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The JBL Bullying Thread

briany

JBL making WWE's anti-bullying campaign look a total joke at the moment. Here's a tweet of his from today.

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Monokne

ERG89 wrote: »

They aren't cause Matt spent his money on retaining the rights to it, he's not going to hand that over to WWE to make money off. The delete chants are louder than basically any other crowd reactions on Raw.

Matt does not own that gimmick. It's in a legal squabble between he and Impact. They would use it in a heartbeat if they could.

nacho libre

During CM Punk's pipe bomb rant, was his microphone being turned off scripted? It seemed he was just about to tell an interesting story that would corroborate the idea of a culture of bullying that started at the very top. I guess Vince likes JBL because he's a man's man - except when he is being petty on twitter and whining in a tv interview about someone being recognised as a better announcer than he is.
Although i have to say i like JBL's commentary. Though he is no Bobby Heenan. He made crappy matches tolerable because of his great mic skills.

WinnyThePoo

It's a work buddy.

Monokne

Meltzer responded to a fan on Twitter saying that with the mainstream pub the story is getting, he anticipates there will be some type of resolution. IE they won't be able to just ignore it and move on.

beakerjoe

Monokne wrote: »

Meltzer responded to a fan on Twitter saying that with the mainstream pub the story is getting, he anticipates there will be some type of resolution. IE they won't be able to just ignore it and move on.

Id say this is going down the legal route.

Mauro isnt saying anything, his friends arent giving any details either and Ill say we wont hear anything until Mauro's contract is up in August. Dave has said we might not hear anything on this story for months and I think he is implying we wont hear anything until Mauro is out of contract.

I do wonder will/or can WWE try keep him under contract after August in similar way they kept Rey Mysterio on for longer.

Pentecost

beakerjoe wrote: »

Id say this is going down the legal route.

Mauro isnt saying anything, his friends arent giving any details either and Ill say we wont hear anything until Mauro's contract is up in August. Dave has said we might not hear anything on this story for months and I think he is implying we wont hear anything until Mauro is out of contract.

I do wonder will/or can WWE try keep him under contract after August in similar way they kept Rey Mysterio on for longer.

And Daniel Bryan. I wonder if they have a similar "freezing clause" for announcers? Mightn't be valuable enough.

sky88

beakerjoe wrote: »

Id say this is going down the legal route.

Mauro isnt saying anything, his friends arent giving any details either and Ill say we wont hear anything until Mauro's contract is up in August. Dave has said we might not hear anything on this story for months and I think he is implying we wont hear anything until Mauro is out of contract.

I do wonder will/or can WWE try keep him under contract after August in similar way they kept Rey Mysterio on for longer.

i wouldnt think theyd be able to do that for announcers as its more of if a wrestler is injured they can claim that theyve missed time i believe ROH did something similarr with adam cole recently

Lord TSC

Depending on circumstances, even getting out of his WWE contract might not be enough to see him spill the beans.

Both because he might opt for a legal case (losing his job because of an unfit working environment, blah blah), or he might get a new job which won't appreciate if he's launching public attacks on his old one (you think, for example, UFC would want to hire someone who is embroiled in a public spat?). Or just sheer professionalism from him

beakerjoe

I really think JBL will be fine until more details come out. Bill DeMott feel on his sword only after most of the details of his hazing of new guys came out. Until the details come out, Id imagine JBL will still have a job. Id imagine JBL is better protected than Demott too.

It will also come down to what JBL actual did.

There's a certain logic to giving new guys/ younger wrestlers a hard time, that I don't disagree with.

In realtion to the younger guys, new recruits, WWE is going to be putting a lot of time and energy into them if they are to succeed, so if they don't have it mentally or physically, it really is best to see what they are made of to a certain degree. Not doing so just breeds a locker room of idealistic kids who've watched a lot of WWE when they were young and just don't have it, wasting the time of those that do.

However that line gets blurred and abused massively by guys who have serious issues, like JBL/DeMott who seem to be appointed assessors of the new recruits. Guys who take pleasure in humiliating, hurting and degrading others just to feel better about themselves.

Having said that, two sides to every story and all, and I'd love to see if we'll hear anything more about what JBL actually did to Mauro.

A guy like Coach, would strike me as a man who would be similar to Mauro in terms of being considered an outsider when initially joining WWE and would be a prime candidate to be hazed/bullied IMO.

Hes mentioned a few times of what he went through in WWE (being ripped as he puts it) and believes its fine and he comes across like a man they would push to his limits.

There's always the possibility that this is a gross exaggeration by a Mauro who may be hyper sensitive.

Many are still assuming JBL should be fired without knowing the full facts, that I believe is unfair.

Is JBL capable of crossing the line between testing someone and down right bullying them? yes.

