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Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours 2016/2017

Lord TSC

New thread cause the old one hit 10k posts.

Old thread: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057671953

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Harry Palmr

ricero wrote: »

James pearce saying tonight that the club are willing to break our transfer record for van diijk. Also sports bild in germany are claiming we are in for douglas costa

Just read that bild article, it is only repeating claims made elsewhere. Just clickbait stuff for now.

marklazarcovic

Be pretty surprised if Bale is at Madrid next season too

Gbear

If Klopp thinks Van Dijk is near enough the best CB in the world, that he'll be able to handle the ludicrous pressure of that price tag alongside playing for the ****test team in the world for a defender to play in, then maybe it'll be worth boxing that position off even at that cost.

However, while we don't have the best defence in the world, personnel wise, there's systemic issues around the position of our full backs, the fact that one of them isn't a full back, the inability to form a consistent CB partnership, much less back 5, being a squad of midgets and the lack of DMs in the squad that IMO have by far the biggest impact.

Spurs have the best defenders in the league 1-4 and a usually excellent keeper behind them. Then they've got a very busy midfield in front of that.
That's rock solid.
Chelsea, on the other hand... meh. Other than Kante, that's all about the system.
They're level on goals conceded or near enough.

Spending 50m on a CB when you nearly need to spend the same again on full back and DM, and you're an attacking team that's going to systematically leave your defence in the lurch week after week regardless who's playing in it, doesn't strike me as good value for money.

I like the idea of boxing positions off even at inflated fees, but I don't think we have that kind of money to throw around on a CB, even with the supposed 200m warchest.
If you get a £50m striker that can transform a side. I don't think Van Dijk would even if individually he'd be very good and massive improvement on, say, Lovren.

Also, if City, Chelsea or Utd want him, they'll get him, unless we really get silly, in which case he'd be an even worse use of our resources.

chicorytip

ricero wrote:

James pearce saying tonight that the club are willing to break our transfer record for van diijk. Also sports bild in germany are claiming we are in for douglas costa

Van Diijk is overrated as is Keane. Gabriel, of Arsenal, is impressive. Harry Maguire looks a good all rounder. A specialist defensive coach is a much needed acquisition in any event.

Ferris_Bueller

£50m for Van Diijk would be madness. Would hate to see us buy him for that price, as Gbear said I don't think he would bring £50ms worth of improvement to our defence. I would rather see that spent on 2 or 3 players across the backline, how many defenders on the planet are worth £50m? Maybe someone like Chelsea, United or City will splash that much on him but we aren't in a position to waste so much money on a player who is by no means a guaranteed performer.

~Rebel~

Yeah, unless we're planning on spending 300+ million, van dijk at 50m would be insanity. Double what we should be spending on a CB.

super_furry

Don't really care what the fee is as long as we get the right players.

ricero

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Yeah, unless we're planning on spending 300+ million, van dijk at 50m would be insanity. Double what we should be spending on a CB.

Reckon it will only happen if we make champions league. Thats the price these days for a premier league centre half sure stones went for 50 and hes not worth half the price imo.

Reckon with the sales of sturridge, sakho and moreno etc will provide klopp with plenty of extra cash to get his targets.

If klopp wants the players then the club should back him all the way. Got to trust the manager

Gbear

super_furry wrote: »

Don't really care what the fee is as long as we get the right players.

It isn't about getting value for money on a transfer for the sake of it. It's about spending limited resources efficiently.

We won't be able to match our rivals £ for £ and certainly not when you take a few years into account.
Then you have to account for them mostly having better players than us to begin with.

Utd can just spend 300m every summer until they get it right by accident.

We need to be some combination of being better coached or more efficiently put together to close the gap.

NukaCola

At what point do we just bite the bullet and sign up the Southampton recruitment team......

~Rebel~

NukaCola wrote: »

At what point do we just bite the bullet and sign up the Southampton recruitment team......

Or just buy the club. Getting close to the stage where that would have been cheaper.

Osmosis Jones

To suddenly see people saying "X amount of money is too much to spend on so and so" is bizarre after so many Januarys and summers of "just pay the asking price and stop faffing about."

