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The DUB Passport/Immigration Queue Thread

180567

Would anyone know if anything is being done to solve the issues at Terminal one passport control ? Extremely long queues for passengers arriving in the evenings. An hour or more seems to be the new normal now.

There seems to be a real problem with the number of inbound flights after 10 and not having enough passport control staff to cope with the numbers. For some reason Terminal two is not affected and it never takes more than five minutes to get through there. I see in T1 they are scanning the passport through a scanner machine now so I think that is what is also slowing it all down.

I'm kind of surprised Ryanair haven't been on going bonkers about this as it's really affecting their passengers rather than anyone elses. Any of their evening flights arriving later than 10 are going to be caught up in these massive queues. After being caught up in the long queues a couple of times I'd really think twice before I'd book a T1 evening arriving flight again. Regardless of the price I'd now pay the extra to go Aer Lingus through T2 just to avoid that.

We're not even into the peak summer holiday season so I don't know what it is going to be like come July or august.

I can think of a few ways to improve the system myself - separate the UK \ common travel area arriving passengers like they do at Gatwick where people show their boarding card to confirm they are traveling from the UK. Or loads more of the automatic scanner gates.

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eeguy

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

If only the scheduling of planes would be known weeks/months in advance of how many planes would arrive at x time, if only. Keystone cops again, joke of a place.

Again, they know. But they can't schedule their workforce around the intermittent arrival of airplanes.

Chris_5339762

Those biometric scanners are in the wrong place anyway. You have to join the entire main queue to get at them, because the building isn't set up to provide them a seperate queue. In my experience they always take longer in Dublin.

Noxegon

I do a Dublin to Singapore round trip every eight weeks.

The longest wait I've ever had for immigration in Singapore was fifteen minutes, and it's usually no more than five. I've not had a single trip where my bag hasn't been waiting for me on the carousel by the time I get there.

In Dublin it's wildly unpredictable; sometimes it can be five minutes but I've also waited an hour. No matter the length however there's generally an additional delay in the baggage hall before delivery starts.

Just a thought.

LXFlyer

plodder wrote: »

But, the UK seems to treat it as a true common travel area, with no restrictions. Why do we treat it differently? I think a one hour wait is completely unacceptable, though I have never experienced a delay anywhere near as long as that.

UK border force do random spot checks on arriving aircraft from Ireland. I've experienced full passport and ID checks from time to time.

The Irish government have decided that every arriving air passenger gets checked.

Different jurisdictions have different rules, whether we like it or not. I've not seen any desire to change that policy on the part of the Irish authorities.

The Rape of Lucretia

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Keystone cops again, joke of a place.

It does have that sense to it alright. Late in the evenings, there is a distinct impression, of "Jesus ! Passengers ! Where did they come from ? Crikey, we better get someone on duty here. One or two maybe. I know we have 10 lanes, but surely these people are in no hurry at this time of night, and wont mind half an hour in line. What with planes landing at this airport anyway? I never thought this was part of the job."

The Rape of Lucretia

eeguy wrote: »

Again, they know. But they can't schedule their workforce around the intermittent arrival of airplanes.

I dont buy that at all. If they are there available to work, they should be in the booths, whether passengers are passing through or not. Planes land from what 7am to 11pm ?. Thats two shifts, and easily planned with breaks etc. One full team on duty with a rota for breaks etc to average out the manning at any one time. Its pretty simple really. Its not as if they are trying to schedule staff to work for 15 mins, be off for 20, back for another 5 mins, off for 5 mins, back on for 30 mins. Just two shifts of 8 hours, like the rest of the world manages.

Avada

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

I dont buy that at all. If they are there available to work, they should be in the booths, whether passengers are passing through or not. Planes land from what 7am to 11pm ?. Thats two shifts, and easily planned with breaks etc. One full team on duty with a rota for breaks etc to average out the manning at any one time. Its pretty simple really. Its not as if they are trying to schedule staff to work for 15 mins, be off for 20, back for another 5 mins, off for 5 mins, back on for 30 mins. Just two shifts of 8 hours, like the rest of the world manages.

To clarify, Immigration are available 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, flights land outside of 7am - 11pm, lots of them.

The recent hiring of (a large amount of) new staff should help, but the Immigration hall in T1 is still way to small and badly laid out to solve the problem completely, 10 booths is not enough, even with the soon to be installed e-gates.

LXFlyer

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

I dont buy that at all. If they are there available to work, they should be in the booths, whether passengers are passing through or not. Planes land from what 7am to 11pm ?. Thats two shifts, and easily planned with breaks etc. One full team on duty with a rota for breaks etc to average out the manning at any one time. Its pretty simple really. Its not as if they are trying to schedule staff to work for 15 mins, be off for 20, back for another 5 mins, off for 5 mins, back on for 30 mins. Just two shifts of 8 hours, like the rest of the world manages.

While again, I'm not defending the waiting time - clearly something needs to be done, either in terms of the size of the immigration hall for piers 1 and 2, or in terms of immigration staffing.

But your analysis is a tad simplistic. What happens when you get several passengers that have not got the right documentation? The staff then have to take them away to interrogate them. They don't just sit in booths all day.