But until we know what JBL did, its unfair to judge him on his past alone.
__________________

briany

beakerjoe wrote: »

In realtion to the younger guys, new recruits, WWE is going to be putting a lot of time and energy into them if they are to succeed, so if they don't have it mentally or physically, it really is best to see what they are made of to a certain degree.

I believe they do that in their training, when they go out to work matches or deliver promos, and possibly also by withstanding the schedule that a touring wrestler has to put up with. If you can do those things successfully, you have money making potential, and in a business where it comes down to butts in seats, that constitutes 'it', imo.

How a wrestler earns respect in the locker room is another matter, but in all the shoot interviews I've watched, I've gleaned that respect is fostered through respect shown. You say hello, you shake hands, you especially show consideration to the veterans. Then you show you can do your job. The breed of wrestler who actively takes it upon themselves to victimise new talent appears to be relatively rare, and they're often quite divisive figures in the business and among fans (e.g. New Jack and Ole Anderson).

beakerjoe

briany wrote: »

How a wrestler earns respect in the locker room is another matter, but in all the shoot interviews I've watched, I've gleaned that respect is fostered through respect shown. You say hello, you shake hands, you especially show consideration to the veterans. Then you show you can do your job. The breed of wrestler who actively takes it upon themselves to victimise new talent appears to be relatively rare, and they're often quite divisive figures in the business and among fans (e.g. New Jack and Ole Anderson).

While I agree that that is all part of it, nearly every book by a wrestler will have a piece where said wrestler gets put through the paces over a certain period to see how tough they were or if they were one of the boys. Respect in lets say was given by more than just respect shown.

But yeah, some are obviously victimized, tormented and bullied until they hate the business.

Lord TSC

Per the Wretling Observer

At press time, neither Ranallo nor WWE have made any statements on the case past WWE saying Ranallo is under contract through 8/12. Ranalloâ€™s contract doesnâ€™t allow him to give unauthorized interviews on WWE and the belief is that WWE is working hard to come to a settlement that would include an agreement that he not publicly talk about the issue

beakerjoe

Lord TSC wrote: »

Per the Wretling Observer

At press time, neither Ranallo nor WWE have made any statements on the case past WWE saying Ranallo is under contract through 8/12. Ranalloâ€™s contract doesnâ€™t allow him to give unauthorized interviews on WWE and the belief is that WWE is working hard to come to a settlement that would include an agreement that he not publicly talk about the issue

So the problem just goes away.

LeeJM

I would say some kind of settlement is likely with some $$$ going to Mauro to never speak publicly about it as well as early release from his contract and whatever non compete clause waived. And if Mauros lawyers are really good maybe a clause that within a certain period of time JBL is removed from the company after Mauro has gone.

Mauro can then go to work for NJPW/AXS again or UFC if thats on the table. I just cant see this going the legal route as it would cost Mauro a tonne personally and put off perspective employers while we all know how good Jerry McDevitt is when it comes to defending WWE in any legal situation.

briany

In the hypothetical scenario that Ranallo was unduly vicimised by JBL and/or other parties within the company, he has plenty of other avenues to pursue in his career, and his departure from the WWE would very much be WWE's loss.

LeeJM

briany wrote: »

In the hypothetical scenario that Ranallo was unduly vicimised by JBL and/or other parties within the company, he has plenty of other avenues to pursue in his career, and his departure from the WWE would very much be WWE's loss.

See this is something that nobody feels comfortable talking about because other things are more important right now but ultimately Mauro wont be missed in WWE. He is a really good play by play man and will always have work elsewhere but he has never really fit the WWE style. Long term Tom Phillips is the right man to call Smackdown and is Michael Coles hand chosen successor because he is exactly what a WWE play by play man needs to be.

Monokne

beakerjoe wrote: »

A guy like Coach, would strike me as a man who would be similar to Mauro in terms of being considered an outsider when initially joining WWE and would be a prime candidate to be hazed/bullied IMO.

Hes mentioned a few times of what he went through in WWE (being ripped as he puts it) and believes its fine and he comes across like a man they would push to his limits.

This would be the same Jonathan Coachman who said this in 2014:

