nav[aria-label="Primary Navigation"] { padding: 0; & ul { list-style: none; width: 100%; display: flex; flex-direction: row; justify-content: start; align-items: start; gap: 30px; padding: 0; & li { margin: 0; } & ul li { list-style: none; } } }

Child Item

2018 Leaf

BoatMad

Had it confirmed by Nissan Ireland , 2018 leaf will debut with 40 kWh battery !

Find more posts tagged with

Quick Links

Comments

BoatMad

Deleted User wrote: »

As battery tech improves there will not be a need to hold as much in reserve. Smaller batteries will be cycled a lot more than larger ones so greater stresses will be suffered and one way to reduce this is to prevent a full 100% charge or discharge because batteries are also stressed more the higher the state of charge (SOC) and the longer the battery stays at a very low and high SOC.

So if you get into the car at 100% and drive to the shop and plug in a 90-98% and charge again and this is frequent this isn't good for the battery long term. Nissan recommend not to charge until a minimum of about 80% charge for instance.

There other factors involved such as time itself and the amount of current applied or taken. And improvements to all of this will mean longer battery life and even small changes to all or even just cycle life alone will make a big difference.

The changes will only occur if we move away from Li, ( and there are some promising alternatives , but are 10-15 years out to commercialisation )

Note on thev30 kWh , Nissan mention not to recharge from 95% ( can invalidate the battery warranty )

What's unclear, as be never tested it , for if you leave a leaf on an AC charger for days , on its timer , will the car restart a charge cycle , even if only briefly , hence self invalidating its own warranty !!!

[Deleted User]

LiFeP04 has a lot more cycle life so you can afford to use a bit more of the available capacity. One of the good things about LiFeP04, my old Ebike battery now 6 years old still has over 90% capacity.

I agree, in time no one will care about battery life.

BoatMad

KCross wrote: »

Would it need 4kWh in reserve? I didn't expect that the amount of reserve would have to go up in proportion to the battery size, particularly at the levels we are talking about... 30-60kWh.

Maybe at 100kWh you'd need a few more in reserve.

For a 40kWh, wouldn't the same 2kWh reserve be still enough to ensure the battery isn't ever at 100%... closer to 95% at max?

The reason you have usable capacity , is because allowing a Li battery to be drawn down below approx 15 % requirs you to slow charge ( called a pre-qualifying charge ) and leaving Li at very low discharges has a very bad f effect on cycle life. Hence all uses of Li tend to avoid draining below about 15% ( or so )

Less headroom is needed at full charge , but again around 5% would be reserved , mainly as the 100% fully charged point on a Li charge curve is not terribly well defined.

Hence in long life applications, 20 % or there about cant be readily accessed.

As long as we remain with Li technologies this is likely to remain , some Li chemistries can be tweaked ( like LIFEPO4) so that more usable capacity can be extracted , but the penalty is less capacity per M2/Kg , which car companies at present don't like

Ultimately battery capacity will exceed user requirements and all this focus on batteries will disappear.

[Deleted User]

As battery tech improves there will not be a need to hold as much in reserve. Smaller batteries will be cycled a lot more than larger ones so greater stresses will be suffered and one way to reduce this is to prevent a full 100% charge or discharge because batteries are also stressed more the higher the state of charge (SOC) and the longer the battery stays at a very low and high SOC.

So if you get into the car at 100% and drive to the shop and plug in a 90-98% and charge again and this is frequent this isn't good for the battery long term. Nissan recommend not to charge until a minimum of about 80% charge for instance.

There other factors involved such as time itself and the amount of current applied or taken. And improvements to all of this will mean longer battery life and even small changes to all or even just cycle life alone will make a big difference.

KCross

BoatMad wrote: »

I was informed next Leaf will be 40 kWh usable , i.e. 44kWh

Would it need 4kWh in reserve? I didn't expect that the amount of reserve would have to go up in proportion to the battery size, particularly at the levels we are talking about... 30-60kWh.

Maybe at 100kWh you'd need a few more in reserve.

For a 40kWh, wouldn't the same 2kWh reserve be still enough to ensure the battery isn't ever at 100%... closer to 95% at max?

BoatMad

by the way the Ioniq is 28 kWh usable , whi9ch suggest a 30-31 kWh actual battery

I was informed next Leaf will be 40 kWh usable , i.e. 44kWh , 60kWh is some time away as price point moves too much

Soarer

unkel wrote: »

Aye lads all true. Forgive me that was a bit of a rant last night

I can only hope the next Leaf will be a great car. We need a lot more EVs for sale that are competent and reasonably good value for money. As most of you in this forum, I bought an EV for a number of reasons - to save money and to leave this place in a better state for our children being two of the more important ones.

