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Waterford fallen down the urban scale

JupiterKid

According to the results of the 2016 Census, Waterford city and suburbs had a population of 53,000. This compares to 79,000 for Galway, 100,000 for Limerick and 210,000 for Cork.

Here's the thing though, Waterford once held 4th place in the urban ranking scales. Until the 1980s it was larger than Galway.

So what has happened in the past 35 years?

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zurbfoundation

It is not fair to compare Galway to Waterford - its oranges and apple - Galway is a great and lively spot all week, all year.

please helpThank YOU

zurbfoundation wrote: »

It is not fair to compare Galway to Waterford - its oranges and apple - Galway is a great and lively spot all week, all year.

I Was in Galway City in Winter time and its Dead very quite its a 8 month of the year town.

Pinch Flat

As an aside, I work as a project manager - one of our clients builds student accommodstion. There new fast track planning regulations came in there in December that is supposed to speed up these schemes. The way it works is that you apply to an bord pleanala, who in turn consult with the local authority where the student accommodation is going.

All the towns with universities and colleges are listed - Galway, limerick, cork, Dublin. Waterford is missing from the legislation - not sure if this has been picked up by any of the local reps, but surely as a city with a large IT that aspires to university status this is not acceptable.

Pablo Escobar

fuzzy dunlop wrote: »

That is the thinking of a lot of people and its a good idea! Motorway from Waterford to Limerick and an interchange on the M8 where the Cork, Limerick and Waterford are connected this way. But I believe Leeside "insists" on the standalone M20.

Imagine the guile of wanting to connect the 2nd and 3rd cities by-passing towns that are currently choked with traffic!

Cynicism aside, if you do your reasearch the long-term plan is Limerick-Cork and Cork-Waterford. A plan to Cahir would be totally counter productive as whether you like it or not, Cork has a metro population of 400k and you either force most of the traffic out of the way or off the route.

Deiseen

please helpThank YOU wrote: »

zurbfoundation wrote: »

It is not fair to compare Galway to Waterford - its oranges and apple - Galway is a great and lively spot all week, all year.

I Was in Galway City in Winter time and its Dead very quite its a 8 month of the year town.

You must have caught it on a bad day then because I've been there during the winter many a time and the place does be hopping.

lawred2

fuzzy dunlop wrote: »

And what? Would 79000 qualify for some super Alpha Global City with a big hard on? Cities of 210000 barely register either. I love these pop up posters who draw some threshold at Galway.
The Eurostat definition is an urban population greater than 50000 regardless of administrative boundary. That is "URBAN". None of this conceited environs BS.

You're angry

Daisy78

please helpThank YOU wrote: »

I Was in Galway City in Winter time and its Dead very quite its a 8 month of the year town.

To be fair you seem to have a grudge against Galway as is evident from your posts. As a Galwegian I can assure you it is most definitely not an 8 month a year city.From February right through to December there are all types of events taking place, from theatre festivals, literature festivals, sporting events and the Christmas markets. Please get your facts right before you slate the place!!

please helpThank YOU

Daisy78 wrote: »

To be fair you seem to have a grudge against Galway as is evident from your posts. As a Galwegian I can assure you it is most definitely not an 8 month a year city.From February right through to December there are all types of events taking place, from theatre festivals, literature festivals, sporting events and the Christmas markets. Please get your facts right before you slate the place!!

In my opinion Galway City was very quite and dead when I was last there in the Winter time last. and my Friend works in Galway in the hotel sector and he is let go from work as it goes so quite for up to 3 to 4 months of the year he told me Galway is not a 12 months of the year City it goes very quite and dead when the tourist are not there so what wrong with me saying this.?

Daisy78

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Something I've posted about a few times over the years!

What happened was that Galway became the place outside Dublin - they got the university.

We "got" the university in the mid 1800's, hardly a recent development.

please helpThank YOU

Daisy78 wrote: »

We "got" the university in the mid 1800's, hardly a recent development.

okay I got it you have a University1800s. Waterford is City since 1206 over that is 780 years a city. Galway is a City since 1985 just 32 years a City.

Daisy78

please helpThank YOU wrote: »

okay I got it you have a University1800s. Waterford is City since 1206 over that is 780 years a city. Galway is a City since 1985 just 32 years a City.

Not correct. But I'm not sure how that is relevant anyway.

please helpThank YOU

Daisy78 wrote: »

Not correct. But I'm not sure how that is relevant anyway.

Honest have a look for yourself its mad but true how new Galway City has City Status in Ireland.

Squidvicious

Daisy78 wrote: »

To be fair you seem to have a grudge against Galway as is evident from your posts. As a Galwegian I can assure you it is most definitely not an 8 month a year city.From February right through to December there are all types of events taking place, from theatre festivals, literature festivals, sporting events and the Christmas markets. Please get your facts right before you slate the place!!

I don't know whether he does have a grudge against Galway but I can see how you might get that impression. Perhaps a touch of jealousy? Which is a shame really. If you want to improve Waterford, best focus on just that - no need to run down other places. Indeed Waterford can learn a lot from other places like Galway.

please helpThank YOU

Squidvicious wrote: »

I don't know whether he does have a grudge against Galway but I can see how you might get that impression. Perhaps a touch of jealousy? Which is a shame really. If you want to improve Waterford, best focus on just that - no need to run down other places. Indeed Waterford can learn a lot from other places like Galway.