"Basically, Jerry Brisco came up to me in 2001 in Fayetteville, North Carolina, and he said he wanted me to run a football pool. $10 to pick all the games, and everybody did it. And I started on a Tuesday, it was a Smackdown taping, I'll never forget it. I had my own room I did interviews in, and all the sudden two cops show up. They were very serious, and said I understand you're running a gambling pool. You sold one to one of our undercover cops here. It's a felony in North Carolina and we're going to have to take you in. So we're walking down the hallway, and we stop in front of Vince's office, and they said we should probably let him know because you're not going to be here for a while. We walk in and it's Vince, Triple H, Stephanie, The Rock, Kevin Dunn and Jerry Brisco. I should have known that, with Jerry in the room, something was going on, but I was so terrified because I was 26 years old. The real cops proceeded to tell Vince they've caught me in a gambling pool and we need to take him downtown. Vince got in my face, and he was an inch away from my nose. He was cursing, telling me my priorities were bad, and spending company time to run a gambling pool. This entire riff lasted 45 minutes. At the end of the office bit, the officer said it was $1,500 to get me out, and Vince said F-no, he's on his own. They handcuffed me, and I asked if there was anything I could put over my face. Vince threw me a pair of sweaty gym shorts that got stuck on my face. I walked out of the office and the first person I see is The Undertaker. He looks at me with shock, and it was so real because no one else was in on it except those people in the office. They walked me out, and all the fans could see me and they drove me about a mile down the road, and got a call on the radio that they had to come back to pick up something. They turn around, come back, and everyone's there with Vince in front of everybody laughing their asses off. Greatest rip in the history of the business, and for about 10 minutes I literally walked to a place in the building and started crying. I thought my career was over. I thought how can I tell my dad I got fired over a $10 football pool."

If I went to work and your co-workers played this prank and you and you ended up spending ten minutes hiding in a corner of the office and crying, I would not consider that 'fine' and nor, I feel comfortable saying, would most people.

In the real world that's bullying.

Coachman probably has Stockholm Syndrome from being there so long, and he's also got to hedge his bets because ESPN is cutting back on staff so much at the moment that he may be looking for work very soon.

Monokne

LeeJM wrote: »

I would say some kind of settlement is likely with some $$$ going to Mauro to never speak publicly about it as well as early release from his contract and whatever non compete clause waived. And if Mauros lawyers are really good maybe a clause that within a certain period of time JBL is removed from the company after Mauro has gone.

Mauro can then go to work for NJPW/AXS again or UFC if thats on the table. I just cant see this going the legal route as it would cost Mauro a tonne personally and put off perspective employers while we all know how good Jerry McDevitt is when it comes to defending WWE in any legal situation.

Important to note Mauro is under a non exclusive contract. He will be calling boxing on April 22nd. If there is a non compete, it would only be for pro wrestling, and the only avenue he would have in that field is NJPW who don't have a spot for him until next year anyway.

I would not be shocked to see it turn litigious. If there are witnesses or evidence that suggests Mauro has been mistreated, he would have a huge case. Del Rio was able to get an unconditional release based on the fact he had witnesses that saw Cody Barbierri use ethnic slurs towards him, when WWE initially imposed a one year no compete.

It's important to be aware that the game here is not what's 'right' or 'wrong', it's avoiding bad pub. Mainstream outlets have picked up on this and if that snowballs, they will act. Meltzer noted that SI and a couple of the other sites that have written about this have contacted Be a Star and some of the other companies WWE is in bed with, who have so far not commented. All it takes is one sponsor to turn the heat up and things change quickly, like Daniel Bryan found out in 2010 when he choked Justin Roberts.

Monokne

Very good piece on Bradshaw's behaviour. Pretty appalling when you see it laid out in one place:

http://www.fightful.com/jbl-and-wwes-culture-hazing-bullying-oral-history

CSF

Yeah that is horrific. Morons like Bradshaw, Bob Holly and the human cretin that was Chris Benoit make the world a worse off place.

And what's worse is you then have these other morons on the internet who have probably not been in a fight since secondary school, but will talk about how they understand the need for this kind of thing.

F*ck that ****. Ones worth is not determined by how much you behave like a lout. And dont forget Undertaker gets far too much of a free pass on this, despite him showing previously to be just as nasty a Neanderthal person deep down.

764dak

Monokne wrote: »

This would be the same Jonathan Coachman who said this in 2014:

"Basically, Jerry Brisco came up to me in 2001 in Fayetteville, North Carolina, and he said he wanted me to run a football pool. $10 to pick all the games, and everybody did it. And I started on a Tuesday, it was a Smackdown taping, I'll never forget it. I had my own room I did interviews in, and all the sudden two cops show up. They were very serious, and said I understand you're running a gambling pool. You sold one to one of our undercover cops here. It's a felony in North Carolina and we're going to have to take you in. So we're walking down the hallway, and we stop in front of Vince's office, and they said we should probably let him know because you're not going to be here for a while. We walk in and it's Vince, Triple H, Stephanie, The Rock, Kevin Dunn and Jerry Brisco. I should have known that, with Jerry in the room, something was going on, but I was so terrified because I was 26 years old. The real cops proceeded to tell Vince they've caught me in a gambling pool and we need to take him downtown. Vince got in my face, and he was an inch away from my nose. He was cursing, telling me my priorities were bad, and spending company time to run a gambling pool. This entire riff lasted 45 minutes. At the end of the office bit, the officer said it was $1,500 to get me out, and Vince said F-no, he's on his own. They handcuffed me, and I asked if there was anything I could put over my face. Vince threw me a pair of sweaty gym shorts that got stuck on my face. I walked out of the office and the first person I see is The Undertaker. He looks at me with shock, and it was so real because no one else was in on it except those people in the office. They walked me out, and all the fans could see me and they drove me about a mile down the road, and got a call on the radio that they had to come back to pick up something. They turn around, come back, and everyone's there with Vince in front of everybody laughing their asses off. Greatest rip in the history of the business, and for about 10 minutes I literally walked to a place in the building and started crying. I thought my career was over. I thought how can I tell my dad I got fired over a $10 football pool."

