor two days into the placement, which she turned down!

Can you be on Seetec etc and Tus?

Your colleague proved to be sufficiently satisfactory so the empoyer decided to offer her a full time job.
This is actually one of possible the objectives of TUS.
Unfortunately you can't be on Seetec and go to TUS at the same time.
TUS are hoping you will get a full time job from this placement.
If you don't you will be transferred to Seetec when the TUS is over.

MFlack2012

infogiver wrote: »

No that's not what TUS do at all.
Turas Nua/Seetec do that.

I was under the impression they help find work. What do you do after your placement? The girl I work with, was offered work by her advisor two days into the placement, which she turned down!

Can you be on Seetec etc and Tus?

infogiver

MFlack2012 wrote: »

Unfortunately MABS is only to discuss how to spread your payments etc. Doesn't suit my needs. I know how to stretch my money, but don't have enough of it to stretch as far as it needs to. After my bills, I've less than €10 per week for necessities.

Can you explain, are TUS supposed to actually be helping to find and place you in suitable jobs while on the programme? I mean surely, they're supposed to at least help you find part time work while on your placement.

No that's not what TUS do at all.
Turas Nua/Seetec do that.
If you don't pay rent or mortgage and you only have €10 left from your €215.50 to pay for "essentials" then you have serious money management issues and actually do need MABS.

MFlack2012

infogiver wrote: »

MABS will help you to organise your debts into a manageable amount every week. Contact them tomorrow.

Unfortunately MABS is only to discuss how to spread your payments etc. Doesn't suit my needs. I know how to stretch my money, but don't have enough of it to stretch as far as it needs to. After my bills, I've less than €10 per week for necessities.

Can you explain, are TUS supposed to actually be helping to find and place you in suitable jobs while on the programme? I mean surely, they're supposed to at least help you find part time work while on your placement.

infogiver

MFlack2012 wrote: »

I haven't talked to anyone yet as I've been trying to get even part time work to supplement the placement. Tax and insurance is due though in the next few weeks and pretty much screwed at that stage. I was hoping Tus could help find something well before now, but it doesn't look likely. Will have a look into MABS. Never dealt with them before.

MABS will help you to organise your debts into a manageable amount every week. Contact them tomorrow.

MFlack2012

infogiver wrote: »

If your having difficulty with bills, have you talked to MABS?

I haven't talked to anyone yet as I've been trying to get even part time work to supplement the placement. Tax and insurance is due though in the next few weeks and pretty much screwed at that stage. I was hoping Tus could help find something well before now, but it doesn't look likely. Will have a look into MABS. Never dealt with them before.

infogiver

MFlack2012 wrote: »

Thankfully, no. But I have loans outstanding from my schooling, car and other bills. By the time my bills are paid, I've very little to live on.

If your having difficulty with bills, have you talked to MABS?

MFlack2012

infogiver wrote: »

If your living on your own then you have 24.50 in excess of SWA for someone in your circumstances.
I'm sorry your finding it hard to manage.
Have you rent or mortgage?

Thankfully, no. But I have loans outstanding from my schooling, car and other bills. By the time my bills are paid, I've very little to live on.

infogiver

MFlack2012 wrote: »

€215.50, no other income, mature lady.

If your living on your own then you have 24.50 in excess of SWA for someone in your circumstances.
I'm sorry your finding it hard to manage.
Have you rent or mortgage?