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Waterford fallen down the urban scale

JupiterKid

According to the results of the 2016 Census, Waterford city and suburbs had a population of 53,000. This compares to 79,000 for Galway, 100,000 for Limerick and 210,000 for Cork.

Here's the thing though, Waterford once held 4th place in the urban ranking scales. Until the 1980s it was larger than Galway.

So what has happened in the past 35 years?

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Deiseen

Squidvicious wrote: »

fuzzy dunlop wrote: »

Wouldn't you love for all this to be true? If Waterford vanished in the morning the South East would be just another part of the midlands:D. And the only benefit for the midlands would be it would suddenly have a coast line. We don't even stand out in our own county:D Really?

I'm not saying that Waterford doesn't stand out. Waterford is clearly the biggest urban centre in the South East and by some distance. However, the likes of Kilkenny, Clonmel and Wexford are good sized towns too. Galway and Limerick don't really have similar competition in their regions. In my view, this has helped their expansion as they tend to suck in all of the investment in the region.

I'm not really sure what point you're trying to make and I don't think that my point is really that controversial. And it's a simple fact that both Galway and Limerick counties are considerably larger than Waterford county on a population basis.

Obviously, Waterford stands out in its own county. However, the status of county capital is split with Dungarvan. That has some effect on Waterford as it means that a certain number of Council jobs are Dungarvan based. Again, not exactly rocket science, though I accept that the number of jobs probably isn't huge.

You make some valid points but your off your head if you think dungarven is the shared capital of the county.

Squidvicious

Deiseen wrote: »

You make some valid points but your off your head if you think dungarven is the shared capital of the county.

Well, perhaps I'm mistaken. However, I'm pretty sure that Dungarvan was the county capital before the amalgamation and that afterwards the title was to be shared between the two. Not that the status of county capital makes a huge difference either way in any county.

One way or another, I think I'm correct in saying that alot of council jobs are Dungarvan based. If these were all city based, it would be a boost for the city.

Max Powers

Deiseen wrote: »

You make some valid points but your off your head if you think dungarven is the shared capital of the county.

Agreed...that's just not the case...there is absolutely zero doubt where county capital is.the city.

Squidvicious

Max Powers wrote: »

Agreed...that's just not the case...there is absolutely zero doubt where county capital is.the city.

On checking the Council website it does say that their corporate hq is at city hall, the Mall so I may have to concede that point! I'm certain that Dungarvan was the county town before the merger but that seems to have changed following the merger.

Harry Palmr

It was the "county town" but of course that had no bearing on Waterford City's council to speak of.

That Dungarvan had that status arguably made no real sense in the way the county has two major GAA venues makes no real sense - just keeping everyone happy at both ends of the county with additional expense.

Squidvicious

Harry Palmr wrote: »

It was the "county town" but of course that had no bearing on Waterford City's council to speak of.

That Dungarvan had that status arguably made no real sense in the way the county has two major GAA venues makes no real sense - just keeping everyone happy at both ends of the county with additional expense.

The only difference that it made to Waterford city was that a certain number of Council jobs were Dungarvan based instead of being city based. The whole point of the merger was to cut costs so, presumably there will be a tendency to these jobs moving to the city which ought to give it a little bit of a lift(though overall numbers employed may fall).

fuzzy dunlop

Squidvicious wrote: »

fuzzy dunlop wrote: »

Wouldn't you love for all this to be true? If Waterford vanished in the morning the South East would be just another part of the midlands:D. And the only benefit for the midlands would be it would suddenly have a coast line. We don't even stand out in our own county:D Really?

I'm not saying that Waterford doesn't stand out. Waterford is clearly the biggest urban centre in the South East and by some distance. However, the likes of Kilkenny, Clonmel and Wexford are good sized towns too. Galway and Limerick don't really have similar competition in their regions. In my view, this has helped their expansion as they tend to suck in all of the investment in the region.

I'm not really sure what point you're trying to make and I don't think that my point is really that controversial. And it's a simple fact that both Galway and Limerick counties are considerably larger than Waterford county on a population basis.

Obviously, Waterford stands out in its own county. However, the status of county capital is split with Dungarvan. That has some effect on Waterford as it means that a certain number of Council jobs are Dungarvan based. Again, not exactly rocket science, though I accept that the number of jobs probably isn't huge.

