masculinist wrote: » So you think its your body right up until the day you give birth ? I see two bodies. If that second body was put there through rape or molestation .i.e against the will of the first body, or if it was endangering your life then I can understand the need to remove it and I'd not blame you. However if that second body , that second life was put there due to the consenting behavior of the mother then I'm not convinced because I see a life there for whom you'd be fully ethically responsible in my view. If someone punched a pregnant lady in the stomach and she had a miscarriage , I'd fully believe that person to have committed murder. Similarly I would have a dim view of someone pregnant who was drinking , smoking and taking various drugs etc. How would you view this ? Its a big nothing if the baby is born with fetal alcohol syndrome with disabilities and significantly lower IQ ?
masculinist wrote: » Every time you have sex , you know you risk creating a life. Knowing the consequences and taking responsibility for them is called being an adult. Feminists have no problem telling a man on the hook for child support that he should ''keep it in his pants'' or ''man up'' . Adult women, particularly the feminists being offended at a requirement to ''woman up'' and take responsibility for their actions seem to be the hypocrites here.
me_right_one wrote: » The repeal side wanted to remove the 8th so that Ireland would have an abortion-on-demand system. They didnt realise that repealing it would not automatically lead to such a system, but they were correct insofar as it would be a step towards it.
me_right_one wrote: » The outcome from yesterday means that the unborn still have EQUAL right to life as anyone else. This rules out abortion-on-demand completely. It is now off the table.
me_right_one wrote: » What is left to decide is when it will be ok to abort for reasons other than medical (which was legalised in 2013). The CA will likely recommend a referendum on an amendment to the 8th which will allow lawful abortion in certain non-medical cases, ie incest and rape.
me_right_one wrote: » I am pro-life. I do not see this as a good outcome, although at least it smashes any ambitions of abortion-on-demand ever being legal.
Barbie! wrote: » As I have previously stated I believe that a woman's body is hers right up to the minute of birth.
masculinist wrote: » Lets be logical here now . What exactly is your problem ? Are you judging promiscuous women ? Because I was not. I even went so far as to praise them. However if a life is created through a consensual action then its time to be an adult and take responsibility. And that is very different from a non consenting situation. And why the name calling ? I have never been a hypocrite. Not even once. This is why sjws and feminists are so difficult to have a logical discussion with. They only see what they want to see. And when they cant find a logical argument , they resort to name calling.
volchitsa wrote: » Why do I get the impression that only the promiscuous women get saddled with the baby by posters like the one you're replying to? I bet he has no plans to force fathers to bring up the child if the mother doesn't want it, never mind do so himself! As for "consensual sex" meaning consensual parenthood, it's laughable, or it should be. Are you consenting to get lung cancer every time you smoke? Or to get sunburn if you don't buy the most effective sun creams when on holiday and use them without fail? So if you get sun stroke or lung cancer, the doctor tells you to live with it? :rolleyes:
masculinist wrote: » Again you only see what you want to see. You've created a false argument so you can argue with yourself. I have the right to judge anyone I want and vice versa. However I have not done so despite all your conniptions. Men are mercilessly judged all the time. Thankfully by not all women but theres a certain type of women who want all the benefits of living in a civilized adult society and none of the responsibilities. My children want for nothing. So less of the false accusations please eh ? I can see now that victims of rape dont seem to be your main priority here otherwise you would have found some common ground. You are more concerned with abortion on demand of a life created by consent by a responsible adult. And I cannot support that.
LexieOnRale wrote: » As a woman, faced with an unplanned pregnancy I'd ask myself the following - do I have the fathers support? - do I want it? - can I afford it? - is this the right time? - is having an abortion an option? If I answer no more than I answer yes, should I be forced to put my body, my physical and mental health through 9 months of stress and torture?
masculinist wrote: » Theres 2 bodies there right up to the moment of birth. its not a question of belief
somefeen wrote: » You seem to be the one who is failing to grasp logic. From what I've extracted from your posts you have one point; that abortion should be available where the pregnancy was the result of rape or is a threat to the mother's life. Why you feel the need to wrap such a basic point in fluff and absurd analogies is beyond me. As is your belief that you are being selectively quoted when asked a basic question that is at the heart of the debate. While we're at it, calling someone a hypocrite is a true or false statement that can be argued. Name calling is using a term like 'SJW' for people you don't agree with. You are a hypocrite if you believe 'promiscuous' women should not be allowed abortion but 'promiscuous' men should be allowed to walk away without responsibility. Maybe that is not your belief, but you seem to have put more effort into appearing intelligent and enlightened with your writing than you did on being clear.
gizmo81 wrote: » Do you see what you are doing here, you are forcing victimhood onto women to assuage your morality. As long as the woman is a victim abortion is ok but she be damned if she is in total control of herself, her body and her decisions.
notjustsweet wrote: » Come back to me when you can answer what was asked without your nasty comments please.
masculinist wrote: » What about a man facing an unplanned pregnancy ? What if he cant afford it and if its not the right time for him ? What if he doesnt have the mothers support in things like access , and access to his wallet etc ? Thats 18 plus years of torture for him or even longer if the kid goes to college. The feminists who demand he either ''keeps it in his pants'' or ''mans up'' and pays child support dont have any demands of adult women who consented to that situation and are morally and ethically responsible for it.