I actually came close to buying a Leaf last year. I have a lot of respect for the Leaf but that said, it is on its last legs now and doesn't compare well to competition like the Ioniq. And I suppose I have mentioned that once or twice I'm doing my best to spread the word about EVs but there's only so much any of us can do without more and better EVs on offer and the public (fast) charging situation has to improve radically too...

Yera, no harm.

Like you said, we're all in it together.

We'll all have our Model 3s in a couple of years anyway....

n97 mini

The CEO of Honda said " bring me the scalp of the GT-R" when the new NSX was in development.

I'd like to think something similar happened in Nissan re the Ioniq (and Model 3 maybe) with the new Leaf.

unkel

Aye lads all true. Forgive me that was a bit of a rant last night

n97 mini wrote: »

Unless you have a crystal ball or work at Nissan R&D you don't know what the next Leaf will be like. Facing increased competition Nissan has all the motives it needs to develop a more efficient car.

Btw you do take digs at the Leaf quite regularly.

I can only hope the next Leaf will be a great car. We need a lot more EVs for sale that are competent and reasonably good value for money. As most of you in this forum, I bought an EV for a number of reasons - to save money and to leave this place in a better state for our children being two of the more important ones.

I actually came close to buying a Leaf last year. I have a lot of respect for the Leaf but that said, it is on its last legs now and doesn't compare well to competition like the Ioniq. And I suppose I have mentioned that once or twice

I'm doing my best to spread the word about EVs but there's only so much any of us can do without more and better EVs on offer and the public (fast) charging situation has to improve radically too...

unkel

Calahonda52 wrote: »

꿈의 필드, 필요에 따라 수분 함량:D

Dream field, moisture content as needed?

[Deleted User]

Well you see, back in the day there was really no other car like the Leaf so it deserved harping on about !

No doubt if I were buying new today I'd buy the Ioniq. I'd rather see lots of Ioniqs than TDI Golfs and a lot more leafs too for that matter.

Soarer

unkel wrote: »

I'm not sure how so many people here came to the conclusion that I think my Ioniq is an awesome car.

Well it's obviously something you're putting out there seeing as "so many people" think it.

I've nothing against people living their cars....I'm loving my Leaf. But you do tend to harp on a bit about how good the Ioniq is, how it's "significantly faster" than the Leaf, how it's drag coefficient is the best in the world, how the new Leaf can't possibly be as good, calling Leaf owners out to do a comparison road trip like mope (?) did, yada yada.

I equate it to Mad Lad harping on about the Leaf back in the day. You don't want to be the Ioniq version of Mad Lad, do you?!

Orebro

unkel wrote: »

So far the car has done 1400km and it has cost me €0.40 in electricity.

That's why I think it's awesome right there ðŸ˜

Seriously though - it's a great thing for what it is. I think the best of both worlds is to have one of these for during the week, and a huge gas guzzling V8 in the garage on classic tax for the Sunday cruises.

goz83

unkel wrote: »

I'm not sure how so many people here came to the conclusion that I think my Ioniq is an awesome car. The Hyundai Ioniq EV is a budget family size hatchback from Korea. It looks like it was made in Korea. It feels like it was made in Korea. It drives like it was made in Korea. Front wheel drive (which is not what a keen driver would want). Nothing special there. And particularly not for someone like myself being used to far superior cars (mainly from Germany) that are better in every way. Over the past 20 years I've owned many BMWs and Porsches. Now they are awesome cars.

I bought the Ioniq as our family car as it is very good value for money, it is (in my mind) by far the best proposition for an electric car available today. I paid €25k all in, on the road incl. metallic paint and I had a free home charge point installed. So far the car has done 1400km and it has cost me €0.40 in electricity. The Ioniq is a very well specced car too. And it is the first EV car of its size and budget to have a reasonable range (200-300km)

You're just regretting not going for a black one

Calahonda52

unkel wrote: »

I'm not sure how so many people here came to the conclusion that I think my Ioniq is an awesome car. The Hyundai Ioniq EV is a budget family size hatchback from Korea. It looks like it was made in Korea. It feels like it was made in Korea. It drives like it was made in Korea. Front wheel drive (which is not what a keen driver would want). Nothing special there. And particularly not for someone like myself being used to far superior cars (mainly from Germany) that are better in every way. Over the past 20 years I've owned many BMWs and Porsches. Now they are awesome cars.

I bought the Ioniq as our family car as it is very good value for money, it is (in my mind) by far the best proposition for an electric car available today. I paid €25k all in, on the road incl. metallic paint and I had a free home charge point installed. So far the car has done 1400km and it has cost me €0.40 in electricity. The Ioniq is a very well specced car too. And it is the first EV car of its size and budget to have a reasonable range (200-300km)

꿈의 필드, 필요에 따라 수분 함량:D

n97 mini

unkel wrote: »

Someone wondered if the new Leaf is going to be as efficient as the Ioniq. My opinion is it will not be. Do you believe I'm wrong?