BorneTobyWilde

Keeping Sturridge as an ornament could be an option. We need a bigger squad, would be great to pull him off the shelf when fit. He needs replacing of course, as does Suarez. Taking TOO LONG to bring in a proven striker.

~Rebel~

Osmosis Jones wrote: »

To suddenly see people saying "X amount of money is too much to spend on so and so" is bizarre after so many Januarys and summers of "just pay the asking price and stop faffing about."

Well, except that it's entirely possible that the people saying A, are not the same people who said B...

Look, at the end of the day we have to trust the manager. If he believes that spending between 1/4 and 1/2 of our entire budget on a CB is the right way to go, then so be it. As long as the other key positions that need strengthening are in fact strengthened adequately, i'm fine with whatever ratio of spending he decides upon. But if we end up spending that much on a CB, and don't have absolutely top quality options elsewhere when the window shuts, I'll be disappointed.

As an aside, i just don't see CB as an area where a 20m difference buys you all that much. Like, you'll get an absolutely top quality CB for 30m. Meanwhile, the difference between a 30m wingforward/striker will get you a very different player to 50m.

corwill

Osmosis Jones wrote: »

To suddenly see people saying "X amount of money is too much to spend on so and so" is bizarre after so many Januarys and summers of "just pay the asking price and stop faffing about."

£50million+ on a CB with a decent season and a half of PL ball under his belt with Southampton, playing behind 2 DMs, though? Really?

Look, maybe that's the going rate these days, maybe I'm just suffering from future shock. As Nuka (I think) posted up thread, how about we put the cash into buying Southampton's scouts as this stage. ****ing blue in the face with not picking these guys up before every other club under the sun spots them.

mosstin

corwill wrote: »

£50million+ on a CB with a decent season and a half of PL ball under his belt with Southampton, playing behind 2 DMs, though? Really?

Look, maybe that's the going rate these days, maybe I'm just suffering from future shock. As Nuka (I think) posted up thread, how about we put the cash into buying Southampton's scouts as this stage. ****ing blue in the face with not picking these guys up before every other club under the sun spots them.

It is if you buy from another English team. VVD's stock is high so you'll pay a premium price to get him.

Harry Palmr

If a club want a player wanted by one of Chelsea/Utd/City they will have to pay a premium and have something to offer in wages and obviously CL football. We don't even know if the latter is part of the Liverpool armoury yet! In other words best not to spend much time thinking about this.

OwaynOTT

Jovanni Rhythmic Ladybug wrote: »

But we didn't compromise, Klopp/FSG just sat on their hands, did nothing and bought no one. Even thou they were well aware of what Nukacola has just outlined. We were well in the hunt for the title and they did f?ck all. Now we are struggling to get top four, banking on other teams to mess up.

Criminal carry on from one or both parties.

Good luck to both Sturridge and Sakho when they eventually leave at the end of the season. Both lacking either the mental fortitude or mental capability to play for Liverpool. Neither could be relied upon by us for one reason or another the last couple of seasons.

I know we didn't compromise. I was saying sometimes one has to compromise when they can't get what they want but we didn't and as you rightly said, it has bitten us on the tush.
I'd say Klopp was only spinning the story anyway.

corwill

mosstin wrote: »

It is if you buy from another English team. VVD's stock is high so you'll pay a premium price to get him.

I get that he's not available for less. I'm just not sold on it being a good use of whatever transfer funds are available, either by reference to what a CB from elsewhere might cost, or by reference to other areas of the team where the money might be spent. Is he really that much better than the likes of Ben Gibson, or Winston Reid, or (god forgive me) Scott Dann? He's looked good against us a few times, but sure who hasn't?

BorneTobyWilde

mosstin

corwill wrote: »

I get that he's not available for less. I'm just not sold on it being a good use of whatever transfer funds are available, either by reference to what a CB from elsewhere might cost, or by reference to other areas of the team where the money might be spent. Is he really that much better than the likes of Ben Gibson, or Winston Reid, or (god forgive me) Scott Dann? He's looked good against us a few times, but sure who hasn't?