If I went to work and your co-workers played this prank and you and you ended up spending ten minutes hiding in a corner of the office and crying, I would not consider that 'fine' and nor, I feel comfortable saying, would most people.

In the real world that's bullying.

Coachman probably has Stockholm Syndrome from being there so long, and he's also got to hedge his bets because ESPN is cutting back on staff so much at the moment that he may be looking for work very soon.

This also happens a lot in the NBA and the NFL.

This NFL Coach got police to arrest a player for an unpaid hotel bill:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8nM-3C3Y4I
An NBA team filled a rookie's whole apartment with popcorn:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hH4HumfEGGQ
Another NBA team with the help of radio stations made a player think the team fired him:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHMh0H546lY

Also, a few years an NFL team's coaches told a player to toughen up another by bullying.

It's a problem in professional sports and sports entertainment.

Chain Smoker

CSF wrote: »

F*ck that ****. Ones worth is not determined by how much you behave like a lout. And dont forget Undertaker gets far too much of a free pass on this, despite him showing previously to be just as nasty a Neanderthal person deep down.

What're the undertaker stories? Beyond the kangaroo court silliness, I mean.

I've always thought he was more like the huge guy in a school that thinks he's cool as f*ck but is actually just a bit oblivious to how afraid everyone is of him. Quite thin skinned and a bit weird about his adherence to the code (all the nonsense about shaking hands and the like).
He always comes across as a bit of a loser in promos and in his general idea of what cool is, but I haven't seen anything in the way of bully vibes.

Neil3030

Losing a lot of respect for Cornette, given his views on this. His general point is along the lines of 'why didn't Mauro threaten Bradshaw with something like a tire iron to get him to stop'. :rolleyes:

Adiboo

Chain Smoker wrote: »

What're the undertaker stories? Beyond the kangaroo court silliness, I mean.

I've always thought he was more like the huge guy in a school that thinks he's cool as f*ck but is actually just a bit oblivious to how afraid everyone is of him. Quite thin skinned and a bit weird about his adherence to the code (all the nonsense about shaking hands and the like).
He always comes across as a bit of a loser in promos and in his general idea of what cool is, but I haven't seen anything in the way of bully vibes.

Google Undertaker Chris Kanyon

Monokne

Nothing significant comes up. Video of a chairshot was about the extent of if. No news stories that I could find.

Ben Gadot

Taker always seemed like the wise and normal head in the locker room but there's no excusing his treatment of Kenyon. He shat on DDP as well.

That coach gambling pool story is just horrific.

They like to proliferate the story that these type of incidents have been consigned to history but obviously not.

Lord TSC

Neil3030 wrote: »

Losing a lot of respect for Cornette, given his views on this. His general point is along the lines of 'why didn't Mauro threaten Bradshaw with something like a tire iron to get him to stop'. :rolleyes:

This is the main problem with this sort of behaviour; those who dish it out quite simply do not understand that not everyone is like them. They don't realize that being "alpha", or whatever other BS way you want to describe it, is an excuse for mentally torturing people. They lack the ability to see just how horrible behaviour like that can make people's lives. Worse, when it comes from above, from management, there's zero chance to change either. Its disgusting and really freaks me out. :mad:

[Deleted User]

Ben Gadot wrote: »

That coach gambling pool story is just horrific.

.

I think its quite funny to be honest, a few of the stories are. I guess we just live in a world now where these sort of things cant ever happen due to everyone being so politically correct.

Moist Bread

Ah, here's the "It's political correctness gone mad" post.

Neil3030

A once off rib like the Coachman story is actually quite funny. I'd say those kind of pranks can be good for morale, provided everyone gets something as a once off, and the rib lasts no longer than an hour, and it's at a time when guys are just killing time anyway, and no personal property is damaged, and everyone can have laugh about it afterwards. You know yourself what constitutes a good prank that everyone can enjoy.

But consistently picking on guys until they snap and get violent or leave the company, is something completely different. As is stealing people's passports and altering their travel arrangements, or destroying their property. That's getting into a prison mentality level of bullying, i.e. preying on the weak and asserting dominance.