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Random Wrasslin' thoughts.....

gimmick

So this is a thread for your musings which do not deserve an entire thread of its own.

For example

I just watched Card Subject To Change. Horrific to think that since its been made the following has happened -

Kamala has become an amputee

Sensational Sherrie, Paul Bearer and Trent Acid are dead

Had Kevin Sullivan and Nancy stayed together one of Wrestlings darkest moments would be completely different or never would have happened.

Lacey Von Erich almost became a diva. She is also crazy hot. Pure nom.

I also mused that even while Sherri was a dispicable heel while she was on tv she may well have been my first celeb crush.

All this in one lazy evening.

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sky88

beakerjoe wrote: »

One thing Ive noticed about Randy Orton through the years is that he seems to be very highly regarded for his in ring talent by his peers. Many a wrestler seem to say they have had their best matches with him or hes their favourite guy to work with, such as Christian and Seth Rollins to name a few.

I think orton just doesnt care enough most of the time and he can half a** it a lot of the times.

i read an interview with trips and he said that that orton never realities how good he is and basically called him lazy and ive heard that from a few guys on orton.

leggo

beakerjoe wrote: »

One thing Ive noticed about Randy Orton through the years is that he seems to be very highly regarded for his in ring talent by his peers. Many a wrestler seem to say they have had their best matches with him or hes their favourite guy to work with, such as Christian and Seth Rollins to name a few.

Yeah I could absolutely see why. He's got WWE-style absolutely perfected: that 'slow it down kid' style that allows fans to process everything and be there for everything he does when needed, but then he can up tempo to match whoever he's working when needed too. Can be evil and vicious as a heel, can fire up like nobody else as a face, he does exactly what's required at all times and when is Orton ever sloppy too? But those are the things that would resonate with people in the ring with him but not fans watching who are processing it on a different level and looking for different things, myself included in that.

beakerjoe

leggo wrote: »

Yeah I could absolutely see why. He's got WWE-style absolutely perfected: that 'slow it down kid' style that allows fans to process everything and be there for everything he does when needed, but then he can up tempo to match whoever he's working when needed too. Can be evil and vicious as a heel, can fire up like nobody else as a face, he does exactly what's required at all times and when is Orton ever sloppy too? But those are the things that would resonate with people in the ring with him but not fans watching who are processing it on a different level and looking for different things, myself included in that.

Christian in particular noted that he had great chemistry, but also felt very safe in the ring with Randy and made him look a million bucks. Reminds me of how guys who always note Curt Hennig as their fav man to work with as he bumped like a boss and always took care of his opponent.

I cant recall any incident in the ring where Randy hurt his opponent. Like you say, hes never sloppy.

My first thought of Randy is that he never blew me away in the ring, but when I think about it more he has had a bunch of great matches even in teh past 4 years.

His match with AJ on SD was great tv match, one of the best on Smackdown in a long time.

I loved his match with Rollins at WM but its overshadowed by what happened later that night.

He had a fine match against Luke Harper at the chamber, even though there wasnt much heat in it.

He played a big part in making the survivor series tag match an epic match.

He also played a big part in making The Shield v Evolution matches a big deal too

And who could forget the Maina 30 main event.

ERG89

sky88 wrote:

I think orton just doesnt care enough most of the time and he can half a** it a lot of the times.

If I was in a 6 month feud with Bray Wyatt & then Jinder Mahal I'd not care either.

gerrybbadd

After over 3 years away, I might finally be able to watch Raw and Smackdown again!

beakerjoe

gerrybbadd wrote: »

After over 3 years away, I might finally be able to watch Raw and Smackdown again!

Start with SD. Raw, while has its positives, is just a chore to watch.

gerrybbadd

beakerjoe wrote: »

Start with SD. Raw, while has its positives, is just a chore to watch.

The 3 hours are murder alright - glad to have the record / FF feature for that one!

leggo

Thought more about the Orton point earlier about "why is all this true but he still doesn't resonate?"

And the answer I came up with is: as adult fans we've seen every derivation of storyline, character or match possible at this stage. We don't want to cheer the good guys and boo the bad guys. We watch now for two things: believability and innovation.

Aside from the RKOs, Orton doesn't offer innovation. He never does stuff we haven't seen him do before, he's formulaic as it gets, and that works perfectly for what WWE need him to be. In terms of believability, not much needs to be said about him being wooden on the mic. You can't bite into him the way you would a semi-shoot Miz/Triple H promo.

