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How would Ireland cope with a '7/7' style attack?

jeanjolie

It's general knowledge that this country has virtually no preparation in the event of something like the London bombings occurring in Dublin.

So if ISIS were to decide and successfully carry out a terrorist attack on our public transportation system, what exactly would it 'look like'?

What do you think the aftermath in regards to our attitudes and the governments attitudes towards legislation would be? Would the Gardai be viewed as a serious police force compared to how we view them now?

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Grandeeod

I would assume the Army Ranger Wing would also be deployed along with the ERU.

fixXxer

topper75 wrote: »

Yeah.

But living 5 counties away as I do, I'd probably experience up to 30 seconds of mild disappointment and then carry on with what I was doing.

#extremistdubwatch

Yeah but Dublin is the capital and has the highest concentration of people and therefore the most obvious target.

#extremistshoulderchipwatch

Grandeeod

wakka12 wrote: »

There are some defences in place, I remember a year or two ago there was a military training exercise in dundrum shopping centre. Also the cost of keeping a well trained anti terror defence is not worth it here as the chances are unlikely. In other countries like france its needed and worth the cost because it seems to happen a lot and it reassures the population to some extent

We do have a well trained anti terror defense and have done since the 1960s. It was actually ramped up in the 70s because of international terrorism.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKdaBNQRo3I

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Army_Ranger_Wing

Richard Hillman

biscuithead wrote: »

3 soldiers and a few armoured cars will prevent what exactly? Nothing.

It will shorten an attack. We have already mentioned that.

Beta Ray Bill

We would not respond well on a Social or Reactive level

If it were a Gun Spree like it was in Paris
It would take a Garda a number of minutes to respond and get the response force in place to stop them.
I'd imagine they'd run out of ammo before the Garda could provide an effective response.

If it were an explosive/bomb attack, It would take the Ambulance service time to react
The hospitals are in a mess at the moment, they wouldn't react well either.

Our reaction as a nation however would go either one of two ways
1) People wouldn't care (hell of a lot of millennials out there).
2) There would be a revenge attack at a local mosque (Cause all Muslims are terrorists righ?)

We are a small country though and we don't war with anyone the way France, England, Russia and America do.
It is unlikely we'd be attacked.

BattleCorp

If I was Mr. Isis I wouldn't do a 7/7 style attack. Blowing up a few busses would generate fear in the population but life wouldn't change much. They could do much worse.

Imagine this scenario.

Mr. Isis goes into rural Ireland where there are plenty of primary schools with only one or two teachers. It'd be pretty easy to kill 20 or 30 children and the two teachers with a knife. Even easier with automatic weapons. Imagine the terror that could be caused if that happened. And to make things worse, the terrorist could easily get away. That's real terror.

How do you prepare for an attack like this? Intelligence will stop some attacks before they happen, if we are lucky but realistically we are totally unprepared for any style of terrorist attack. And lets be real about this, being prepared won't stop these attacks either.

It'll be our turn one day and all we can do is hope that it won't happen for a long time and when it does happen, it'll be small scale.

biscuithead

"It will shorten an attack"

Could you perhaps talk through how this might happen because all I can imagine is that your 3soldiers might only have any effect is if they have advance knowledge of a gun attack in their immediate vicinity. What use would they be if some guy walked onto a packed luas and set off a bomb? Seems to me that you are inventing a response and then attempting to dream up an attack to fit that response.

osarusan

biscuithead wrote: »

"It will shorten an attack"

Could you perhaps talk through how this might happen because all I can imagine is that your 3soldiers might only have any effect is if they have advance knowledge of a gun attack in their immediate vicinity. What use would they be if some guy walked onto a packed luas and set off a bomb? Seems to me that you are inventing a response and then attempting to dream up an attack to fit that response.

Not every attack (such as a bomb on the LUAS) but if you had somebody attacking pedestrians with a knife or a car, would you prefer that the police who were there/arrived first were armed with guns or not?

antodeco

Omackeral wrote: »

Imagine now it's not just Anto and Deco .

Allah Akbar

Fratton Fred

BattleCorp wrote: »

If I was Mr. Isis I wouldn't do a 7/7 style attack. Blowing up a few busses would generate fear in the population but life wouldn't change much. They could do much worse.

Imagine this scenario.

Mr. Isis goes into rural Ireland where there are plenty of primary schools with only one or two teachers. It'd be pretty easy to kill 20 or 30 children and the two teachers with a knife. Even easier with automatic weapons. Imagine the terror that could be caused if that happened. And to make things worse, the terrorist could easily get away. That's real terror.

How do you prepare for an attack like this? Intelligence will stop some attacks before they happen, if we are lucky but realistically we are totally unprepared for any style of terrorist attack. And lets be real about this, being prepared won't stop these attacks either.

It'll be our turn one day and all we can do is hope that it won't happen for a long time and when it does happen, it'll be small scale.