If you get several potentially inadmissible people, that's going to create staffing problems.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

plodder

lxflyer wrote: »

While again, I'm not defending the waiting time - clearly something needs to be done, either in terms of the size of the immigration hall for piers 1 and 2, or in terms of immigration staffing.

But your analysis is a tad simplistic. What happens when you get several passengers that have not got the right documentation? The staff then have to take them away to interrogate them. They don't just sit in booths all day.

If you get several potentially inadmissible people, that's going to create staffing problems.

What I would expect would be the front line staff continue doing the initial check, but you have a smaller number of staff who take over when people arrive without the right documentation, and if several arrive at the same time, then they just have to wait longer to be processed.

The Veteran

breathn wrote: »

Are Irish passport holders coming from EU countries into Ireland compelled to answer those questions if we have free movement?

Read the legislation - the short answer is yes.

It has to be understood that officers don't know who is coming up to them or what their nationality is etc. By the way the majority of false documents are detected in the EU queues not the non-EU queue. Also, the majority of lost or stolen documents (several per day) which is what the scanning is about are Irish documents or other EU. The EU queues are not "squeaking clean". That's before you get into any of the security element. And for the record - EU Free Movement is not absolute, a Member State has a right to deny entry is certain circumstances.

As others have said the main T1 immigration area is too small, poorly laid out and not at all well planned in terms of how passengers enter.

10 booths would mean the absolute maximum that come through in an hour is 3,000 assuming everyone is from the EU; properly documented etc. Allowing for a percentage of non EU pax; the passengers who fumble for documents etc but before any dodgy passengers and the real hourly limit is about 2,500. Tonight between 11 and 12 there will be over 3,500 scheduled to arrive. Look at the arrival times closer and you will see most will arrive in about 35-40 minutes. The arrival times are scheduled by airlines; the Terminal is planned and built by the daa; delays are caused by various factors but ultimately none of it is controlled by the people in the booths that a number want to point the finger at.

In relation to the shift roster, it was available publicly to see in a recent pubicjobs information booklet. As one poster gave a simplistic view but another offered some wisdom; there are officers on duty 24 hours a day. Again look at daa's website tonight - the only downtime will be from approx 1:40 until about 4:15. Allow for carrying out sweeps of the various areas and breaks during the dead period and the notion that there are staff twiddling their thumbs doesn't stack up.

Anyone who wants to know what the statistics are on any front should ask the immigration service directly and also daa.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

Spanish Eyes

@ The Veteran.

Understood.

But people arriving are told nothing. Just wait in line and crocodile yourself for an hour, be grand.

Not good enough. We are trying to make out we are a progressive modern country to visit and work in.

The immigration hall in T1 is just abominable. And to add insult to injury you have pink teeshirted DAA officials herding you into lines. It doesn't work. A few times I was near the top of the Q and others from my right just marched past me and were processed.

I didn't get mad, I just shrugged, but it left a bitter taste.

Stephen15

Maybe a better idea would be have an immigration booth at every arrival gate and have a staff member there as soon as a flight arrives.

plodder

So, why don't we just let flights from the UK straight in without immigration checks, as they do for flights from here?

It seems like the common travel area only works in one direction.

Spanish Eyes

plodder wrote: »

So, why don't we just let flights from the UK straight in without immigration checks, as they do for flights from here?

It seems like the common travel area only works in one direction.

I have often wondered about that myself.

Charles Babbage

eeguy wrote: »

Again, they know. But they can't schedule their workforce around the intermittent arrival of airplanes.

Of course they can, the aeroplane arrives at the same time every day.

This is a civil "service" approach to those who pay their salary, neither civil nor providing proper service and nobody held responsible.

LXFlyer

plodder wrote: »

So, why don't we just let flights from the UK straight in without immigration checks, as they do for flights from here?

It seems like the common travel area only works in one direction.

Just to correct you - I said already there are checks - UK Border Force do random spot checks on Irish arrivals. I have been on several flights from Dublin into UK airports where there has been a full check of everyone's passport or ID upon disembarkation by UK Border Force officials.

They just have a different policy. That's down to individual states surely?

As for letting people into Ireland without checks from UK flights - remember that the Common Travel Area only applies to Irish and UK born citizens - everyone else needs a passport or visa, and separate UK and Irish visas are needed except for a small number of people.

The Veteran

See the earlier posts about the Common Travel Area. It is not an international agreement and there is no shared set of rules. For a start segregating UK arrivals is not likely any time soon in Dublin. There are UK arrivals from Aer Lingus, RyanAir, CityJet, Flybe; and British Airways. Each operate into different Piers. All of there Airlines would have to agree to arrive their passengers into the same area and then agree it with the daa before discussing it with immigration and customs. Then certain passengers would have to segregated and presented to immigration.

The pink tee shirts work for daa - they readily point the finger at immigration not their employer. Trust me when I tell you passengers have regularly been stopped on the Skybridge when there was plenty of room in the hall. It has to be remembered that the "hall" was originally a link corridor that had been extended twice. Immigration halls don't make money for airports so they don't invest in them.