So somehow he ends up being one of the absolute best pure workers in the world while still not connecting. The Orton Quandry. Weird.

beakerjoe

leggo wrote: »

Thought more about the Orton point earlier about "why is all this true but he still doesn't resonate?"

And the answer I came up with is: as adult fans we've seen every derivation of storyline, character or match possible at this stage. We don't want to cheer the good guys and boo the bad guys. We watch now for two things: believability and innovation.

Aside from the RKOs, Orton doesn't offer innovation. He never does stuff we haven't seen him do before, he's formulaic as it gets, and that works perfectly for what WWE need him to be. In terms of believability, not much needs to be said about him being wooden on the mic. You can't bite into him the way you would a semi-shoot Miz/Triple H promo.

So somehow he ends up being one of the absolute best pure workers in the world while still not connecting. The Orton Quandry. Weird.

I dont think hes wooden, I believe hes just not suited to a live crowd promo wise.

Id compare him more to Jake Roberts (though not as good). Hes great at the soft spoken promo, backstage or in vignettes but he doesn't connect the same way when cutting a live crowd promo. Jake was the master of the backstage promo, he gave you a great believably in his character, but I always felt Jake wasnt suited to cutting promo to a live crowd as it was difficult for him to connect with the crowd live with the same type of promo.

Jakes slow paced, soft spoken promo style was perfect for portraying him as a believable psychological opponent. He rarely gave a shouty hi-octane promo, which was the norm at the time in WWF and it made him stand out. Orton possesses the same skills to a degree and I feel hes just not suited to the live promo.

gerrybbadd

If we got THIS Randy more often, he'd be bigger than Cena. Bigger than Hogan. Bigger than Austin. They'd be doing jump splits in the school yards. Crowds would no longer be doing the YES hand movement - instead, they would all perform jump splits

CastorTroy

So if they were to try and recreate the Punk Pipe***b, who do you think they should use? We know Miz could do it based on his Talking Smack interviews and Owens could probably do one if he wanted.

(censored myself since at work and can sometimes be strict on some things.

)

razorblunt

gerrybbadd wrote: »

If we got THIS Randy more often, he'd be bigger than Cena. Bigger than Hogan. Bigger than Austin. They'd be doing jump splits in the school yards. Crowds would no longer be doing the YES hand movement - instead, they would all perform jump splits

That is an incredibly impressive jump split.

beakerjoe

CastorTroy wrote: »

So if they were to try and recreate the Punk Pipe***b, who do you think they should use? We know Miz could do it based on his Talking Smack interviews and Owens could probably do one if he wanted.

(censored myself since at work and can sometimes be strict on some things. )

It would depend on a lot of factors to be fair and it be hard to predict.

Punks pipebomb worked because of a lot of legitimate grievances with the company and his very real chip on his shoulder.

It would have to be someone with very good promo skills, coupled with some real life beef/heat.

Cesaro would be one but he hasnt the promo skills to pull it off.

gerrybbadd

Ziggler could be the man to do it.

He should have a legit chip on his shoulder. Could talk about how he was held down, written off after his concussion, saddled with crap storylines, when he's the best in the ring, and they know it. Compare himself to HBK with regards to in ring ability.

Ziggler is great on the mic, and can show fire when needs be.

brianregan09

I think sami Zayn would be another good candidate to do it he's a very easy going Guy but I'd love to see him fired up and talking about the likes of reigns getting all the opportunities I definitely could see him finally losing his cool and going nuts on the mic and the difference with him is he has a lot of passion

beakerjoe

gerrybbadd wrote: »

Ziggler could be the man to do it.

He should have a legit chip on his shoulder. Could talk about how he was held down, written off after his concussion, saddled with crap storylines, when he's the best in the ring, and they know it. Compare himself to HBK with regards to in ring ability.

Ziggler is great on the mic, and can show fire when needs be.

