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2018 Leaf

BoatMad

Had it confirmed by Nissan Ireland , 2018 leaf will debut with 40 kWh battery !

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cros13

Deleted User wrote: »

But you're driving an engine, hell no. lol

Oh... I'm not suggesting that you drive the wheels with it... just as a range extender for HGVs.

[Deleted User]

There's plenty of LPG burned off at the refineries that could be used for trucks. Though I'd imagine it would have to be pretty compressed and I'm not sure how many HGV drivers would feel comfortable with all that !

grogi

Deleted User wrote: »

There's plenty of LPG burned off at the refineries that could be used for trucks. Though I'd imagine it would have to be pretty compressed and I'm not sure how many HGV drivers would feel comfortable with all that !

A few corrections:

a) contrary to CNG, LPG does not need to be compressed under high pressure. The LPG tanks are designed to work around 15 bar, while CNG (widely used by fleet operators like buses) is under 200 bar.

b) there isn't as much LPG produced as side product of petrol refinement as you would think (1%-4% of the crude oil mass; petrol constitutes almost 50%).

LPG is a good fuel, but provides only a few advantages over petrol (less pollutants mainly). It is however more difficult to transport, store and put into the vehicles. Combine it with the fact that there are other uses for LPG, exp. domestic - that's why it is not that popular to power automobiles.

cros13

Had a chat with someone at Nissan today.

Chademo confirmed, they looked at CCS and decided the dealers would revolt if they were asked to pay for new rapids/wanted to still serve Chademo-heavy markets/wanted to retain more commonality. They have had CCS in the lab to be ready if they have to switch for future EVs.

On the other hand, Type 1 for AC is dropped, Type 2 confirmed for the EU market. Higher AC charging speeds, 3-phase 16A or 32A might be standard/optional (not settled yet).

40kWh-class battery to start with the 60kWh following later. Better efficiency. Aiming for a solid 250km on the EPA cycle with the 40kWh pack. Range should be 40-50% above the 30kWh Leaf.

Nissan ProPilot single-lane motorway steering and adaptive cruise. Multi-lane with automatic lane changes might be coming but select markets and possibly delayed (they are having issues in testing).

New infotainment system.

Gumbo

40kw would be enough to do me for ever!
While the Leaf is not a good looker, I actually prefer it to the current crop, golf, ioniq etc

I think if you go EV, it has to stand out a bit and be a bit quirky imho.
Can't wait to see the new release.

Just to confirm, is the EPA range test the real world one that we should be expecting? Not the advertisements etc?

[Deleted User]

Yes the EPA is the real efficiency/range figure you should expect.

I average very close to the EPA test result in the Leaf and in the Ioniq on my test drive.

yes you can get more or less but the EPA test is pretty real life.

The advertisements are based on the NEDC test which is a laboratory test , designed to favour the car makers but the VW emissions scandal has highlighted the flaws that everyone already knew about but now they have to do something about it and real life emissions tests are due to come into effect next year I believe which could cause havoc for car makers.

Evd-Burner

cros13 wrote:

On the other hand, Type 1 for AC is dropped, Type 2 confirmed for the EU market. Higher AC charging speeds, 3-phase 16A or 32A might be standard/optional (not settled yet).

40kw battery with 3 phase charging would be perfect. 250km range with the ability to add 125km per hour at an SCP would be perfect. The SCP network would start to become very relevant again. Even as a backup to the fcp! EG using fast ac charger when one of the DC chargers is in use.

[Deleted User]

Even 6.6 Kw makes a big difference over 3.3 Kw.

Faster charging AC would be great, however I feel that the future is DC, you will see more 20 odd Kw DC chargers over the next few years and get much cheaper and this will replace AC.

grogi

kceire wrote: »

40kw would be enough to do me for ever!
While the Leaf is not a good looker, I actually prefer it to the current crop, golf, ioniq etc

I think if you go EV, it has to stand out a bit and be a bit quirky imho.
Can't wait to see the new release.

Just to confirm, is the EPA range test the real world one that we should be expecting? Not the advertisements etc?

Yes, the figures given by EPA are much more life-like. NEDC figures are a joke, but allow to compare cars between each other.

BoatMad

cros13 wrote: »

Had a chat with someone at Nissan today.

Chademo confirmed, they looked at CCS and decided the dealers would revolt if they were asked to pay for new rapids/wanted to still serve Chademo-heavy markets/wanted to retain more commonality. They have had CCS in the lab to be ready if they have to switch for future EVs.

On the other hand, Type 1 for AC is dropped, Type 2 confirmed for the EU market. Higher AC charging speeds, 3-phase 16A or 32A might be standard/optional (not settled yet).

40kWh-class battery to start with the 60kWh following later. Better efficiency. Aiming for a solid 250km on the EPA cycle with the 40kWh pack. Range should be 40-50% above the 30kWh Leaf.