And did you read my post? I did not criticise the Leaf but I did criticise the Ioniq (delivery)

Unless you have a crystal ball or work at Nissan R&D you don't know what the next Leaf will be like. Facing increased competition Nissan has all the motives it needs to develop a more efficient car.

Btw you do take digs at the Leaf quite regularly.

unkel

I'm not sure how so many people here came to the conclusion that I think my Ioniq is an awesome car. The Hyundai Ioniq EV is a budget family size hatchback from Korea. It looks like it was made in Korea. It feels like it was made in Korea. It drives like it was made in Korea. Front wheel drive (which is not what a keen driver would want). Nothing special there. And particularly not for someone like myself being used to far superior cars (mainly from Germany) that are better in every way. Over the past 20 years I've owned many BMWs and Porsches. Now they are awesome cars.

I bought the Ioniq as our family car as it is very good value for money, it is (in my mind) by far the best proposition for an electric car available today. I paid €25k all in, on the road incl. metallic paint and I had a free home charge point installed. So far the car has done 1400km and it has cost me €0.40 in electricity. The Ioniq is a very well specced car too. And it is the first EV car of its size and budget to have a reasonable range (200-300km)

[Deleted User]

Efficiency isn't my main concern, and wouldn't tempt me either way, unless efficiency was horrible.

Not saying the Ioniq would not be my next car but if a more powerful more practical car was developed I'd choose that over any other.

Orebro

grogi wrote: »

You really like how awesome your Ioniq is, don't you?

And so he should be - they are an awesome car.

unkel

Someone wondered if the new Leaf is going to be as efficient as the Ioniq. My opinion is it will not be. Do you believe I'm wrong?

And did you read my post? I did not criticise the Leaf but I did criticise the Ioniq (delivery)

grogi

unkel wrote: »

That's not gonna happen. It would need a coefficient of drag of 0.24 (best in the world, only Tesla Model S and Ioniq have it) and with the general shape of the car it won't get near that

Wonder about the price. If the base model can be had on the road for under €30k, it should sell. Particularly now that the waiting times for Ioniq are ridiculously long

You really like how awesome your Ioniq is, don't you?

Ci is just a part of that equation here, frontal surface area being the second. The Leaf is primarily less efficient because it is taller (and more spacious inside) by 10cm.

unkel

Evd-Burner wrote: »

If they have 40kw usable with the same efficiency as the Ioniq

That's not gonna happen. It would need a coefficient of drag of 0.24 (best in the world, only Tesla Model S and Ioniq have it) and with the general shape of the car it won't get near that

Wonder about the price. If the base model can be had on the road for under €30k, it should sell. Particularly now that the waiting times for Ioniq are ridiculously long

Evd-Burner

Deleted User wrote: »

Nissan better have more power, and faster charging capability or I'm done with the leaf, 40 Kwh and a little bit different body just ain't going to cut it with me.

If they have 40kw usable with the same efficiency as the Ioniq my mum would likely go with it. That's like 285km real world range and probably 320km with the way she drives! 60kw would be better but it will likely be an expensive option!

[Deleted User]

Nissan better have more power, and faster charging capability or I'm done with the leaf, 40 Kwh and a little bit different body just ain't going to cut it with me.

Soarer

Even a 40kWh battery with an improvement in efficiency would make a massive jump.

Fiskar

n97 mini wrote: »

Met a chap who works for Nissan. 40kw in Feb followed by a 60kw towards end of the year. Chademo.

Didn't read much of this thread, so apologies if it's a repeat.

Wow, that should give it some range if it is 60 Kw. The Ioniq is only a mere 28Kwh. Bring it on.

n97 mini

Met a chap who works for Nissan. 40kw in Feb followed by a 60kw towards end of the year. Chademo.

Didn't read much of this thread, so apologies if it's a repeat.

unkel

KCross wrote: »

Is Leaf II just going to be a slightly larger version of this Micra?

Well Leaf I was a slightly larger version of the previous Micra, wasn't it?

Mope

Watched an episode of FullyCharged on youtube today, they mentioned Leaf quite few times and also, what caught my attention, is Zoe Sport. Little, very fast hot hatch :-]

cros13

Superficially similar... but that's all. Although the Leaf Mk.2 is based on the current Leaf (Nissan EV Platform) which is a modified Juke/NV200 (B0) platform which is a stretched version of the Nissan B platform that the Clio/Zoe/Micra are built on.

The Clio, new Micra and Zoe are all practically the same car and all built on the same production line.... literally. That's a much much closer relationship than being based on a platform that's based on a platform that's based on a platform... if you follow.