dd972 wrote: The Irish education system is widely acknowledged as one of the best in Europe, certainly better than the English comprehensive one so what's the story with skangers/scobes/scumbags whatever you call them, is there some lower strata of duff schools that churn them out or something?
sup_dude wrote: » Even if it isn't the parent's fault? What if the parents aren't on social welfare? Is it only the parents on social that have disruptive kids that can be punished, or is it only parents on social that have distruptive kids? Is it if all their kids are distruptive? I mean if they have two well behaved kids and one not, is it still docked? What is going to partly solve the problem is people not making silly kneejerk calls like that, and actually figuring out and addressing the root of the problems. Alas, this is AH so dole cuts for all, common sense for none!
biko wrote: » Two opinions/statements, no sources. The education system has indeed failed.
Sleepy wrote: » Some of the kids you're refering to aren't even fed breakfast before they're dragged to school. In most walks of life the carrot works better than the stick so perhaps we should explore incentivising the parents in socially deprived circumstances? €500 bonus in your social welfare if your child achieves a moderately high Junior Cert? €1000 for anyone on welfare whose child achieves over 500 points in the leaving? It may seem like an odd use of taxpayers money but I think it'd make a good investment - better educated citizens almost always end up paying more taxes.
bodhrandude wrote: » OP they are all over the place, not just in Ireland, Neds (non-educated delinquents) in Scotland, chavs in England. Guess what? America has them too.
CoolHandBandit wrote: Nice over reaction. Where did i say dole cuts for all.
reason vs religion wrote: » Red_Wake wrote: » 1) As most schools are owned by RCC, not gonna happen, not sure if this happens in Educate Together? 2)So you're replacing Catholicism with Philosophy - I'd argue you're just changing your dogma, as Philosophy has as many schools of thought as religion 3) Latin is even less useful than Irish, bear in mind that while Irish has no private sector employment AFAIK, as an EU language there are jobs in it as EU admins, as well as catering to the recreational Irish speakers[of which there are a few 4)What you're proposing is basically students going into FAS rather than university, a friend of mine is on an apprenticeship sponsored by FAS to become an electrician. 5) Paying public servants more has never fixed an irish public service, and never will. 6)Covered through the SNA program for schools, which employs over 10,000 SNAs to help disadvantaged kids[425 million is the annual budget for this program] Might want to detail your other suggestions, seem the ones listed above are either nonsense or already implemented. 1. It's a set of hypothetical suggestions. 2. Philosophy is clearly not a dogma. I don't think any more needs being said in this regard. 3. Latin was obviously not proposed for its usefulness as a conversational language. The benefits of learning Latin are widely-known. 4. The proposal would be to bring vocational training into the mainstream, in the process legitimising it. Hope your mate's getting on well. 5. Public servants are not paid based on performance, which is what was suggested. 6. The SNA system is inadequate. You wear your obnoxious arrogance like an ill-fitting suit.
Red_Wake wrote: » 1) As most schools are owned by RCC, not gonna happen, not sure if this happens in Educate Together? 2)So you're replacing Catholicism with Philosophy - I'd argue you're just changing your dogma, as Philosophy has as many schools of thought as religion 3) Latin is even less useful than Irish, bear in mind that while Irish has no private sector employment AFAIK, as an EU language there are jobs in it as EU admins, as well as catering to the recreational Irish speakers[of which there are a few 4)What you're proposing is basically students going into FAS rather than university, a friend of mine is on an apprenticeship sponsored by FAS to become an electrician. 5) Paying public servants more has never fixed an irish public service, and never will. 6)Covered through the SNA program for schools, which employs over 10,000 SNAs to help disadvantaged kids[425 million is the annual budget for this program] Might want to detail your other suggestions, seem the ones listed above are either nonsense or already implemented.
team_actimel wrote: » More like a bonus to those who achieve over 300 points. 500 points would be a bit of a reach I'd say. I don't know many in socially deprived circumstances who even got much than 250 points. Most of those who were from deprived backgrounds tended to do Leaving Cert Applied anyway.
team_actimel wrote: » There were a fair few skangers in my school in the country and they got the same level of education as the rest of us (in primary school anyway). For some reason they didn't listen or absorb even the most basic of grammatical English. You only have to take a look at some of their Facebook pages and the lessons of punctuation and grammar seemed to have passed them by. "im full time mommy to 2 beautifull angles who I luv ta bits nd wud do anyting for i like to enjoy life and am a mad ting"
Sleepy wrote: » Some of the kids you're refering to aren't even fed breakfast before they're dragged to school. In most walks of life the carrot works better than the stick so perhaps we should explore incentivising the parents in socially deprived circumstances? €500 bonus in your social welfare if your child achieves a moderately high Junior Cert? €1000 for anyone on welfare whose child achieves over 500 points in the leaving? It may seem like an odd use of taxpayers money but I think it'd make a good investment - better educated citizens almost always end up paying more taxes.
Richard Hillman wrote: » You'll get all of these do-gooder groups saying it will put too much pressure on the kids and stuff. Turning kids into feeble beings that cannot deal with pressure is good for business with these group's.
Mrs OBumble wrote: » Here's a source - which refers to internationally recongised primary resesrch: https://www.nala.ie/literacy/literacy-in-ireland Some key takeaways include one in six (18%) being functionally illiterate. And thats actually one of the better measures. There are problems with genetics for sure, but at least some of the blame for this lies with the education system being inadequate. Scangers are just the extreme end of the problem: kids born to uneducated families usually turn out the same unless theres an effective education system and a culture which allows people to change their social class. Ireland has neither.
Red_Wake wrote: » 1) Cop out response
Red_Wake wrote: » 2) There are multiple schools of thought in philosophy, which one would you teach? Whichever one was selected for teaching would become the new dogma.
Red_Wake wrote: » 3) What are these vague benefits?
Red_Wake wrote: » 4) Vocational training isn't mainstream due to sections of society viewing tradesmen as a lesser profession [something which I disagree with]. I don't see this as something the government is capable of fixing. As an aside, the last time trades were mainstream was the construction bubble.
Red_Wake wrote: » 5) Evaluating teachers is incredibly complex and the unions would freak out.
Red_Wake wrote: » 6) I'd argue it's taken advantage of by middle class schools[SNAs are more common in schools in privileged areas compared to underprivileged areas] rather than inadequate, given that the budget is astronomical. When you say inadequate, in what way do you consider it inadequate?
Wanderer78 wrote: » unfortunately our educational system isn great with dealing with complex problems such as mental health issues, complex behavioural problems, learning disabilities and personality disorders etc etc. people who have these issues are very likely to struggle in our educational system, some failing very badly and even leaving the system at an early stage. our system can in fact exacerbate these issues in some
Red_Wake wrote: » 1) Cop out response 2) There are multiple schools of thought in philosophy, which one would you teach? Whichever one was selected for teaching would become the new dogma. 3) What are these vague benefits? 4) Vocational training isn't mainstream due to sections of society viewing tradesmen as a lesser profession [something which I disagree with]. I don't see this as something the government is capable of fixing. As an aside, the last time trades were mainstream was the construction bubble. 5) Evaluating teachers is incredibly complex and the unions would freak out. 6) I'd argue it's taken advantage of by middle class schools[SNAs are more common in schools in privileged areas compared to underprivileged areas] rather than inadequate, given that the budget is astronomical. When you say inadequate, in what way do you consider it inadequate? Feel free to include more vague condemnations and personal insults in your response:angel:
