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Hyundai Ioniq 28kWh

cros13

So... Hyundai IONIQ details are stating to leak out.

28kWh LG Chem NCM pack (Though I've been told that this is actually a 30kWh pack but Hyundai are being conservative about depth of discharge)

Expected EPA range of ~170km, just a few km shy of the 30kWh Leaf.

Looks well equipped and pricing might be below the Leaf. Had hoped for more range though.

Rapid Charging will be CCS in Europe and CHAdeMO in Asia.
A test unit was spotted charging via CCS at a FastNed station back in November.

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unkel

250km done now in total. Drove the card hard again today over the mountains. And some stretches of motorway, usually a good bit above the speed limit. Sport mode only. Lots of maximum take offs. The regen in the mountains was unreal. Just coast down a gradual hill on regen 2 and you see -20kW, -30kW, -40kW and that wasn't even braking hard

And the car has done 13kWh/100km so far. Which is quite a bit lower than I expected for the way I've been driving it. It suggests a range of 215km. If you drive this car around the Dublin area mainly, and don't go over 100km/h on motorways and drive a bit less aggressive than I do, you should get 300km no bother. And that is quite shocking.

Had another free fast charge. Because I could

Got stopped at Garda checkpoint with the NCT / tax / insurance holder completely empty

Garda looks at me and asks: it's very new, isn't it? Told him it was then he asks if it was a hybrid, told him it was full electric and then he had loads of questions about charging and range etc.

unkel

mad m wrote: »

@Unkel

Well wear....was at energy show in RDS during week. They had few EV on show. Sat in the Tesla, lovely looking car. Some guy had a Deloran he bought for 10k and turned it into an EV.

When I had a 928 there was this dude in the US who had his converted to EV using lead acid batteries. That was a good few years ago. Today, converting classic cars to EV is huge business in the US.

Anyone see the recent wheeler dealers episode where they converted a Maserati Bi-Turbo to EV?

Water John

Another evangelist on the road. My OH thinks Kearys Cork should give her commission.

unkel

She is dead right. If a few people bought their car there because of her, she really should get commission. Not money but something like extras / free servicing.

Remember that Bjørn Nyland got a free brand new Tesla Model X worth €120k because he had several referrals?

Mope

@CarefulNow!: Feedback from test drive?
How much km was on the clock?

@unkel: thanks for write ups, really nice to see that car is driven and not looked at. Impressed with consumption figures, 13 is unbelievable with the way you drive

CarefulNow!

@mope didn't make it, had meeting that ran and ran, I rang to let them know and will test drive in couple of weeks.

Reading unkel I'm dying to get out in one, serious envy here. The joy in his writing is palpable

Mickeroo

unkel wrote: »

250km done now in total. Drove the card hard again today over the mountains. And some stretches of motorway, usually a good bit above the speed limit. Sport mode only. Lots of maximum take offs. The regen in the mountains was unreal. Just coast down a gradual hill on regen 2 and you see -20kW, -30kW, -40kW and that wasn't even braking hard

And the car has done 13kWh/100km so far. Which is quite a bit lower than I expected for the way I've been driving it. It suggests a range of 215km. If you drive this car around the Dublin area mainly, and don't go over 100km/h on motorways and drive a bit less aggressive than I do, you should get 300km no bother. And that is quite shocking.

Had another free fast charge. Because I could

Got stopped at Garda checkpoint with the NCT / tax / insurance holder completely empty Garda looks at me and asks: it's very new, isn't it? Told him it was then he asks if it was a hybrid, told him it was full electric and then he had loads of questions about charging and range etc.

Are you saying the car charges the battery while it coasts downhill?

Mope

You didn't know that?

Mope

CarefulNow! wrote: »

@mope didn't make it, had meeting that ran and ran, I rang to let them know and will test drive in couple of weeks.

Reading unkel I'm dying to get out in one, serious envy here. The joy in his writing is palpable

Sorry to hear that Carefulnow

unkel

Cheers lads

I haven't heard any noise from the brakes either, so the issue must have been addressed at the factory as the sales manager claimed (he said the VIN of my car did not bring up any recalls in his system)

Also I checked my software / firmware versions against the latest version an Irish based owner of an Ioniq was recently upgraded to, and I do indeed have the latest versions. I emailed my sales manager about checking this before getting the car, he said he had his service department check it and it came back as the latest version and again he was right

Pretty impressed that the fast chargers charge fast (ha!) all the way up to 94% and then just stop. Didn't think I would ever use FCP apart from driving long distance, but the location of the one near me is very convenient. I'm there or drive right past there nearly every day of the week and it's only 2km from my home anyway. Free juice :cool:

unkel

Mickeroo wrote: »

Are you saying the car charges the battery while it coasts downhill?

