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Zimbabwe hunter 'crushed to death by shot elephant'

exaisle

So there IS karma, after all.....

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-39996592

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[Deleted User]

infogiver wrote: »

He wasn't out hunting food to feed his kids.
He went hunting for "sport".
In his leisure time.
A very expensive "hobby", which involves the needless suffering and destruction of animals.
Killing for pleasure.
If he were killed out getting foods for his children then it would be sad.
But that's not what happened.

Oh and you might not agree with it.

But is it so bad that the person who does it deserves to die?

The poster said the news that this man died made him smile. It's just...bizarre to me. I know fellows who hunt, shoot game birds, foxes, rabbits, even deer. I wouldn't be punching the air if a deer turned on one of them (and they can and do).

Free-2-Flow

Deleted User wrote:

Oh and you might not agree with it.

Did you read the link I sent you?

OldNotWIse

ScumLord wrote: »

But the thing is, hunting is a skill, skills need to be practiced. If he didn't hunt regularly then he'd be no good at it and of no use to the people he works for. In the end it would also be worse for the animals because if he can't put an animal down quickly with one shot they suffer.

One thing I'd wonder about these parks is what kind of interaction do the animals and people have? Are animals feed by people? do they fend for themselves. I wonder will the animals basically learn they only have one real threat, the hunters and just attack them on sight? Elephants will remember family members being killed and may very well look for revenge.

I know these parks are necessary to fund protection work, but are they also teaching big animals like elephants and lions to attack humans fearlessly and to the death as soon as they see the humans?

How about just not shooting them in the first place.

ScumLord

OldNotWIse wrote: »

How about just not shooting them in the first place.

Because generally these are managed parks with limited space and resources. It's not really a natural environment, if numbers aren't managed it can have knock on effects like herbivores doing too much damage to fauna, or predators killing too many of the wrong type of prey.

If they just let nature take it's course it could cause an imbalance that affects more animals long term and even begins to damage the environment. As witnessed in the US with the loss of the wolf.

Africa has had human hunters in it for millions of years, if there's any place on the planet that's suited to humans hunting it's Africa, we're one of the dominant predators on that continent and have been for a very long time. As with any ecosystem you can't just remove one predator and expect everything to be hunky dory.

steddyeddy

Deleted User wrote: »

Oh and you might not agree with it.

But is it so bad that the person who does it deserves to die?

The poster said the news that this man died made him smile. It's just...bizarre to me. I know fellows who hunt, shoot game birds, foxes, rabbits, even deer. I wouldn't be punching the air if a deer turned on one of them (and they can and do).

You're basically comparing the killing of an elephant with killing any other animal. Elephants are extremely intelligent, social and emotional animals. I'm not a hunter and don't have a problem with some forms of hunting but I take it a hunter would draw the line at what animals to shoot?

For instance it was recently discovered that elephant's brains contain von Economo Neurons. These neurons, previously only thought to be found in apes and humans are responsible for complex social emotions like compassion, guilt, shame, or embarrassment, feelings that require an understanding of another person's opinion. They mourn their dead, care for their young and even display compassion towards humans on occasion.

Now I wouldn't expect everyone to know the science behind that, but if you doubt me you can look it up. Now knowing what I know, I can reason that this man was a low life to shoot an animal like this.

Let's not beat around the bush. People hunt animals primarily because they like it. It's not exactly the fact that there's an elephant missing that bothers me. What bothers me is the psychology of the person who gets pleasure from shooting one.

steddyeddy

ScumLord wrote: »

Because generally these are managed parks with limited space and resources. It's not really a natural environment, if numbers aren't managed it can have knock on effects like herbivores doing too much damage to fauna, or predators killing too many of the wrong type of prey.

If they just let nature take it's course it could cause an imbalance that affects more animals long term and even begins to damage the environment. As witnessed in the US with the loss of the wolf.

Africa has had human hunters in it for millions of years, if there's any place on the planet that's suited to humans hunting it's Africa, we're one of the dominant predators on that continent and have been for a very long time. As with any ecosystem you can't just remove one predator and expect everything to be hunky dory.

Which was caused by hunters. Now that things have returned to normal, they're campaigning to do it again.

Discodog

The excuse of selling hunting licenses to rich Americans in order to save wildlife is atrocious. It's likely steeped in corruption & merely tells the poachers that killing wildlife is fine. You can't make money from it & then condemn the poachers who are doing the same.

These "hunters" will brag about how close they got to dangerous wildlife before they killed it. They will destroy any dignity by collecting "trophies". I should have sympathy for a dead father but he got exactly what he deserved.

steddyeddy

Discodog wrote: »

The excuse of selling hunting licenses to rich Americans in order to save wildlife is atrocious. It's likely steeped in corruption & merely tells the poachers that killing wildlife is fine. You can't make money from it & them condemn the poachers who are doing the same.

These "hunters" will brag about how close they got to dangerous wildlife before they killed it. They will destroy any dignity by collecting "trophies". I should have sympathy for a dead father but he got exactly what he deserved.

It is. I used to live in Tanzania and you'd get fat Americans with bad aims trying to kill something more intelligent than they were. Money talks.

