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Child Item

Body of Alan Hawe to be exhumed

Nekarsulm

News this morning....

http://www.anglocelt.ie/news/roundup/articles/2017/05/10/4139761-body-of-alan-hawe-being-exhumed-this-morning/

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El_Duderino 09

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Familial murder dioxide is a fairly stone cold case of a mental breakdown.

You say that we are not dealing with mental health, but then you use vague terms like "stone cold case of a mental breakdown". What exactly do you think Hawe was suffering from? Why do you think that?

I'm very confused. I said it is mental health. Where did I say it wasn't and I'll correct it.

I can't diagnose a specific mental illness the same way you can't. Familial Murder suicide is a fairly clear case if a psychotic episode. Unless he was demonstrating other psychopathic behaviour that would be consistent with murdering his family then this is a clear psychotic break.

livedadream

robbiezero wrote: »

livedadream wrote: »

so if someone is murdered in cold blood by their husband, and then their mother and sister (and some members of his family) come out and say she suffered from domestic violence, thats NOT enough for you to accept it?
jesus do you need her to come back from the dead and tell you herself?

Can you post a link to where members of his family have said it?

someone else posted a rake of links a few pages back, it ranges from red tops to the Sunday papers.

livedadream

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Hrududu wrote: »

I think they might have been put under a bit of pressure from the priest to do it

How do you know that? What difference would it make to the Priest, the church don't own the graveyard.

he was very well respected in the Church and community and it seems to me (only my opinion) that perhaps the families didnt realise how bad it was in the immediate aftermath or how deep the issues ran;autopsies, the rest of the letters etc were only released to the families a little after Christmas.
it looks like from my reading that they didnt realise how serious it was until it was too late (in terms of the burial obviously)

robbiezero

livedadream wrote: »

so if someone is murdered in cold blood by their husband, and then their mother and sister (and some members of his family) come out and say she suffered from domestic violence, thats NOT enough for you to accept it?
jesus do you need her to come back from the dead and tell you herself?

Can you post a link to where members of his family have said it?

DEFTLEFTHAND

Hrududu wrote: »

I think they might have been put under a bit of pressure from the priest to do it

How do you know that? What difference would it make to the Priest, the church don't own the graveyard.

livedadream

osarusan wrote: »

livedadream wrote: »

''In time we will work to highlight domestic violence, especially the silent type where there are no obvious warning signs, just like Clodagh?s situation''
domestic violence.... domestic abuse...
violence makes him a wife beater. or is his sister lying?

Yes, I've seen those comments. They also said something terrible was about to be revealed and that would have destroyed his reputation. I don't think the wider public ever found out what that was though - there was all sorts of speculation from gambling to paedophilia.

If that is enough for you to be confident in the term wife-beater, then fair enough. It's not definitive enough for me.

so if someone is murdered in cold blood by their husband, and then their mother and sister (and some members of his family) come out and say she suffered from domestic violence, thats NOT enough for you to accept it?
jesus do you need her to come back from the dead and tell you herself?

osarusan

livedadream wrote: »

''In time we will work to highlight domestic violence, especially the silent type where there are no obvious warning signs, just like Clodagh?s situation''
domestic violence.... domestic abuse...
violence makes him a wife beater. or is his sister lying?

Yes, I've seen those comments. They also said something terrible was about to be revealed and that would have destroyed his reputation. I don't think the wider public ever found out what that was though - there was all sorts of speculation from gambling to paedophilia.

If that is enough for you to be confident in the term wife-beater, then fair enough. It's not definitive enough for me.

Irish Guitarist

That's a really pathetic looking video. It looks like a 'journalist' is hiding behind a headstone videoing someone digging up a murdered womans grave on their mobile. What a shitty way to earn a living.

livedadream

robbiezero wrote: »

livedadream wrote: »

he hit her repeatedly with a hammer, axe and used his bare hands... you think this isnt the action of a wife beater? remember it was a closed coffin, thats how much damage he did to her....

This is your post which clearly indicates that you are talking about prior to the murders.
How do you know he was a wife beater and how do you know he was about to be outed?

to be fair i think it was pretty clearly outlined at the time that it wasnt mental health issues that he had, it was that he was a wife beater who was about to be outted so to prevent the fall from grace killed him family. its a bit unfair on people who have actual health health issues to lump this guy in with them.

her sister said:

''In time we will work to highlight domestic violence, especially the silent type where there are no obvious warning signs, just like Clodagh’s situation''
domestic violence.... domestic abuse...
violence makes him a wife beater. or is his sister lying?

osarusan

livedadream wrote: »

allegations were made, this was backed up by the victims mother and sister speaking about domestic abuse and violence and how she didnt have a voice.
they are currently fundraising for a womens refugee in the locality. You dont do that if your sister/child was in a loving supportive happy marriage.
again he hit her with a hammer stabbed her with an axe and choked her with his bare hands. is this not domestic violence?