Barbie! wrote: » me_right_one wrote: » Even if that means killing someone else's body? Woman's body-Woman's choice. The fetus is not a person till its born. Up to about 25 weeks it wouldn't survive without the mother so it is part of her and if she doesn't want that part of her anymore thats her choice.
me_right_one wrote: » Even if that means killing someone else's body?
masculinist wrote: What about a man facing an unplanned pregnancy ? What if he cant afford it and if its not the right time for him ? What if he doesnt have the mothers support in things like access , and access to his wallet etc ? Thats 18 plus years of torture for him or even longer if the kid goes to college. The feminists who demand he either ''keeps it in his pants'' or ''mans up'' and pays child support dont have any demands of adult women who consented to that situation and are morally and ethically responsible for it.
LexieOnRale wrote: » ultimately a man does not have to go through the physical trauma of pregnancy or childbirth, nor the mental stress that goes with it. The woman is 100% alone here. We have no right to push her to put her body through that and it isn't comparable to a man having to open his wallet for the next 18 years, I'm sorry
masculinist wrote: » I wouldn't agree with that. When I heard the news that I was going to become a dad, the little finger in one of my hands went numb immediately and for months. Doctors still have no explanation. My blood pressure , heart rate , body fat, bloodwork etc is perfect. I then cut back a lifestyle where I went away for the weekend, Prague , Berlin , etc etc 15 or more times a year to working every hour I could get so she can have a nice home and go to a nice school, afterschools etc. I then went and looked for huge levels of life insurance because I cant go wandering around the world carefree about what I leave behind any longer. I took responsibility for my baby. The level of stress is directly related to what type of person you are. People who dont care about their kids dont have any stress. And feminists think the worst of men who are supposed to ''man up'' and ''keep it in their pants''. But a woman can just walk away any time she wants, drop the kid into an orphanage etc while being offended at any suggestion that she has a responsibility towards anyone but herself .
masculinist wrote: » I can only tolerate hormonal type arguments from women who are actually pregnant.
judeboy101 wrote: » Unrestricted abortions up to 12 weeks, good bye special olympics
LexieOnRale wrote: » Did you want the baby?
jaja321 wrote: » Majority of CA vote for abortion without restriction as to reason. A far more progressive vote than many on the repeal side could have hoped for.
masculinist wrote: » I wanted to be a good dad and take responsibility for the consequences of my actions which I did. I think women should do the equivalent, to be good mothers and take responsibility for their actions. If they think their partner isnt a good person or cant support a child then they need to reconsider the morality of creating an innocent human life with the intentions of snuffing it out because it doesnt suit their lifestyle and pasttimes. The typical sjw/feminist argument is to immediately switch to personal attacks. If you disagree with them then youre a terrible person. Emotional arguments wont sway intelligent people who matter. Logic should wing the decision and nothing else. Theres an awful lot of ad hominem and intentionally misread posts on this thread coupled with emotional claims of being ''insulted'' by an expectation that adult women should be responsible adults. Maybe this overemotional reaction is due to guilt which cant be expressed because its ignored - guilt at creating an innocent human life with the intentions of snuffing it out because it doesnt suit their lifestyle and pasttimes. Maybe some have already had an abotion and dont want to face the reality of what they did . Its all irrelevant to the fact that at some point you have to face the facts that theres 2 bodies at stake and when that second body was invited in then this isnt some sort of game or situation where one can avoid responsibility.
AtomicHorror wrote: » Odd, all the countries with abortion still seem to send athletes to the Special Olympics.
infogiver wrote: » Just not Downs Syndrome
BabyCheeses wrote: » Majority support abortion up to 12 weeks without reason. Support in cases of rape and FFA. I think there's going to be a meltdown but not as the OP thought.
somefeen wrote: » We've been arguing about this for what, 20 years now?
tigger123 wrote: » On the one hand you're criticizing people for not entering into an online debate in a mature manner, and on the other hand you're deliberately using language to goad those who would argue against you.