Discodog

steddyeddy wrote: »

It is. I used to live in Tanzania and you'd get fat Americans with bad aims trying to kill something more intelligent than they were. Money talks.

They even put some into cages so that the "hunter" can't miss especially if he has paid a lot & still not had a kill. It's pure blood lust.

Galwayguy35

Sad that an elephant lost it's life but at least it got him first.

Real "brave" shooting something with a high powered rifle, yes the native Africans also hunted down through the centuries but their hunts took courage getting up close to the animal they were after and they respected the animals strength as well.

pangbang

These "hunters", I'm guessing, are nothing of the sort.

I'd bet its some wealthy eejit with nothing better to do, pays a few rich administrators, a few poor locals, and is then driven from their luxury compound/hotel to within spitting distance of the "trophy."

The local guides will make a drama out of the thing, leading the gumptionless eejit around in circles for a an hour or so, then point at the animal a safe distance away and scream theatrically "dere, masa, dere um bongo lingwing!"

The eejit will shoot, probably miss the kill-shot and prolong agony, shoot a few more times, take a few triumphant pictures, and be whisked back to the compound/hotel for self-congratulatory masturbation.

A week of drinking and leisure later, the trophy has been skinned by locals, decapitated by locals, packed by locals and sent by locals back to the eejits home address.

That's not sport. Grab a rifle and head into the back of beyond by yourself and square upto nature for real sport. Or if you haven't seen it, the john woo/van damme film (forget the name) tells you all you need to know......the true sport is hunting man!

Discodog

Maybe that's a good idea. Get wealthy animal lovers to hunt hunters :pac:

Gravelly

Discodog wrote: »

Maybe that's a good idea. Get wealthy animal lovers to hunt hunters :pac:

Might catch on - one of the posters on this thread celebrating the hunters death is on another thread wanting to kill people. Funny how people's moral compass gets skewed.

Discodog

Gravelly wrote: »

Might catch on - one of the posters on this thread celebrating the hunters death is on another thread wanting to kill people. Funny how people's moral compass gets skewed.

Oh I wouldn't kill them but I would enjoy hunting them to the point of exhaustion. I could maybe just wound them, like they do to their victims. Only they would have medical care & wouldn't starve to death.

pjohnson

Discodog wrote: »

Oh I wouldn't kill them but I would enjoy hunting them to the point of exhaustion. I could maybe just wound them, like they do to their victims. Only they would have medical care & wouldn't starve to death.

The medical care and food could surely go to someone more deserving.

Gravelly

Discodog wrote: »

Gravelly wrote: »

Might catch on - one of the posters on this thread celebrating the hunters death is on another thread wanting to kill people. Funny how people's moral compass gets skewed.

Oh I wouldn't kill them but I would enjoy hunting them to the point of exhaustion. I could maybe just wound them, like they do to their victims. Only they would have medical care & wouldn't starve to death.

I think maybe you need help. That sounds like the fantasies of a sick individual.

But I'm sure you just love animals ðŸ™„

dodderangler

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Why does that matter?

Am I only allowed an opinion if I move down the country?

Do you live in the city yes or no? Simple question. You've thrown your weight around yet can't answer a simple question.

ScumLord

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Sad that an elephant lost it's life but at least it got him first.

Real "brave" shooting something with a high powered rifle, yes the native Africans also hunted down through the centuries but their hunts took courage getting up close to the animal they were after and they respected the animals strength as well.

Have you ever seen an African tribe killing an elephant? They use spears, and it's not pleasant or quick. It takes them hours to kill the animal throwing hundreds of spears at it until it eventually dies of shock or exhaustion. The oldest hunting method known to man is persistence hunting, where they follow the animal all day and then kill it just by virtue of the fact we've a better way of dissipating heat from our bodies, the animal die of heat stroke.

Have you ever seen the way a lion kills an animal? Breaks it's spine and then eats it alive.

If I was a prey animal I'd much rather be shot dead than mauled or chased until I died.

Junkyard Tom

He's wit da elefant angles in da sky now RIP hun xxxx

GhostyMcGhost

dodderangler wrote: »

You haven't a clue about nature or animals. Hunters know about them. We need to know about them. And any real hunter out there respects everything he hunts. I'm not saying what trophy hunters do is good but you clearly are too blind to see the benefits of them

Benefits? Thanks your smoking some serious stuff if you think hunting has any benefits except for the trophy walls of the "hunter"

Anyway, enough on this subject. I'm out. "Hunter" apologists rejoice, I'll be neither welcome here nor try stop you justify whatever it is you think your doing to "help" the village and the herd

I'll she'd no tears for anyone killed "hunting"....

Best of luck, but I'll be rooting for the elephant if it's all the same

archer22

I have a foreign ex military friend who is now employed in the "Rhino wars" he loves his work setting up ambushes and killing the poachers.
His one big regret is that he cannot do the same to the trophy hunters whom he despises and regards as weak despicable cowards whose only motivation is trying to prove to themselves and their friends that they are really 'hard' men with their collection of trophy heads on the walls of their den.