Once again, I'm talking about the term 'wife beater'. If you are saying that it just means the horrific violence that caused her death, then fair enough, but I didn't get the impression that was what you meant. I don't think anybody would have got that impression from these words: he was a wife beater who was about to be outted.

The impression I got was that you meant he had been physically abusive to her (a wife-beater) before she died, and I haven't seen evidence for that specific claim.

livedadream

duplicate post

[Deleted User]

The most damning thing about Hawe imo is the letters. He had the foresight to write up letters that appeared to attempt to frame a self-serving narrative, and seemingly coldly murdered his wife in an exceptionally brutal way, and executed his own children brutally too. For himself, he had the comparatively humane death by hanging.

The foresight says it wasnt a spontaneous act of violence, but planned executions. The interviews with her family are telling of a man who felt he owned his family, and the terminal act was of a person disposing of his property, perhaps to protect the stellar reputation we heard so much of in the immediate aftermath.

Maybe he was ill, there's a lot to be said for the argument that nobody 'normal' picks up an axe or hammer and murders their own children. Or maybe, as people closest to him seem to think, he was a man used to getting his own way and dictated the terms of existence of his family in death as well as life.

robbiezero

livedadream wrote: »

he hit her repeatedly with a hammer, axe and used his bare hands... you think this isnt the action of a wife beater? remember it was a closed coffin, thats how much damage he did to her....

This is your post which clearly indicates that you are talking about prior to the murders.
How do you know he was a wife beater and how do you know he was about to be outed?

to be fair i think it was pretty clearly outlined at the time that it wasnt mental health issues that he had, it was that he was a wife beater who was about to be outted so to prevent the fall from grace killed him family. its a bit unfair on people who have actual health health issues to lump this guy in with them.

livedadream

osarusan wrote: »

livedadream wrote: »

he hit her repeatedly with a hammer, axe and used his bare hands... you think this isnt the action of a wife beater? remember it was a closed coffin, thats how much damage he did to her....

You know that doesn't answer my question though.

LexieOnRale wrote: »

I read an article this morning about Clodagh have have pre existing injuries on her body when she died, as well as some friends she was on a Hen with a few years who claiming he followed her to Galway and demanded to know who she was sharing a room with

Thanks, that might be useful. Do you have a link to it?

I had read about how he followed her on a Hen party alright, but never read anything definitive at all about evidence of physical abuse such as existing injuries.

allegations were made, this was backed up by the victims mother and sister speaking about domestic abuse and violence and how she didnt have a voice.
they are currently fundraising for a womens refugee in the locality. You dont do that if your sister/child was in a loving supportive happy marriage.
again he hit her with a hammer stabbed her with an axe and choked her with his bare hands. is this not domestic violence?

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

Give me a second I'll see f I can find it

osarusan

livedadream wrote: »

he hit her repeatedly with a hammer, axe and used his bare hands... you think this isnt the action of a wife beater? remember it was a closed coffin, thats how much damage he did to her....

You know that doesn't answer my question though.

LexieOnRale wrote: »

I read an article this morning about Clodagh have have pre existing injuries on her body when she died, as well as some friends she was on a Hen with a few years who claiming he followed her to Galway and demanded to know who she was sharing a room with

Thanks, that might be useful. Do you have a link to it?

I had read about how he followed her on a Hen party alright, but never read anything definitive at all about evidence of physical abuse such as existing injuries.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

I read an article this morning about Clodagh have have pre existing injuries on her body when she died, as well as some friends she was on a Hen with a few years who claiming he followed her to Galway and demanded to know who she was sharing a room with

[Deleted User]

osarusan wrote: »

Would you not agree though that the term 'wife beater' is a bit more specifically linked with physical violence though?

It would not surprise me to hear that Hawe had been guilty of it, but I don't remember ever seeing any evidence for it, and even for somebody like him, I don't think terms should be thrown about without evidence.

Oh of course, but all I saw was the poster responding to the term domestic abuse, I didn't realise specific allegations of beating were made.