Better still, why not just attack the European head office of one of the world's largest companies. There's plenty to choose from.

Banjoxed

If there was a 7/7 style attack the usuals would end up protesting outside the Israeli embassy. Yay us.

Grandeeod

What are we actually talking about here?

If a terrorist attack took place in the likes of Dublin, it would be just like the UK, France, Germany etc. It would happen.

Are we talking about our security reaction? If we are, then it should be well handled, because despite the usual jokes about the Gardai and Army, the ERU and ARW have loads of guns, vehicles and more than two Garda helicopters available to them.

chocksaway

Croke park on all ireland sunday would be a prime target I'm sure

SEPT 23 1989

I'm sure the hospitals and morgues would cope very well

biscuithead

Would i prefer if the police responding were armed?

Now you're just drifting into "should the police be armed territory". Your hypothetical knife attack could happen at any time on any giv3n day or night anywhere and simply be a criminal matter. Are the 3 soldiers only to spring into action when it has been determined that your attack is in fact a terrorist attack and not some thug knifing a bloke?

gw80

Grandeeod wrote: »

What are we actually talking about here?

If a terrorist attack took place in the likes of Dublin, it would be just like the UK, France, Germany etc. It would happen.

Are we talking about our security reaction? If we are, then it should be well handled, because despite the usual jokes about the Gardai and Army, the ERU and ARW have loads of guns, vehicles and more than two Garda helicopters available to them.

I suspect you are right, there was a house fire up the road from me last summer, no one hurt, wasn't that bad a fire, so i brought the young lad up to see the fire engine, and an unmarked garda car turned up, the plain clothes detective got out but the turned back to reach into the car for something and you could see a hand gun on his hip, he obviously carries it the whole time.

Barry Badrinath

jeanjolie wrote: »

It's general knowledge that this country has virtually no preparation in the event of something like the London bombings occurring in Dublin.

Completely ignoring the fact that preparing for an event does not equate to stopping an event from happening.

Your first sentence completely undermines your statement. Just because you and largely the general public have no knowledge of security provisions, does not mean the country has no emergency planning, protocols or assets to deal with various scenarios.

There is little any countries security services can do to prevent a terror event. They come in all shapes and sizes and are largely undetectible until it is too late.

jeanjolie wrote: »

So if ISIS were to decide and successfully carry out a terrorist attack on our public transportation system, what exactly would it 'look like'?

How long is a length of string?

jeanjolie wrote: »

What do you think the aftermath in regards to our attitudes and the governments attitudes towards legislation would be? Would the Gardai be viewed as a serious police force compared to how we view them now?

I think tighter security controls, increased authority being given to state security services and more tax hikes would be on the cards if a major event occured.

There is realistically not much to stop it happening and tbh, its not really the fault of AGS or any other state service. Low capability attacks can yield large results for terror groups.

biscuithead

I agree with you about the usual jokes about the Garda. They are a fine police force. People talk about how they are useless and incompetent.

Just take one example of many. Lansdowne Road 1995. This could have been another Heysel or Hillsbourough or Charleroi or Bradford. The Garda emptied that stadium like a bathtub, keeping Combat 18 scumbags in place. A fine contingent of Dub and culchie gardai then proceeded to beat the tar out of these **** all the way to the ferries. I even witnessed gardai in their shirts, sleeves rolled up, dishing out a clubbing to the hooligans. No need for belgian or italian guns and tear gas.

Grandeeod

biscuithead wrote: »

I agree with you about the usual jokes about the Garda. They are a fine police force. People talk about how they are useless and incompetent.

Just take one example of many. Lansdowne Road 1995. This could have been another Heysel or Hillsbourough or Charleroi or Bradford. The Garda emptied that stadium like a bathtub, keeping Combat 18 scumbags in place. A fine contingent of Dub and culchie gardai then proceeded to beat the tar out of these **** all the way to the ferries. I even witnessed gardai in their shirts, sleeves rolled up, dishing out a clubbing to the hooligans. No need for belgian or italian guns and tear gas.

I was there that night and despite our shock at it happening, it was handled very well.

Ralf and Florian

steddyeddy wrote: »

I suppose how we coped with the Dublin and Monaghan bombings. The largest loss of life in a single day in the troubles. The D/M bombings were a result of collusion between security forces and terror groups. It would be hard for a group like ISIS to top that if they were working in isolation.

The government and Gardai response to the D & M bombings was a disgrace.

osarusan

biscuithead wrote: »

Would i prefer if the police responding were armed?

Now you're just drifting into "should the police be armed territory". Your hypothetical knife attack could happen at any time on any giv3n day or night anywhere and simply be a criminal matter. Are the 3 soldiers only to spring into action when it has been determined that your attack is in fact a terrorist attack and not some thug knifing a bloke?

