pilly wrote: » I'm definitely out on the basis that people seem to think that not only is it a right to have abortion on demand, it's a right to have it free.
It will encourage carelessness and a devil may care attitude.
pilly wrote: » No-one will die without an abortion.
kunst nugget wrote: » You have a slight disagreement with complete strangers online about how abortions should be paid for and that's enough to swing you? That's a bit ott imo…
pilly wrote: » It's not a slight disagreement though is it? Every single answer from a pro-choice person as been "yep, should be free". It's beginning to dawn on me that there's no middle ground here, no compromise at all. The pro-life crowd are all "no no no, never never never" and the pro-choice crowd are all "yes, yes, yes, in any circumstances and what's more lets make it free". The issue is a lot more complex than that if people don't recognise that then this referendum is going to be lost. Okay, maybe it's a bit of an OTT reaction because I am genuinely shocked at the sense of entitlement people have around it. But it's certainly making me think twice.
kunst nugget wrote: » Eh, was that not the whole problem with Savita Halappanavar?
seamus wrote: » You see, I wouldn't go so far as to say there's a right to have it free. But it's the only way that makes social and economic sense. Making it something that only the wealthy can afford is restricting access to abortion for the socio-economic group who need it most. It's like saying that the morning-after pill should be €100 a pop so that people use it responsibly. The reality is that by making it expensive, people don't use it responsibly; they just don't use it at all. In your opinion. Do some research on how it works around the world before you make up your mind. The reality is that countries with liberal access to both contraceptives and abortion, see the lowest rates of abortion. It has to be a combined approach.
ohnonotgmail wrote: » so you would deny women the right to choose because you are upset that they might get it free?
pilly wrote: » The morning after pill is not free at the moment. You do know that don't you?
pilly wrote: » It's not a slight disagreement though is it? Every single answer from a pro-choice person as been "yep, should be free". It's beginning to dawn on me that there's no middle ground here, no compromise at all.
ohnonotgmail wrote: » and it costs between €20 and €30. Not hundreds.
pilly wrote: » It's still a cost and that cost is there for a reason. If anyone here thinks that removing all consequences for irresponsible behaviour will not increase that behaviour then they are sorely mistaken.
seamus wrote: » We've given our rationale for it though. It's not blind obsession with availability or dogmatic adherence to a "right". Just simple logic. Like I say, do some research on the situation globally. It's not a black-and-white issue, far from it.
Sofiztikated wrote: » I may be reading this differently to you, but I'm not seeing a sense of entitlement. I'm seeing people give you reasons as to why it should be accessible to all, and you disagree. I won't say free, because it's not free. It would be paid for out of taxation. Not that I necessarily agree with them, but it seems to me that you're going under the "Well, I paid for mine, they can pay for theirs" argument.
pilly wrote: » Here's some research for you. And it wasn't hard to find.http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/news/9296924/Tens-of-thousands-of-women-have-had-more-than-one-abortion-official-statistics.html
pilly wrote: » If anyone here thinks that removing all consequences for irresponsible behaviour will not increase that behaviour then they are sorely mistaken.
January wrote: » It's not early to feel movement on second or subsequent pregnancies. Once you.know what it feels like it's pretty easy to notice it earlier second/third etc time round. I've had 5 pregnancies and I felt movement around 18 weeks on my first, on the others I could feel it earlier. (Only when lying down relaxing though).
seamus wrote: So free abortions don't factor into people's thinking any more than expensive abortions do. It's only once you've become pregnant that it becomes an issue.
pilly wrote: » At the moment even the morning after pill is not free and there's a reason for this.
pilly wrote: » Do we currently pay for gastric band surgery? No? The country is not currently paying to cure obesity, it's simply treating illnesses, otherwise people will die.
pilly wrote: » It's not a slight disagreement though is it? Every single answer from a pro-choice person as been "yep, should be free". It's beginning to dawn on me that there's no middle ground here, no compromise at all. The pro-life crowd are all "no no no, never never never" and the pro-choice crowd are all "yes, yes, yes, in any circumstances and what's more lets make it free".
infogiver wrote: » Apparently you shouldn't say these things because it might be hurtful to women who've had abortions at 12 weeks. When the mother of a little girl who has Downs Syndrome brought her rather lovely and bold little girl to the Assembly, the Repeal people complained afterwards that that was hurtful to any women watching who had aborted their DS unborn. It's like living in the twighlite zone.
pjohnson wrote: » I guess he wasnt sarcastic. So now money trumps womens rights. Thats a new angle for the anti choice to play.
pjohnson wrote: I guess he wasnt sarcastic. So now money trumps womens rights. Thats a new angle for the anti choice to play.
The_Valeyard wrote: » And I'm sure the anti-life crowd will also have a new angle to play. Both sides seem to do.
infogiver wrote: » Apparently you shouldn't say these things because it might be hurtful to women who've had abortions at 12 weeks.When the mother of a little girl who has Downs Syndrome brought her rather lovely and bold little girl to the Assembly, the Repeal people complained afterwards that that was hurtful to any women watching who had aborted their DS unborn. It's like living in the twighlite zone.
pilly wrote: » I am a woman which you'd know if read posts rather than popping in with your one liners..
