Kerrydude1981 wrote: » But it comes down to this, in 30 years time,people will be still talking about the likes of the great players of the 60s/70s and the likes of the great players I grew up watching and some I am still still watching,Martin O Connell,Colm O Rourke,Maurice Fitz,Stephen O Brien,Peter Cannavan,Trevor Giles,Seamus Moynihan Padraig Joyce,Diarmuid Connolly,The Brogans,the O Se's, Colm Cooper the list is endless, Brolly will be remembered for blowing kisses
Stoner wrote: » He'll be remembered for this work on RTE and giving away a kidney (I think) over football now alright. His performance last night has dominated the Kerry thread when you should be analysing a win. He could have waited until another day.
Powerhouse wrote: It doesn't really come down to that. Brolly never made any claims as to his own ability as a player.
Stoner wrote: » He'll be remembered for this work on RTE and giving away a kidney (I think) over football now alright.
Stoner wrote: » It does though, it was his timing.
TheCitizen wrote: » Much prefer Brolly as a pundit to Tomas O Se. Even though I wouldn't always agree with Brolly, he is interesting and at times is on the button and will say things others won't. Whereas OSe is a bit of a sycophant. Brolly is right about Cooper, a very talented player but not as good as some have made him out to be since he announced his retirement from inter county football.
Powerhouse wrote: » Couldn't agree more. Tomas O Se does the "I'm really sound" act very well, but Brolly is streets ahead in his broader appreciation of the game and his ability to hold and express interesting opinions. With O Se you could leave the television for ten minutes if he was talking safe in the knowledge that he will not have said anything you wouldn't have wanted to miss.
Kerrydude1981 wrote: » Cooper got 5 points in 05 and 6 points in 08 finals Now if any forward kicks that on an All Ireland day and his team loses he would be the last fella you would blame or in Brollys case point the finger at for losing
Powerhouse wrote: » Did Tomas O Se not point this out? After all according to people here he won the argument.
jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: » Seriously, stop and start a thread elsewhere. Or go for a walk.
Powerhouse wrote: » What gives you the right to decide who can and cannot contribute here?
jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: » Keep going so.
Powerhouse wrote: » To be honest I don't need your go-ahead either way. Why not just reply to what you want to reply to and ignore what you don't - same as everyone else?
jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: » Do ye want to start an RTE pundit thread there lads? Clogging the Kerry thread up with nonsense. On yesterday's match. Obviously it's early in the year, both teams aren't fully fit and both teams missing players who will start come summer. Kerry have found a few good options in Barry and Morley especially as their running gives the Dubs something to think about and aren't as static as Maher and Aidan Mah were over the last couple of years. Thought Kerry were wasteful at times and the ball in to Geaney was easily cleared up in the first half. Philly McMahon is still being tracked by his opposite number which is a major problem, Savage had to track back far too much. If James O'D is starting he can't be doing that kind of work and be a scoring threat at the same time. In midfield the Dubs broke away nearly all kickouts in the first half as our midfielders were waiting under the ball. We need to be moving into space on kickouts if possible. Kealy? I don't know lads, he has to go. He had his usual collapse near the end of the game on kickouts. Geaney and Moran really stood up. I think we're still short of what is required to win Sam but we're moving in the right direction.
mystic86 wrote: » Powerhouse, DDC1990 answered your drivel in post 9140! Now, can you do the decent thing and let us be happy in this thread? To everyone else, just trying to get my head around the exact age profile of the team, what age are the following players: Griffin Shanahan Barry Savage McCarthy G Crowley Spillane Thanks.
Boom__Boom wrote: » Griffin - turned 26 last week Shanahan 26 Barry 24 Savage 23 McCarthy 23 G Crowley 23 Spillane 23 Not 100% sure on all of these but would be around the 90% sure, based on when they were playing U21 and minor.