Nissan ProPilot single-lane motorway steering and adaptive cruise. Multi-lane with automatic lane changes might be coming but select markets and possibly delayed (they are having issues in testing).

New infotainment system.

Personally a Leaf that is priced potentially greater then the Ioniq giving us a " meh " range of 250 , will just make me wait for Hyundais bigger battery Ioniq

Type 2 AC. Oh well , I'll have to rebuild my granny cable

Good to see chademo comformed from another source other then me ! , good decision for Ireland given the dominance of chademo

Soarer

BoatMad wrote: »

Personally a Leaf that is priced potentially greater then the Ioniq giving us a " meh " range of 250 , will just make me wait for Hyundais bigger battery Ioniq

What price is the bigger battery Ioniq going to be, potentially?

BoatMad

Soarer wrote: »

What price is the bigger battery Ioniq going to be, potentially?

Given the efficiencies , and the very similar pricing , a 40 kWh Ioniq is going to be a far better EV then a similar leaf. Getting 250 EPA from 40 kWh , when Ioniq are already there with circa 30 kWh is hardly ground breaking

Now a 60 kWh leaf at a small premium would have a wow factor

Of course rumours of the issues of space in the Ioniq form factor , will be interesting to see play out

grogi

BoatMad wrote: »

Given the efficiencies , and the very similar pricing , a 40 kWh Ioniq is going to be a far better EV then a similar leaf. Getting 250 EPA from 40 kWh , when Ioniq are already there with circa 30 kWh is hardly ground breaking

Now a 60 kWh leaf at a small premium would have a wow factor

Of course rumours of the issues of space in the Ioniq form factor , will be interesting to see play out

Correction - according to EPA Ioniq 28 kWh is rated 124 miles (200 km). https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=38431

If Leaf is getting 250km out of 40kWh (usable around 38kWh), it will have effectively the same efficiency as Ioniq...

Mope

grogi wrote: »

Correction - according to EPA Ioniq 28 kWh is rated 128 miles (205 km).

And that would be "driving without looking at range left" in a city scenario.
Add some highways/motorway driving above 110km/h and it's not 205km for sure

cros13

Mope wrote: »

And that would be "driving without looking at range left" in a city scenario.
Add some highways/motorway driving above 110km/h and it's not 205km for sure

EPA cycle includes motorway driving with the AC/heating on. It's very representative of real world range in Irish conditions.

BoatMad

grogi wrote: »

Correction - according to EPA Ioniq 28 kWh is rated 124 miles (200 km). https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=38431

If Leaf is getting 250km out of 40kWh (usable around 38kWh), it will have effectively the same efficiency as Ioniq...

Actually the leaf will be usable 40 kWh , actual is expected to be 42-44. I.e. The pack is the same as the Zoe

Mope

cros13 wrote: »

EPA cycle includes motorway driving with the AC/heating on. It's very representative of real world range in Irish conditions.

Yeap, in this case they are on the ball here.

By now I know that I can definitely reach any destination above 200km/h if I drive 90 or 100km/h with AC. I might be a little bit worried in last few KMs, but I'd monitor bars and GOM and adjust driving to reach it :-)

grogi

BoatMad wrote: »

Actually the leaf will be usable 40 kWh , actual is expected to be 42-44. I.e. The pack is the same as the Zoe

Ok. So a bit smaller efficiency than an Ioniq then.

BoatMad

grogi wrote: »

Ok. So a bit smaller efficiency than an Ioniq then.

Yes , I don't expect the next gen leaf to rival the CD efficiency of the Ioniq , it should improve over current leaf , but the extra weight will work against it

There is a danger that the gen 2 leaf turns out to be " meh " . I hope I'm wrong as with the mileage we're doing , we intend to trade out next year

Soarer

BoatMad wrote: »

Yes , I don't expect the next gen leaf to rival the CD efficiency of the Ioniq , it should improve over current leaf , but the extra weight will work against it

There is a danger that the gen 2 leaf turns out to be " meh " . I hope I'm wrong as with the mileage we're doing , we intend to trade out next year

That's twice in almost as many posts that you've said that. What makes you think it?

I personally think it sounds exciting. And if it looks anything like the Micra or whatever, I think it'll look great!

DrPhilG

I too am worried that the next gen leaf will be underwhelming.

All the early suggestions were that it would be a 200 mile car. That seems to now be dragged back to 150-160 with a bigger battery in the pipeline for a year later which would be a major disappointment especially since that year later could turn into far more.

BoatMad

DrPhilG wrote: »

I too am worried that the next gen leaf will be underwhelming.

All the early suggestions were that it would be a 200 mile car. That seems to now be dragged back to 150-160 with a bigger battery in the pipeline for a year later which would be a major disappointment especially since that year later could turn into far more.