I absolutely don't think he's worth that fee and would be very happy if we looked elsewhere. He's better than Reid though, no doubt. Keane from Burnley will probably be moving on - interesting to see what fee he goes for. Seems a better defender to me.

BorneTobyWilde

MMD_448961_gif_alberto_moreno_celebra_el_gol_de_sturridge_como_el.gif

Moreno really has no rhythm on or off the ball.

Milkers

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

He can probably still do that part when fit but the bit that preceded it i.e. sprinting to get the breaking ball...

mormank

corwill wrote: »

£50million+ on a CB with a decent season and a half of PL ball under his belt with Southampton, playing behind 2 DMs, though? Really?

Look, maybe that's the going rate these days, maybe I'm just suffering from future shock. As Nuka (I think) posted up thread, how about we put the cash into buying Southampton's scouts as this stage. ****ing blue in the face with not picking these guys up before every other club under the sun spots them.

Ya but Van Dijk played for Celtic before Southampton. If we started buying players from Celtic to go straight into our first team you would just have people bitching about buying players from that standard of league to go straight into our first team. Take Dembele for example who plays at Celtic, I would be happy enough if we signed him this summer but if we did you would get heaps of people on here complaining about that signing, hell plenty of people on here were bitching about us signing Mane ffs, however if Dembele signed for West ham and started banging them in you would have people bitching about why we didnt sign him. Point is, you can never keep everyone happy.

[Deleted User]

corwill wrote: »

£50million+ on a CB with a decent season and a half of PL ball under his belt with Southampton, playing behind 2 DMs, though? Really?..............

It's lunacy, last Summer we bought Mane off them who was half way through a 4 year contract so they weren't in a must sell position and he cost £34m.
A goal every 3 game AM/Winger/Strikerish chap. Mane is currently just turned 25, in asset terms he should be worth decent money for the next few years barring injury etc etc.

How anyone reckons £50 for a soon to be 26 year old CB makes any sense is beyond me. When you factor in we need a LB/WB, CM/DM (x2 essentially), another Mane & a top striker.

It's lunacy IMO but I reckon it won't happen anyway

We should just buy whoever S'ton plan on replacing him with or buy both M'Boro CBs

Gibson would cost half of the Van d price and is left footed

NukaCola

Van Dijk would be a very good signing. Its a lot of money though definitely and without a system change it would be a waste of money. Bring him in and actually have a DM in front etc and it could go a long way to sorting out a lot of issues.

corwill

mormank wrote: »

Ya but Van Dijk played for Celtic before Southampton. If we started buying players from Celtic to go straight into our first team you would just have people bitching about buying players from that standard of league to go straight into our first team. Take Dembele for example who plays at Celtic, I would be happy enough if we signed him this summer but if we did you would get heaps of people on here complaining about that signing, hell plenty of people on here were bitching about us signing Mane ffs, however if Dembele signed for West ham and started banging them in you would have people bitching about why we didnt sign him. Point is, you can never keep everyone happy.

If our transfers are to be dictated in that fashion, and the club has that little confidence in its scouting, then we might as well go home. Keeping people 'happy' isn't the objective, or shouldn't be.

murpho999

People were on here last year saying we paid to much for Mane.

Same was said when Torres signed.

I don't know why people worry about transfer fees, let the club and manager look after that. If a player is successful than the transfer fee becomes a non issue.

Don't see it happening anyway as City or Chelsea might go for him, unless we get in there first and make him want to play for us.

corwill

murpho999 wrote: »

I don't know why people worry about transfer fees, let the club and manager look after that.

Because the club and successive managers haven't looked after that very well for extended periods over the last 30 years? Because there isn't an infinite amount of money, and we need significant improvement in a variety of areas?

Osmosis Jones

If the club thinks van Dijk is the best player for the team then I say go for it. We don't just spend money for the sake of it, last summer there was big money going around for defenders (Stones, Bailly, Luiz,) and we managed to pick Matip up for free. I just hope we buy whoever Klopp and his staff think will perform the best, if that's VvD and we can't get him for less than 50m then so be it.