letf wrote: » Which of Belvo's SCT winning side last year quit rugby for GAA? None. At most two players from that side look likely to make the academy setup. Interesting you don't address the rest of my points about club players not getting the same opportunity to develop via coaching/support. Or the fact that players from outside the elite school system are being ignored.
Stainalert wrote: » It is a lot more than that. Look at the current squad of players and where they come from. Your accusation that the academy and it's coaches are biased has no factual evidence. Rugby selection is always subjective and this will apply to academy selections whether you like it or not.
Granny15 wrote: » Hawkshaw as far as I'm aware. Belvo should have a bigger representation than they do.If the Clubs don't give the players the same support/coaching as schools then that is a downfall that the Clubs players will have to live with. Players aren't ignored if they are good enough.
letf wrote: » Current Leinster squad breakdown: St. Michaels: 11(Molony, Leavy, McGrath, Marsh, Reid, Ryan, Deegan, Murphy, McCarthy, Byrne, O'Loughlin) Blackrock: 8(Murphy, Ringrose, Loughman, O'Connor, Rock, Carbery, Power, Keenan) Clongowes: 7(Byrne, Byrne, Kearney, Kearney, McFadden, Connors, Timmins) Club Rugby: 6(Dooley, Furlong, Kearney, O'Brien, Daly, O'Brien) Newbridge: 3(Heaslip, Tracy, O'Brien) St. Marys: 3(McGrath, Sexton, Kennedy) Gonzaga: 2(Ryan, Daly) Belvedere: 1(Healy) Castleknock: 1(Toner) Wesley: 1(JVDF) Gerards: 1(Conan) Terenure: 1(Dardis) Kings Hosptial: 1(Fitzpatrick) Rockwell: 1(McNulty) Exile: 1(Ruddock) Andrews: 1(Porter) Roscrea: 1(Heffernan)
Granny15 wrote: » So what you're saying is that there are better players out there. Name them! (God it feels good to be top of that list.)
letf wrote: » Leinster Squad next season breakdown: St. Michaels: 14(Molony, Leavy, McGrath, Marsh, Reid, Ryan, Deegan, Murphy, McCarthy, Byrne, O'Loughlin, Dowling, Kelleher, Kelly) Blackrock: 11(Murphy, Ringrose, Loughman, O'Connor, Rock, Carbery, Power, Keenan, Doris, Mullin, O'Brien) Clongowes: 7(Byrne, Byrne, Kearney, Kearney, McFadden, Connors, Timmins) Club Rugby: 7(Dooley, Furlong, Kearney, O'Brien, Daly, O'Brien, Aungier) Newbridge: 3(Heaslip, Tracy, O'Brien) St. Marys: 3(McGrath, Sexton, Kennedy) Belvedere: 2(Healy, O'Sullivan) Andrews: 2(Porter, Larmour) Gonzaga: 1(Daly) Castleknock: 1(Toner) Wesley: 1(JVDF) Gerards: 1(Conan) Rockwell: 1(McNulty) Exile: 1(Ruddock) Roscrea: 1(Heffernan)
Stainalert wrote: » Loughman & Carberry only finished in Blackrock - a lot of their formative years spent elsewhere. Most of the Michaels & Rock player in that squad were brought in by other coaches other than the current academy coach who you are pointing the finger at.
letf wrote: » Explain the lack of players from the 1997 age group, only 4 players offered academy places. the 1996 age group had 9 players offered academy places. the 1995 age group had 10 players offered academy places. The 1997 age group have had 4 players offered academy places, it's very odd that next most likely players to be offered academy places from this age group are club players and they have not been offered places. I can't see a good argument for not offering McElroy or Frawley academy places especially given academy contracts are now only a year long. Either way it looks terrible to those from the non-schools background.
Granny15 wrote: » Look, play the Clubs from that age grade against the schools and you will see who the better players are. Guaranteed they are all from the schools. Those from a non-schools background need to get to grips with their failure to develop better players. It's that way not the other way around as you are stating it. I'd like to add the Michaels SCT played Belvo U20's this season and beat them by 60 points. Go figure.
letf wrote: » Just because you played schools rugby does not make you more talented.. Why is Ronan Kelleher behind Tadgh McElroy then for Ireland u20? Why is Ciaran Frawley 1st choice 12? Why is Paul Boyle is choice 7 over Barry Fitzpatrick or Tom De Jongh? It's utter bollix. what Michaels SCT did to Belvo's under-20's is irrelevant to this discussion.
Granny15 wrote: » I've got 2 words for you - affirmative action. Look at how the South African team is doing.
Stainalert wrote: » Because the Ireland U20's coach is a different person to the Leinster academy coach and has different views on players which is all subjective. Personally I would have both Boyle and McElroy in the Leinster academy.
Tarf1234 wrote: » I think the preferring schools players as a narrative also does a disservice to the work put in by clubs to many of these players. Lots of these guys will also have played club rugby and as already pointed out in Carberry and Loughmans case primarily played club rugby. Augnier going in next year as a clubs player as well realistically.
letf wrote: » When I say clubs player I mean a player who has come through the club underage development structures and has played leinster u18 clubs, shane horgan cup etc. Aungier fits that obviously. I still haven't seen a good reason for why so few players were offered academy places in the 1997 age group. The club players ignored by the academy are more than good enough for an academy place.
Wegians89 wrote: » Hopefully the likes of McElroy, Frawley and Boyle can get contracts in Ireland, three very talented lads going on six nations
shuffol wrote: » Surely this is a discussion for when the Leinster academy isn't producing top level players, as it stands it's probably the most productive academy in Europe. And it's no surprise why a coach picking with short-term results in mind would differ from a coach who's looking 3 years down the line. Part of why the NFL drafts is so interesting.
The Lost Sheep wrote: » That isnt really true. Schools players train more but that doesnt mean theyre necessarily better players. And an SCT team trains much more than a 20s side by and large so you would expect many schools sides to beat a 20s side and Belvederes 20s were very average this season finishing mid table in division 2...
"Their attitude down home - I see the young lads - is phenomenal," O'Brien says. "It is just probably lacking a bit of coaching and training twice-a-week when kids up here (Dublin) are training every day of the week.
letf wrote: » Most productive academy in europe is saracens. Leinster are 2nd.
letf wrote: » Pretty sure all three have academy contract offers from Connacht. Certainly the first two.
Wegians89 wrote: » Oh that's great news, those three added to Luke carty, sean masterson, Ryan feelihy and colm de buitlear isn't a bad bunch
letf wrote: » http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/leinster-rugby/leinster-benefiting-from-looking-outside-the-box-35658425.html As Seanie says
letf wrote: » Assuming they take them up, could have offers from elsewhere.
CMOTDibbler wrote: » As Seanie also said, he's coaching down in Tullow as often as possible. And as the article also points out, Trevor Hogan is employed by Leinster to go around the clubs and talent scout. Training and coaching is always going to be an issue because it's outside school hours and there's only so much time lads can give in that time frame.