DDC1990 wrote: » Gooch played Tyrone 4 times in championship football. In 2003 (at 18) he kicked 1 point. In 2005 he kicked 5 points (joint top scorer) In 2008 he kicked 6 points (top scorer) In 2012 he kicked 5 points (top scorer) It's up to you if you'd rather blindly listen to Brolly and take what he says as gospel or you'd rather do a bit of research yourself and see that Brolly is taking absolute bollox. Brolly is going to great lengths to lie about Cooper and his legacy for some bizzare reason. He claimed Tyrone never double marked Cooper last night. Absolutely laughable. His point generally seems to be, Kerry lost 3 games against Tyrone. Cooper is Kerrys most important player. Ergo Cooper isn't a leader because Kerry didn't win. If Declan O'Sullivan slots that late goal in 2008 is Cooper now suddenly the greatest footballer of his generation, because Kerry would have won and Cooper would have been top scorer? Whats funnier is the fact that he dismisses all the teams that Kerry ever beat as terrible teams, when it was the brilliance of Cooper, Moynihan, Ó Sé (X3) and O'Sullivan who made those teams look ordinary. But when Kerry lose it's because Gooch isn't a leader. Listen to regard in which he is held by every last one of his teammates, from club to county to country. That tells you more about his leadership than Joe Brolly will ever know.
jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: » I've reported u for derailing this thread and the match thread. I'll leave it to the mods, a chat about the game might break out yet.[/QUOTE Ah let's be honest here, you had no problem with people "derailing" this thread when they were saying what you wanted to read about the Cooper discussion on League Sunday. I took the contrarian angle that Brolly was entitled to a hearing which didn't suit you. That's why you were telling me to leave. That's why you report to the mods. Let's not dress it up as a major desire to chat about the match. It's a "Kerry GAA discussion thread" - talk about Colm Cooper and discussion around his retirement surely qualifies as that. How could that possibly be "derailing" a "Kerry GAA discussion thread". Maybe you need to rename it? Alternatively you could ignore my posts and get on with your own opinions if you were so inclined.
Powerhouse wrote: » I think Brolly's point is that Cooper would have been incapable of carrying a team in the way that say Peter Canavan carried Tyrone in 1995. Whether that makes him a lesser footballer is another matter.
DDC1990 wrote: » Gooch played Tyrone 4 times in championship football. In 2003 (at 20) he kicked 1 point. In 2005 he kicked 5 points (joint top scorer) In 2008 he kicked 6 points (top scorer) In 2012 he kicked 5 points (top scorer) It's up to you if you'd rather blindly listen to Brolly and take what he says as gospel or you'd rather do a bit of research yourself and see that Brolly is taking absolute bollox. Brolly is going to great lengths to lie about Cooper and his legacy for some bizzare reason. He claimed Tyrone never double marked Cooper last night. Absolutely laughable. His point generally seems to be, Kerry lost 3 games against Tyrone. Cooper is Kerrys most important player. Ergo Cooper isn't a leader because Kerry didn't win. If Declan O'Sullivan slots that late goal in 2008 is Cooper now suddenly the greatest footballer of his generation, because Kerry would have won and Cooper would have been top scorer? Whats funnier is the fact that he dismisses all the teams that Kerry ever beat as terrible teams, when it was the brilliance of Cooper, Moynihan, Ó Sé (X3) and O'Sullivan who made those teams look ordinary. But when Kerry lose it's because Gooch isn't a leader. Listen to the regard in which he is held by every last one of his teammates, from club to county to country. That tells you more about his leadership than Joe Brolly will ever know.
MayoAreMagic wrote: » That kind of logic doesn't stand up though. It seems to centre on one game where he played very well and scored a lot, but Tyrone in 95 were basically a one man team, Kerry in the 00s weren't like that, they had scorers all over the place. Like Conor Mortimer was the crux of mayo's attack and thus scored a lot, he was far from leading them anywhere though, it was mainly because mayo weren't a great side. Secondly canavan wasn't facing the type of defensive football and ethos towards spoiling tactics the gooch has faced for a decade and a half, so the comparison isn't really a good one, or a fair one, in many respects. Another issue is that Canavan played longer into the past, and so people remember his good games and tend to have forgotten his bad ones (just like every other great of the past). In reality the gooch's 11 point in 2 final haul is being dismissed because Kerry didn't win - which is ridiculous. Any man who kicks 6 points in a AIF will come away with the match ball 9 times out of 10. What makes it even more suspect is that tyrone didn't actually win in 95 either - and that Dublin team were no great shakes btw, but for some reason that isn't canavan's fault whereas the loss to tyrone is the fault of the gooch.. .