Stephen15

Charles Babbage wrote: »

Of course they can, the aeroplane arrives at the same time every day.

This is a civil "service" approach to those who pay their salary, neither civil nor providing proper service and nobody held responsible.

Privatise it to Group 4 or something.

Spanish Eyes

The Veteran wrote: »

The pink tee shirts work for daa - they readily point the finger at immigration not their employer. Trust me when I tell you passengers have regularly been stopped on the Skybridge when there was plenty of room in the hall. It has to be remembered that the "hall" was originally a link corridor that had been extended twice. Immigration halls don't make money for airports so they don't invest in them.

Neither do baggage carousels either. But the experience of both immigration and baggage reclaim is part and parcel of what an airport authority does for arriving passengers.

I do realise that immigration is not within the remit of DAA, but honestly the T1 hall is very very grim. And it should not be that bad. Ever. It could be more welcoming and efficient with a bit of co-operation from both sides.

I suspect that immigration and DAA do not communicate much. It's all shops and duty free and franchises for DAA. They really need to co-ordinate and make the experience as hassle free as possible for everyone.

I suspect there might be a stand off between the two. And qui bono? Well it is not the arriving passenger anyway.

You can kind of see why Michael O'Leary has no time for DAA. But I am sure I will be put right on that one.

plodder

lxflyer wrote: »

Just to correct you - I said already there are checks - UK Border Force do random spot checks on Irish arrivals. I have been on several flights from Dublin into UK airports where there has been a full check of everyone's passport or ID upon disembarkation by UK Border Force officials.

You must be unlucky. That's never happened to me.

They just have a different policy. That's down to individual states surely?

As for letting people into Ireland without checks from UK flights - remember that the Common Travel Area only applies to Irish and UK born citizens - everyone else needs a passport or visa, and separate UK and Irish visas are needed except for a small number of people.

That doesn't make any sense to me. What "The Veteran" says seems to make sense - that the airport isn't currently set up to separate UK arrivals from others.

LXFlyer

plodder wrote: »

You must be unlucky. That's never happened to me.

That doesn't make any sense to me. What "The Veteran" says seems to make sense - that the airport isn't currently set up to separate UK arrivals from others.

Well it does happen - believe me. So it's not true to say that they don't do checks.

The veteran makes the point that the CTA is not an international agreement and there is not a shared set of rules - that backs up my point that it's down to the individual states to decide how to police it.

He also makes the point that there he believes there would still be some checks - how do you check that people arriving on U.K. flights are entitled to enter the country, given that the CTA only applies to Irish & UK born citizens?

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

The Veteran

lxflyer wrote: »

Well it does happen - believe me. So it's not true to say that they don't do checks.

The veteran makes the point that the CTA is not an international agreement and there is not a shared set of rules - that backs up my point that it's down to the individual states to decide how to police it.

He also makes the point that there he believes there would still be some checks - how do you check that people arriving on U.K. flights are entitled to enter the country, given that the CTA only applies to Irish & UK born citizens?

Who said the Veteran was a 'he'?

LXFlyer

The Veteran wrote: »

Who said the Veteran was a 'he'?

Apologies - "they"!!

Avada

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Yes and no. Having a driving licence that states born in the USA does not prove to me that you are an Irish/UK citizen and would not be sufficient evidence of Nationality. Only a passport or photo id/certificate of naturalisation would be satisfactory.

The Veteran

Avada wrote: »

Yes and no. Having a driving licence that states born in the USA does not prove to me that you are an Irish/UK citizen and would not be sufficient evidence of Nationality. Only a passport or photo id/certificate of naturalisation would be satisfactory.

That is not correct.

Have a look at section 11 of the 2004 Immigration act as amended by the 2011 Civil Law Miscelleaneous Provisions Act at section 34 (or 35) in terms of who must have a passport on arrival and who may benefit from the provision not to have a passport if travelling to Ireland from the UK.

How someone proves their citizenship can take various forms. For a person born in Ireland (32 counties) prior to 1 Jan 2005; they are an Irish citizen "full stop". For anyone else it gets complicated.

plodder

lxflyer wrote: »

Well it does happen - believe me. So it's not true to say that they don't do checks.

The veteran makes the point that the CTA is not an international agreement and there is not a shared set of rules - that backs up my point that it's down to the individual states to decide how to police it.

He also makes the point that there he believes there would still be some checks - how do you check that people arriving on U.K. flights are entitled to enter the country, given that the CTA only applies to Irish & UK born citizens?

None of this answers the question as to why the UK chooses to only do spot checks, whereas we check everyone. Is it actual policy or is it just a consequence of the way the airport arrivals are configured?

The Veteran

plodder wrote: »

None of this answers the question as to why the UK chooses to only do spot checks, whereas we check everyone. Is it actual policy or is it just a consequence of the way the airport arrivals are configured?

It's as a result of two separate countries having their own laws. Entry to U.K. from Ireland is governed by the Entry from Ireland Regulations 1972 which explicitly prohibits full controls. The increasing number of "ad hoc" checks conducted by the U.K. on Irish arrivals uses security legislation to justify their imposition. Also Border Force don't have the manpower to control all Irish arrivals.