You are avoiding the question though.

You said you wondered how armed forces would shorten an attack, and gave a scenario of a bomb attack as an example of how they wouldn't be able to shorten it.

I gave an example of scenarios (knife attack, attack with vehicle) in which I think having armed police or security forces would probably shorten an attack in comparison with unarmed forces.

Would you agree that in the scenarios I gave, it's more likely that armed police or security forces would be able to shorten an attack, or would you not agree?

bear1

osarusan wrote: »

Sure, I agree, the lack of armed police would definitely make any immediate response less effective, and mean that an attacker is less likely to be stopped (in comparison to most other countries, where police are routinely armed).

I wonder, for example, if there was an attack in the centre of Ennis, just how long it would take for any armed police to arrive. The ERU has a number of bases, the locations of which are secret. Are there any police weapons anywhere in the county?

Re your last sentence.
I'm probably wrong but I remember something about there being small arms caches in certain garda stations. Not rural ones but larger more urban ones.

bear1

Grandeeod wrote: »

What are we actually talking about here?

If a terrorist attack took place in the likes of Dublin, it would be just like the UK, France, Germany etc. It would happen.

Are we talking about our security reaction? If we are, then it should be well handled, because despite the usual jokes about the Gardai and Army, the ERU and ARW have loads of guns, vehicles and more than two Garda helicopters available to them.

Do they have more helicopters available to them? Or would this be simply a case that they could take control over the army's helicopters?

Boaty

The army fly the helicopters with the Garda livery, so in the event of an attack, other army helicopters could be used.

[Deleted User]

On the subject of 7/7, I know and have met someone that was on one of the trains that were bombed - just one carriage down. One of the only things that saved her life was a last second decision to get on a different carriage because the first was too packed.

Anyway - I would imagine we're already prepared for attacks like that, given that we have had an active terrorist organisation already acting in our country for the past few decades.

osarusan

bear1 wrote: »

Re your last sentence.
I'm probably wrong but I remember something about there being small arms caches in certain garda stations. Not rural ones but larger more urban ones.

You are probably right. Certain 'big' stations will have them, Ennis might be one.

But it's not hard to imagine parts of the country where the nearest police gun might be 20 or 30 minutes away, door to door.

[Deleted User]

osarusan wrote: »

You are probably right. Certain 'big' stations will have them, Ennis might be one.

But it's not hard to imagine parts of the country where the nearest police gun might be 20 or 30 minutes away, door to door.

Then again it would be hard to think that those part of the country would be the subject of a terrorist attack.

bear1

osarusan wrote: »

You are probably right. Certain 'big' stations will have them, Ennis might be one.

But it's not hard to imagine parts of the country where the nearest police gun might be 20 or 30 minutes away, door to door.

I believe loughrea has some as there are one or two detectives there.
Then you've ballinasloe, tuam, galway. So at least in galway guns wouldn't be an issue.
More rural places would be well ****ed but can't see a place like Clifden being attacked.

fxotoole

osarusan wrote: »

If somebody with allegiance to ISIS wants to rent/hijack/etc a car or truck and plough into a load of people, that is easily done, and there is very very little than could be done to stop it.

A few such incidents on busy shopping streets in major towns cities, or at sports venues, or outside nightclubs late at night, could bring the country to a standstill.

But they don't happen - which makes me think that the number of ISIS members/operatives in Ireland and Europe is probably dramatically overstated.

And the Special Branch are more than likely keeping tabs on the small number of jihadist operatives in Ireland

biscuithead

osarusan wrote: »

You are avoiding the question though.

You said you wondered how armed forces would shorten an attack, and gave a scenario of a bomb attack as an example of how they wouldn't be able to shorten it.

I gave an example of scenarios (knife attack, attack with vehicle) in which I think having armed police or security forces would probably shorten an attack in comparison with unarmed forces.

Would you agree that in the scenarios I gave, it's more likely that armed police or security forces would be able to shorten an attack, or would you not agree?

It's a silly question. In fact it's pointless. You have as much chance of being struck by lightning as you have of being killed in a terrorist attack. If I was to recommend that everyone stay indoors to avoid being struck by lightning and then demanded to know if you agreed or not then it would be the same type of thing.

Planting a few soldiers on O'Connell Street and have them sit their on their arses, day in, day out, month in, month out would simply be a waste of time and money. Even if a hapless and incompetent terrorist DID conduct an attack close enough for them to intervene so that he only killed one or two before they shot him his job is still done. He's still spread terror. But any terrorist with half a brain would simply say "right, few soldiers sitting in a jeep drinking tea by the Parnell monument. Idiots. I'll get my mate Abdul to distract them with a bogus hostage situation in Beshoff's while I saunter into the Olympia Theatre and spray the audience with lead, killing dozens."

And wouldn't bomb attacks be much easier and more effective than a gun or knife attack?