The county capital is not split. It is Waterford and it is undisputed.Same for the NUTS 3 regional capital which despite the best efforts of certain backward political forces still exists. It is also the regional capital for the NUTS 2 region which contains Cork, Limerick and Dublin. The location of a Waterford county council based in Dungarvan was a historical anomaly created to satisfy the whims of local landlords in the County in the early 19th century.
The jobs lost/gained by administrative services located in Dungarvan are irrelevant as most of their labor intensive work is outsourced. With regard to Limerick and the lack of "competiton" in the form of other towns in the area is actually a good thing and makes a better case for the South East. Counties are barely relevant as their status is theoretically the same no matter what the population is.If they were the cities would have no relevance at all which would be a nonsense. Leitrim would be as important as Dublin.To plan anything along county lines is next to impossible. This is why they don't do it with anything of importance such as hospitals and other strategic planning. Regionally the South East stands out way ahead of both the Mid West and West population wise but is plagued by the number of counties all thinking they are the same.

robtri

Dungarvan (Irish: D?n Garbh?n, meaning "Garbhann's Fort") is a coastal town and harbour in County Waterford, on the south coast of Ireland. Prior to the merger of Waterford County Council with Waterford City Council in 2014, Dungarvan was the county town and administrative centre of County Waterford. Waterford City and County Council retains administrative offices in the town.

Strangely as well if you do a google search for "what is county capital for Co.Waterford" ... Dungarvan comes up ....

JupiterKid

fuzzy dunlop wrote: »

Firstly it's not my idea! Secondly I said it was an approximation. If Cahir is the best place then so be it but it seems to me that it would add extra miles to the journey for the Cork traveler that would make it difficult to implement politically. Tipp town was my rudimentary look at a map.
Thirdly I would question the bona fides of the person who started this thread. They started another thread on the Galway forum and they seem upset that Galway only grew by 5.6% in the last five years. Starting a thread on the Waterford forum about something that happened forty years ago seems like an attempt to deal with that upset.

I was the OP of this thread. In what way was my analysis of Galway's slower growth anything to do with the fact that Galway overtook Waterford in the 1980s in terms of populations? These are statistical FACTS. I've no hidden agenda here no matter what you may imagine.

fuzzy dunlop

JupiterKid wrote: »

fuzzy dunlop wrote: »

Firstly it's not my idea! Secondly I said it was an approximation. If Cahir is the best place then so be it but it seems to me that it would add extra miles to the journey for the Cork traveler that would make it difficult to implement politically. Tipp town was my rudimentary look at a map.
Thirdly I would question the bona fides of the person who started this thread. They started another thread on the Galway forum and they seem upset that Galway only grew by 5.6% in the last five years. Starting a thread on the Waterford forum about something that happened forty years ago seems like an attempt to deal with that upset.

I was the OP of this thread. In what way was my analysis of Galway's slower growth anything to do with the fact that Galway overtook Waterford in the 1980s in terms of populations? These are statistical FACTS. I've no hidden agenda here no matter what you may imagine.

Did I sat they weren't facts? Your thread is BS. I was the one who pointed out that the FACT that you are starting threads about something that happened nearly forty years ago as if it happened this year. So you are either ignorant or a nuisance poster. Seeing as Squidvicious seems to like you then it is probably the latter. And the answer to the question as to what happened is obvious, it is money, the BMW region tax scam and targeting of Galway for FDI in particular. Is it effective? I would say doubtful when the actual population of the city is transient and temporary in nature and the neighboring counties are experiencing zero growth in population. This is essentially a contrivance akin to imagining Temple Bar in Dublin to be a real Irish urban village like Stoneybatter or Ballybricken.

Squidvicious

fuzzy dunlop wrote: »

Did I sat they weren't facts? Your thread is BS. I was the one who pointed out that the FACT that you are starting threads about something that happened nearly forty years ago as if it happened this year. So you are either ignorant or a nuisance poster. Seeing as Squidvicious seems to like you then it is probably the latter. And the answer to the question as to what happened is obvious, it is money, the BMW region tax scam and targeting of Galway for FDI in particular. Is it effective? I would say doubtful when the actual population of the city is transient and temporary in nature and the neighboring counties are experiencing zero growth in population. This is essentially a contrivance akin to imagining Temple Bar in Dublin to be a real Irish urban village like Stoneybatter or Ballybricken.

For the record, I thanked him for his reply because I think that he is a genuine poster. Go back to his original post - he's asking why Waterford hasn't grown as quickly as Galway for the last 35 years. That's an ongoing phenomenon, not something which is temporary - Galway "passing out" Waterford 40 years ago is merely a symptom of that. Many of us have different views as to what has caused this difference. The biggest factor for me is the University, you have a different opinion and others have suggested different reasons. I thought that he sparked a debate which could be interesting so I don't see how it's a BS thread.

AFAIR, he also commented on the Boundary thread. He argued that the boundary move was a no-brainer and was in support of the change(so he wasn't exactly on my side of that debate) and he seemed to be interested in the issue. Again, that suggests to me that he's genuine.