Powerhouse wrote: » Maybe cogent enough for you but that's because you cannot countenance under any circumstances any opinion which does not completely and utterly praise Gooch. Look critically at what was said - Brolly questioned Gooch against Tyrone (a team with a 3-0 record against Kerry in the championship over six seasons right when Kerry were at their peak) but O Se replied without mentioning Tyrone at all. He completely ignored the question.It is mind-boggling that some people here think O Se had the better of the argument. It would have served O Se better to watch the games against Tyrone again and have some kind of plausible reply for something Brolly was always going to bring up, rather than relying on apparently clever irrelevancies and smirks that will impress those who have already made up their minds but holds no water ultimately. He could have even questioned the word "influence" and questioned what precisely what Brolly meant by that and asked how that is measured. He might have pointed to Gooch's excellent creation of a goal against Tyrone in 2005. But maybe it's the prerogative of a multiple All Ireland winner to go into a discussion such as this underprepared operating off the top of your head and not able to discuss specifics. But it's probably a reality, as someone suggested, that Brolly's background counts for something in this case. He is used to the idea of evidence rather than high-stool smirks as a means of constructing an argument. O Se simply doesn't get that.
MayoAreMagic wrote: » That kind of logic doesn't stand up though. It seems to centre on one game where he played very well and scored a lot, but Tyrone in 95 were basically a one man team, Kerry in the 00s weren't like that, they had scorers all over the place. Like Conor Mortimer was the crux of mayo's attack and thus scored a lot, he was far from leading them anywhere though, it was mainly because mayo weren't a great side. Secondly canavan wasn't facing the type of defensive football and ethos towards spoiling tactics the gooch has faced for a decade and a half, so the comparison isn't really a good one, or a fair one, in many respects. Another issue is that Canavan played longer into the past, and so people remember his good games and tend to have forgotten his bad ones (just like every other great of the past). In reality the gooch's 11 point in 2 final haul is being dismissed because Kerry didn't win - which is ridiculous. Any man who kicks 6 points in a AIF will come away with the match ball 9 times out of 10. What makes it even more suspect is that tyrone didn't actually win in 95 either - and that Dublin team were no great shakes btw, but for some reason that isn't canavan's fault whereas the loss to tyrone is the fault of the gooch.. When you examine the argument, brolly has basically compared every perceived negative in the gooch's career (and any man who plays in about 10 all Ireland finals is always going to have some negatives) to one virtuoso display canavan put in in 1995. Which begs the obvious question, what about every other year of his career? For example, how about 2002 when they won the league then went out to Sligo in the qualifiers? Leadership eh? But no pundit wants to really go down the route of questioning canavan's career as a response, because frankly they know it is bs logic and don't want to sink to brolly's level. When you think about it, couldnt the exact same argument be made for say Michael Meehan's display against Kerry in the rain a few years ago? Again a team where all roads led to one man. Or indeed, any virtuoso display someone put on down the years? The whole thing is littered with flaws. You may say it gets people talking, and it does, but it also shows you don't know what you are talking about.
acequion wrote: » How on earth would you know what I can or "cannot countenance under any circumstances"? Do you know me personally? Because only somebody who knows a person personally can make a claim like that. That, in addition to your hyperbolic "It is mind boggling," is ample evidence that it is you who are the type of person who cannot countenance another opinion. And you seem to like evidence. I also told you that Brolly went on one of his rants and din't allow the others to get a word in edgeways. Despite that,O Shea rebutted with what I quoted earlier as well as to reasonably point out that Tyrone beat the entire Kerry team,not just Gooch. Brolly goes for controversy and probably knew he was OTT. Everyone realises that apart from yourself,it seems. So believe what you like.