Waterford City fallen down the urban scale why people need to stand up and make Waterford City Great again. like in the 1980s grab the bull by the horns and make it happen and take back the title as the fourth city in Ireland.

Squidvicious

please helpThank YOU wrote: »

Waterford City fallen down the urban scale why people need to stand up and make Waterford City Great again. like in the 1980s grab the bull by the horns and make it happen and take back the title as the fourth city in Ireland.

Perhaps but you won't do that by coming across as slagging off Galway, though you may not have intended that. The only way for Waterford "to take back the title" is to do things better than Galway, though I'm not sure that Waterford needs to be seen to somehow beat Galway or take back titles to be successful.

please helpThank YOU

zurbfoundation wrote: »

It is not fair to compare Galway to Waterford - its oranges and apple - Galway is a great and lively spot all week, all year.

interesting post.

Squid vicious making fun of Waterford City and you got sum thing to say about Waterford being made fun off here?

Squidvicious

please helpThank YOU wrote: »

interesting post. Squid vicious making fun of Waterford City and you got sum thing to say about Waterford being made fun off here?

Now I assume you're having a laugh at this stage? What have I said to make fun of Waterford? I haven't and I don't think anyone else has either.

fuzzy dunlop

Pablo Escobar wrote: »

fuzzy dunlop wrote: »

That is the thinking of a lot of people and its a good idea! Motorway from Waterford to Limerick and an interchange on the M8 where the Cork, Limerick and Waterford are connected this way. But I believe Leeside "insists" on the standalone M20.

Imagine the guile of wanting to connect the 2nd and 3rd cities by-passing towns that are currently choked with traffic!

Cynicism aside, if you do your reasearch the long-term plan is Limerick-Cork and Cork-Waterford. A plan to Cahir would be totally counter productive as whether you like it or not, Cork has a metro population of 400k and you either force most of the traffic out of the way or off the route.

I have done my research. There is no outstanding arguement that says Cork and Limerick "must" be directly connected. The idea that this scenario is unique is also a fallacy and a product of very conservative thinking.Countries typically have transport networks that involve hubs where major interchanges take place. A big scale example would be Atlanta in the US. A smaller scale would be Utrecht in the Netherlands. DIT have done the research on it and come up with alternative solutions to the thinking your advocating. Metropolitan Cork? Let's call it for what it really is which is County Cork because while the the "Metropolitan" term is technically applicable it is used and abused too much in Ireland to suggest a significance that really isn't there.

Road-Hog

fuzzy dunlop wrote: »

I have done my research. There is no outstanding arguement that says Cork and Limerick "must" be directly connected. The idea that this scenario is unique is also a fallacy and a product of very conservative thinking.Countries typically have transport networks that involve hubs where major interchanges take place. A big scale example would be Atlanta in the US. A smaller scale would be Utrecht in the Netherlands. DIT have done the research on it and come up with alternative solutions to the thinking your advocating. Metropolitan Cork? Let's call it for what it really is which is County Cork because while the the "Metropolitan" term is technically applicable it is used and abused too much in Ireland to suggest a significance that really isn't there.

I honestly don't know what you are trying to say.......could you simplify for someone with a Lower IQ

Harry Palmr

Hub and spoke HUB AND SPOKE!

but....

For passenger road transport, the spoke-hub model does not apply because drivers generally take the shortest or fastest route between two points.

Obviously there is some truth in this as people ask themselves why they should travel further even though it may be shorter in time and on a much better quality (and safer) road. Getting the people of Cork City in particular to go "the wrong" direction is the issue.

fuzzy dunlop

Road-Hog wrote: »

fuzzy dunlop wrote: »

I have done my research. There is no outstanding arguement that says Cork and Limerick "must" be directly connected. The idea that this scenario is unique is also a fallacy and a product of very conservative thinking.Countries typically have transport networks that involve hubs where major interchanges take place. A big scale example would be Atlanta in the US. A smaller scale would be Utrecht in the Netherlands. DIT have done the research on it and come up with alternative solutions to the thinking your advocating. Metropolitan Cork? Let's call it for what it really is which is County Cork because while the the "Metropolitan" term is technically applicable it is used and abused too much in Ireland to suggest a significance that really isn't there.

I honestly don't know what you are trying to say.......could you simplify for someone with a Lower IQ

Basically the three cities of Cork, Limerick and Waterford could be connected more cheaply by a motorway from Limerick to Waterford if this motorway connected to the M8 via an interchange somewhere between Clonmel and Tipperary town (very approximate). This would be instead of of a direct motorway between Cork and Limerick and another direct motorway between Limerick and Waterford.

Harry Palmr

fuzzy dunlop wrote: »

Basically the three cities of Cork, Limerick and Waterford could be connected more cheaply by a motorway from Limerick to Waterford if this motorway connected to the M8 via an interchange somewhere between Clonmel and Tipperary town (very approximate). This would be instead of of a direct motorway between Cork and Limerick and another direct motorway between Limerick and Waterford.