Yes and we don't have price point visibility either which further compounds the issue , for example will there be a premium over the currebt ( already premium ) 30 kWh leaf. ??

Nissan can do a cheaper inefficient car or a dearer efficient one, a dearer inefficient car is not a winner

BoatMad

Soarer wrote: »

That's twice in almost as many posts that you've said that. What makes you think it?

I personally think it sounds exciting. And if it looks anything like the Micra or whatever, I think it'll look great!

Because a 40 kWh car at presumably a premium over the 30 kWh , delivering similar efficiencies to the current model ( which is what is suggested from the specs ) is very much " meh"

Hyundai simply have to release an equivalent battery ( circa 44kw ) to trounce the Nissan

Soarer

BoatMad wrote: »

Because a 40 kWh car at presumably a premium over the 30 kWh , delivering similar efficiencies to the current model ( which is what is suggested from the specs ) is very much " meh"

Hyundai simply have to release an equivalent battery ( circa 44kw ) to trounce the Nissan

The 30kWh battery is the only option available in the UK at the minute. So I can't see how you're presuming they're going to have a premium over the premium. Surely the thinking would be the current premium would be the next base, and then a new premium is formed?
Also, it's 40kWh usable. Which is nearly a 50% increase on the current usable of the 30kWh.

As for Hyundai, isn't there talk about the current form factor being an issue for a bigger battery? So why isn't that "meh"?

I'm not picking a fight like. I'm just wondering how someone can be so on one side of things when nothing's confirmed.

BoatMad

Soarer wrote: »

The 30kWh battery is the only option available in the UK at the minute. So I can't see how you're presuming they're going to have a premium over the premium. Surely the thinking would be the current premium would be the next base, and then a new premium is formed?
Also, it's 40kWh usable. Which is nearly a 50% increase on the current usable of the 30kWh.

As for Hyundai, isn't there talk about the current form factor being an issue for a bigger battery? So why isn't that "meh"?

I'm not picking a fight like. I'm just wondering how someone can be so on one side of things when nothing's confirmed.

We know most of the leafs details , i.e. Chademo , 40 kWh " usable " , expected EPA 250 km/h

I can't see the gen 2 leaf arriving at the same price point of the 30 kWh , which is in itself a premium on the 24

Hence I expect the list to be increased , this brings the Ioniq and leaf very close in price points.

Yes there is talk in the auto blogs that Hyundai have a form factor issue with increasing the battery size , but given Hyundai would have known about the next generation leaf , I find it hard to believe they didn't design in at least one battery iteration

aliveandkicking

cros13 wrote: »

Had a chat with someone at Nissan today.

Chademo confirmed, they looked at CCS and decided the dealers would revolt if they were asked to pay for new rapids/wanted to still serve Chademo-heavy markets/wanted to retain more commonality. They have had CCS in the lab to be ready if they have to switch for future EVs.

On the other hand, Type 1 for AC is dropped, Type 2 confirmed for the EU market. Higher AC charging speeds, 3-phase 16A or 32A might be standard/optional (not settled yet).

40kWh-class battery to start with the 60kWh following later. Better efficiency. Aiming for a solid 250km on the EPA cycle with the 40kWh pack. Range should be 40-50% above the 30kWh Leaf.

Nissan ProPilot single-lane motorway steering and adaptive cruise. Multi-lane with automatic lane changes might be coming but select markets and possibly delayed (they are having issues in testing).

New infotainment system.

Don't suppose you got any info on the upgraded e-NV200? Do you think we can expect to see that at the same time as the new Leaf?

unkel

Decent figures for the new Leaf! Now I guess the crucial issue will be pricing. If you can get one on the road for under €30k, it should sell. And I'm not sure what the "aiming" for the 250km means. If it won't make 250km, it would be disappointing. And still won't make it between Irelands two biggest cities without charging...

cros13

I was told about a year ago that the 60kWh would have a starting price north of ?30k and that the 40kWh would be in the region of ?25k.
But those were design targets with a margin, what the commercial side of Nissan decides to do in terms of pricing is probably still under discussion.

Soarer

cros13 wrote: »

I was told about a year ago that the 60kWh would have a starting price north of ?30k and that the 40kWh would be in the region of ?25k.
But those were design targets with a margin, what the commercial side of Nissan decides to do in terms of pricing is probably still under discussion.

Good man cros.

Any news on standard 6.6 charging?

You'd like to think it can't be too far north of 30k as it'll be pushing towards the Model 3. And hopefully sub 30k with scrappage.

60kWh Leaf with fast charging for ~28k after scrappage would be nice.

unkel

I think that's a bit optimistic Soarer. But even at €30k on the road after scrappage for the 60kWh (real life range over 300km) would be good

And €25k on the road after scrappage for the 40kWh would be very decent!

Presumably both will have 6.6kW charging as standard, with a 60kWh battery, you need it!