If they weren't made then it probably shouldn't be said - although he did terminate the lives of his family in an incredibly violent way, so it can't be said that he wasn't violent to them. It may have been part of a pattern of violence, or may be just the terminal act in a pattern of abuse that didn't include violence until then.

livedadream

osarusan wrote: »

Candie wrote: »

Domestic abuse often includes, but is not limited to, physical violence.

Would you not agree though that the term 'wife beater' is a bit more specifically linked with physical violence though?

It would not surprise me to hear that Hawe had been guilty of it, but I don't remember ever seeing any evidence for it, and even for somebody like him, I don't think terms should be thrown about without evidence.

he hit her repeatedly with a hammer, axe and used his bare hands... you think this isnt the action of a wife beater? remember it was a closed coffin, thats how much damage he did to her....

livedadream

red tops saying one of the letters he left asked for him to be cremated and scattered and rest buried together but letter was only given to the family after the burial by AGS.
might just be honoring his wishes...

or could be total bollocks...

osarusan

Candie wrote: »

Domestic abuse often includes, but is not limited to, physical violence.

Would you not agree though that the term 'wife beater' is a bit more specifically linked with physical violence though?

It would not surprise me to hear that Hawe had been guilty of it, but I don't remember ever seeing any evidence for it, and even for somebody like him, I don't think terms should be thrown about without evidence.

PandaPoo

tayto lover wrote: »

Many victims say that emotional abuse is much worse.

As someone who suffered both, I would agree with that 100%.

Glad to see he's being removed from them.

Zubeneschamali

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Familial murder dioxide is a fairly stone cold case of a mental breakdown.

You say that we are not dealing with mental health, but then you use vague terms like "stone cold case of a mental breakdown". What exactly do you think Hawe was suffering from? Why do you think that?

tayto lover

Candie wrote: »

Domestic abuse often includes, but is not limited to, physical violence.

Many victims say that emotional abuse is much worse.

tayto lover

end of the road wrote: »

an idea which (with the greatist of respect) both families chose to go along with. the idea that somehow they were "bullied" or all else to go along with it doesn't wash with me i'm afraid. i believe it's simply people looking for something to try and rationalise why the original decisian was made because they don't agree with it and they want to blame the priest.
the original decisian was the families alone to make and they made it. we have a duty to respect it even if one disagrees with it. we have a duty to respect the decisian made to move him also, which i hope was made on the agreement of both families.

Don't agree with you on this one.
The events of today back up my argument. I think the family was coerced into burying them together and were not strong enough or confused at the time to object BUT they have seen the light since.

end of the road

Lady Spangles wrote: »

The fact that he ended up being buried alongside his victims in the first place is quite staggering, so this is long overdue.

What's less surprising (but still saddening) is that this idea was the brainchild of a priest. Has the Catholic Church any sense of decency left, I wonder?

an idea which (with the greatist of respect) both families chose to go along with. the idea that somehow they were "bullied" or all else to go along with it doesn't wash with me i'm afraid. i believe it's simply people looking for something to try and rationalise why the original decisian was made because they don't agree with it and they want to blame the priest.
the original decisian was the families alone to make and they made it. we have a duty to respect it even if one disagrees with it. we have a duty to respect the decisian made to move him also, which i hope was made on the agreement of both families.

robbiezero

Candie wrote: »

Domestic abuse often includes, but is not limited to, physical violence.

Agreed.

idnkph

murpho999 wrote:

Either way all the comments about 'rot in hell' and him being cowardly and disgusting actually show a complete misunderstanding of mental health issues which he clearly suffered from and no I'm not making excuses for him.

I think there is a difference between mental health issues and someone who was very calculated in the murder of his wife and children.
He didn't want to be outted for the domestic abusing sociopath that put his family through a horror what nobody could ever imagine.
With this type of spineless waste of air all that matters to them is what people think of him. It was always about his ego. He never cared for or loved his family. All he cared about was himself.
There is no making excuses for that kind of person because they know right from wrong.
At least now that lovely woman and her 3 amazing kids can finally rest in peace.

El_Duderino 09

Paisleigh Weak Peace wrote: »

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I never said anything about giving anyone a pass. Where is that notion even coming from?

From the things that you typed in your posts.

Not once did I say his guild is diminished or he should get a 'pass'. I did say the opposite but whatever you're having yourself.

Lollipops23

January wrote: »

His final act of abuse was to murder them all rather than have it come out that he wasn't the squeaky clean pillar of the community he was thought to be.

I'm curious as to how it was going to come out? Like had Clodagh told someone?