You mean just link them directly at Cahir!

fuzzy dunlop

Harry Palmr wrote: »

fuzzy dunlop wrote: »

Basically the three cities of Cork, Limerick and Waterford could be connected more cheaply by a motorway from Limerick to Waterford if this motorway connected to the M8 via an interchange somewhere between Clonmel and Tipperary town (very approximate). This would be instead of of a direct motorway between Cork and Limerick and another direct motorway between Limerick and Waterford.

You mean just link them directly at Cahir!

I would say Tipperary would be more viable.

Harry Palmr

Why would you add many millions to build a spur off the M8 to arrive at Tipp when Cahir is
just 21 KM away?

The other problem with your idea is the Galtee mountains are smack bang in the way, so the spur would have to go from Mitchelstown around the western side and then along the north side to Tipp which would be 40 km

fuzzy dunlop

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Why would you add many millions to build a spur off the M8 to arrive at Tipp when Cahir is
just 21 KM away?

The other problem with your idea is the Galtee mountains are smack bang in the way, so the spur would have to go from Mitchelstown around the western side and then along the north side to Tipp which would be 40 km

Firstly it's not my idea! Secondly I said it was an approximation. If Cahir is the best place then so be it but it seems to me that it would add extra miles to the journey for the Cork traveler that would make it difficult to implement politically. Tipp town was my rudimentary look at a map.
Thirdly I would question the bona fides of the person who started this thread. They started another thread on the Galway forum and they seem upset that Galway only grew by 5.6% in the last five years. Starting a thread on the Waterford forum about something that happened forty years ago seems like an attempt to deal with that upset.

fuzzy dunlop

Squidvicious wrote: »

I would put a lot of it down to third level education. Galway and Limerick have both a university and an IT. The actual population attending these colleges alone will affect population figures but more importantly, these universities assist in attracting other forms of investment.

Another factor is that Limerick and Galway are important regional centres in a way that Waterford isn't quite. For example, Limerick is the undisputed capital of a much larger county and is also the clear centre of the Mid-West. Waterford isn't even the undisputed capital of its own county. Galway is in a similar position to Limerick. However, Waterford does not have the same numerical advantage as Galway and Limerick over it's local rivals such as Kilkenny and Wexford so investments funds from government tend to be spread a bit more evenly across the region or often don't reach the region at all as resources for the entire region are routed to Cork or Dublin instead.

I'm sure that there are other reasons but I think that the above two are very significant.

Wouldn't you love for all this to be true? If Waterford vanished in the morning the South East would be just another part of the midlands:D. And the only benefit for the midlands would be it would suddenly have a coast line. We don't even stand out in our own county:D Really?

Mutant z

Even towns like drogheda and dundalk are closing in on waterford in urban population stakes.

Harry Palmr

They are Dublin suburbs.

Pablo Escobar

fuzzy dunlop wrote: »

I have done my research. There is no outstanding arguement that says Cork and Limerick "must" be directly connected. The idea that this scenario is unique is also a fallacy and a product of very conservative thinking.Countries typically have transport networks that involve hubs where major interchanges take place. A big scale example would be Atlanta in the US. A smaller scale would be Utrecht in the Netherlands. DIT have done the research on it and come up with alternative solutions to the thinking your advocating. Metropolitan Cork? Let's call it for what it really is which is County Cork because while the the "Metropolitan" term is technically applicable it is used and abused too much in Ireland to suggest a significance that really isn't there.

You're first line is amazingly subjective. What I can say is that the current plan, if it is to be built, is Limerick-Cork. Linking cities is not solely to link the 2 cities, but also to serve populations in the hinterland and to improve transit for commuters. The Limerick Cork corridor has settlements of people that warrant a better road infrastructure. The Limerick-Cahir route does not.

Also, who is saying that the scenario is unique? It's a case of a dangerous road that is over capacity. It requires upgrade either way.

Metro Cork is not County Cork. It's largely the local commuter belt for the city. It's the area that creates critical mass to warrant such developments. It's very applicable when considering infrastructure so I'm not sure why you'd have a problem with the use of such terminology.

Squidvicious

fuzzy dunlop wrote: »

Wouldn't you love for all this to be true? If Waterford vanished in the morning the South East would be just another part of the midlands:D. And the only benefit for the midlands would be it would suddenly have a coast line. We don't even stand out in our own county:D Really?

I'm not saying that Waterford doesn't stand out. Waterford is clearly the biggest urban centre in the South East and by some distance. However, the likes of Kilkenny, Clonmel and Wexford are good sized towns too. Galway and Limerick don't really have similar competition in their regions. In my view, this has helped their expansion as they tend to suck in all of the investment in the region.

I'm not really sure what point you're trying to make and I don't think that my point is really that controversial. And it's a simple fact that both Galway and Limerick counties are considerably larger than Waterford county on a population basis.

Obviously, Waterford stands out in its own county. However, the status of county capital is split with Dungarvan. That has some effect on Waterford as it means that a certain number of Council jobs are Dungarvan based. Again, not exactly rocket science, though I accept that the number of jobs probably isn't huge.