Go watch his promo with Nakamura a few weeks back, you'll disagree

leggo

Yeah Ziggler reminds me of an indie guy trying, and failing, to recreate Punk's pipe bomb when he tries to do worked-shoot. He does the whole 'quiet quiet quiet LOUD LOUD LOUD' deal because he's seen it work elsewhere (Foley was awesome at this BITD) but doesn't understand why it works. So it looks like a guy cutting a promo whereas the idea behind it is to seem real and it just undermines the whole thing.

beakerjoe

leggo wrote: »

Yeah Ziggler reminds me of an indie guy trying, and failing, to recreate Punk's pipe bomb when he tries to do worked-shoot. He does the whole 'quiet quiet quiet LOUD LOUD LOUD' deal because he's seen it work elsewhere (Foley was awesome at this BITD) but doesn't understand why it works. So it looks like a guy cutting a promo whereas the idea behind it is to seem real and it just undermines the whole thing.

Exactly, Punk seemed very natural where as Ziggler really tries to imitate rather than just be himself. He tries way to hard in his promos and they dont come off as real

Ben Gadot

Angron wrote: »

I miss the Legend Killer gimmick, that was a great one.

Was never mad about it, as I didn't see what was the point of boasting over beating up old ass cripples. The two occurrences where the gimmick might have actually meant something, against Hogan and against Taker at WM, he ate losses.

I only began to take interest in Orton in his second go around with HHH.

briany

Ben Gadot wrote: »

Was never mad about it, as I didn't see what was the point of boasting over beating up old ass cripples.

Beating up people weaker than you and bragging about it is pretty textbook heel stuff. Look at how Andy Kaufman did this with his 'Intergender Champion' schtick.

Also, it makes sense in the mind of Orton because he wasn't just beating them up to prove his greatness. He was beating them up to let them know their time had passed, and that he did not feel they deserved unwavering respect for past accomplishments.

Virtanen

Brie has given birth to her and Bryan's daughter, Birdie Joe Danielson

https://twitter.com/WWE/status/862430819104772096

sky88

That kid has some wrestling lineage with parents brie and Bryan, uncle John and auntie Nikki and of course big Johnny as a grandad

Itssoeasy

Virtanen wrote: »

Brie has given birth to her and Bryan's daughter, Birdie Joe Danielson

https://twitter.com/WWE/status/862430819104772096

That kid finally got the go home signal after going long.

PTH2009

https://www.sportskeeda.com/wwe/wwe-video-watch-jeff-hardy-fall-down-in-the-middle-of-the-ring-once-again

He also fell in Dublin too, so i wonder is he doing it on purpose and is part of his gimmick ???

its funny though

briany

It used to be that when a guy moved from the IC scene to the WHC scene, they never looked back. It used to be a very clear way to mark either the king of the mid card, the next top guy or the guy who'd go on to work with the top guy. Second guy in the company, basically. It was stratified and made sense. Neither Bret, nor Shawn, nor Austin, nor Ultimate Warrior, nor The Rock, nor HHH ever went back to the IC scene after holding the world's.

Now, a guy can be world champ one week and go back to competing for or holding the IC again six months later. It's booking that really muddies the meaning of, and lessens the importance of, the belts IMO.

gerrybbadd

briany wrote: »

It used to be that when a guy moved from the IC scene to the WHC scene, they never looked back. It used to be a very clear way to mark either the king of the mid card, the next top guy or the guy who'd go on to work with the top guy. Second guy in the company, basically. It was stratified and made sense. Neither Bret, nor Shawn, nor Austin, nor Ultimate Warrior, nor The Rock, nor HHH ever went back to the IC scene after holding the world's.

Now, a guy can be world champ one week and go back to competing for or holding the IC again six months later. It's booking that really muddies the meaning of, and lessens the importance of, the belts IMO.

HHH did. Perhaps he was the first. He was IC champ as part of the 2 man power trip with Austin
However, the were trying to get all the belts in the company at the time. But he did defend the title

Kolido

Will Luger ever get inducted into the wwe hof or is there still bad feeling between them.

Lithium93_

Itssoeasy wrote: »

That kid finally got the go home signal after going long.

For some reason I read this in Stone Cold Steve Austins voice :pac:

gerrybbadd

Kolido wrote: »

Will Luger ever get inducted into the wwe hof or is there still bad feeling between them.

He's been doing a lot of interviews for WWE the past few years, so I wouldn't say there's bad blood there. He's a shoe in for HOF

Chain Smoker

Luger's main holdback is presumably that there's a pretty good chance it'd just be quite depressing. He may've even turned it down himself for that reason.