[Deleted User]

archer22 wrote: »

I have a foreign ex military friend who is now employed in the "Rhino wars" he loves his work setting up ambushes and killing the poachers...

You ever ask him how did he become so dehumanised to the point where he enjoys killing people, people who may have family, friends, who may be desperate. He'd have loved being in NI when they had that shoot to kill thing going, or a security guard in SA back in the 80s.

archer22

Deleted User wrote: »

You ever ask him how did he become so dehumanised to the point where he enjoys killing people, people who may have family, friends, who may be desperate. He'd have loved being in NI when they had that shoot to kill thing going, or a security guard in SA back in the 80s.

No I did not ask him how he became "dehumanised" because I do not believe he is.I know he risked his life a few years ago to save a drowning kid in a flooding event.
But if he was to start getting emotionally involved in the possible motives of the poachers, then he would not be a suitable person for the job he does.

I don't know if you know it but the Rhino situation is now desperate and only a hard ruthless attitude to poachers offers any hope of saving the creatures.Thats why many African governments have now ordered officially or unofficially a shoot to kill policy of poachers caught in the act.

And the Elephant situation is getting as desperate as the Rhino one.
And its not poverty thats driving it its Greed and nothing else.
Also the Chinese government has recently introduced the death penalty for anyone poaching or trying to poach China's last remaining wild Elephants.

Thankfully many governments are now waking up to the seriousness of the situation...and sympathy for poachers isn't going to be part of the solution to the problem

dan1895

archer22 wrote: »

Thankfully many governments are now waking up to the seriousness of the situation...and sympathy for poachers isn't going to be part of the solution to the problem

Except the UK who are looking at repealing their laws on the ivory trade.

Gravelly

archer22 wrote: »

Deleted User wrote: »

You ever ask him how did he become so dehumanised to the point where he enjoys killing people, people who may have family, friends, who may be desperate. He'd have loved being in NI when they had that shoot to kill thing going, or a security guard in SA back in the 80s.

No I did not ask him how he became "dehumanised" because I do not believe he is.I know he risked his life a few years ago to save a drowning kid in a flooding event.
But if he was to start getting emotionally involved in the possible motives of the poachers, then he would not be a suitable person for the job he does.

Is his name Jack Reacher by any chance?

Tilikum

steddyeddy wrote: »

Which was caused by hunters. Now that things have returned to normal, they're campaigning to do it again.

Was it that genius Obama took the off the delist a few yrs ago?

Since getting back on it the wolf has brought balance back to Yellowstone. The parks are thriving because of them.
In the last 100 yrs or so there's been two attacks on humans. One was in maybe 2013 or so......a guy in his sleeping bag. They later found out the wolf that did it had a twisted jaw. He was booted from his pack as he was unable to hunt. He obviously wasn't acting the way a normal wolf would. The other attack was donkey's years ago.

They 'hunt' these beautiful animals for sport. Nothing more.

Disgusting.

Canis Lupus

ScumLord wrote: »

But the thing is, hunting is a skill, skills need to be practiced. If he didn't hunt regularly then he'd be no good at it and of no use to the people he works for. In the end it would also be worse for the animals because if he can't put an animal down quickly with one shot they suffer.

One thing I'd wonder about these parks is what kind of interaction do the animals and people have? Are animals feed by people? do they fend for themselves. I wonder will the animals basically learn they only have one real threat, the hunters and just attack them on sight? Elephants will remember family members being killed and may very well look for revenge.

I know these parks are necessary to fund protection work, but are they also teaching big animals like elephants and lions to attack humans fearlessly and to the death as soon as they see the humans?

I've seen some of these hunting places. They literally put a camouflaged hut next to a water hole and just shoot the animal as it arrives. The ones I've seen on youtube are so close you could practically reach out your hand and touch them. I think even Louis did a documentary on it. I don't really see shooting an animal at point blank range requiring THAT much skill. I've never seen an elephant shot btw but I imagine it's far from an instant death depending on the shot taken.

Tilikum

ScumLord wrote: »

Have you ever seen an African tribe killing an elephant? They use spears, and it's not pleasant or quick. It takes them hours to kill the animal throwing hundreds of spears at it until it eventually dies of shock or exhaustion. The oldest hunting method known to man is persistence hunting, where they follow the animal all day and then kill it just by virtue of the fact we've a better way of dissipating heat from our bodies, the animal die of heat stroke.

Have you ever seen the way a lion kills an animal? Breaks it's spine and then eats it alive.

If I was a prey animal I'd much rather be shot dead than mauled or chased until I died.

A Lion kills be suffocation. Tribes kill elephants because they destroy their crops (the only way they can survive)

They both kill to survive.

Discodog

Gravelly wrote: »

I think maybe you need help. That sounds like the fantasies of a sick individual.

But I'm sure you just love animals ðŸ™„

Yes I must be sick because I find it appalling that anyone would want to kill an animal for fun.

Discodog

dodderangler wrote: »

Do you live in the city yes or no? Simple question. You've thrown your weight around yet can't answer a simple question.

Can the pro hunters ever get through a debate without accusing others of being townies or vegetarians ?