Oh yeah! And if I can believe the negative kW figures displayed, the party trick of the Ioniq must be the extremely efficient regen (of course on top of the 0.24 coefficient of drag, which is as good as any car for sale)

I was never convinced the Ioniq became the most efficient car ever tested by the EPA because its drive train was so vastly more efficient than other EVs. But maybe it is after all its regen capabilities?

unkel

Forgot to post earlier that I am not impressed at all that these so called Combo (CCS) charge points aren't really fecking combo at all. They might have 2 parking spaces but they can only charge one car at a time. If there is a CHAdeMO plugged in, the CCS doesn't work and vice versa. WTF? What's that about? It's beyond ridiculous! Is that another only in Ireland special? :mad:

Zoe on fast 22kW AC (the third tethered connector) can charge at the same time as a lady was doing before I hooked up this evening.

Gumbo

Mope wrote: »

The VESS is the sound which Ioniq is emitting for pedestrians imitating engine sound when you are doing speed under 30km/h (I think) so you are heard by people.

The Arrows below the car simply indicates that car is ready to be driven.

Enjoy your test drive, where are you doing it, which dealer?

The Leaf has the exact same icons. Wonder if it's a mandatory thing for EV's.

unkel

I was wondering about that myself this evening, kceire, when the above lady drove off in her Zoe and it was completely silent (no VESS obviously). She could have switched it off, of course.

Gumbo

unkel wrote: »

I was wondering about that myself this evening, kceire, when the above lady drove off in her Zoe and it was completely silent (no VESS obviously). She could have switched it off, of course.

I keep meaning to get herself to drive towards me with it on and off to see if it's any different.

When I want to run someone over, I'll turn it off just in case though.

Mope

There is a video on how it sounds up to 30km/h on Ioniq, with VESS on. Tbh not that loud... E-motor can be heard better than that sound...

Just a thought on this: I hope someone get's to know car inside out soon and know how to upload v8 or v12 sound track on to Ioniq

Water John

A big speaker growling, in place of the front grill.

liamog

unkel wrote: »

Zoe on fast 22kW AC (the third tethered connector) can charge at the same time as a lady was doing before I hooked up this evening.

There are two types of CCS Fast Chargers the EFACEC one which is really square, and the DBT which looks more modern.

The EFACEC allows an AC and DC to charge at the same time but apparently the DBTs don't.

The EFACECs seem to charge the Ioniq faster but that's probably due to our generally better DC charging system.

So far I've seen Blanch, Lucan, the Airport, Kilbeggan and Enfield East being EFACEC, whereas the M1/M50 Junction and Stillorgan Park & Ride were the DBT.

unkel

And neither of them allow a CHAdeMO and a CCS to charge at the same time? None of the Irish fast chargers can? If so that's pretty pathetic. Ireland has like about 20 CCS combos for 88k sq km, so 1 CCS combo charger for every area that is 70km wide and 70km tall. And for that huge area it can charge 1 car at a time. Pathetic.

Before I completely despair, will you make us that wrapper please?

liamog

Working on the phone app at the mo, seems pretty straightforward, though not sure how eCars will treat it

It's best to think of the Chademo/CCS as a two ends on the same extension lead.

unkel

I guess so. It has been a steep learning curve for me finding out about EVs in general in the last few months and some EVs in particular. I'm usually pretty realistic in what can and what can not be expected, but nothing I've read prepared me for this idiocy of one car only charging in one of the few charging stations in our capital city

In Norway (same population as Ireland) you can charge 20 cars at the same time. Why don't our politicians spend a little bit less time drinking beer in the US and a little bit more time looking at how Norway implemented solutions for Electric Vehicles?

Water John

Yeah, we just balls it up, every time.

cros13

liamog wrote: »

There are two types of CCS Fast Chargers the EFACEC one which is really square, and the DBT which looks more modern.

The EFACEC allows an AC and DC to charge at the same time but apparently the DBTs don't.

The EFACECs seem to charge the Ioniq faster but that's probably due to our generally better DC charging system.

So far I've seen Blanch, Lucan, the Airport, Kilbeggan and Enfield East being EFACEC, whereas the M1/M50 Junction and Stillorgan Park & Ride were the DBT.

Of the multi-standard rapids:

The DBTs were funded by the EU/UK RCN project and ESB only received four of them for installation on the east coast. The DBTs can't charge more than one vehicle at a time due to a poorly designed UI and the electrical engineering leaves much to be desired. They had serious CCS compatibility issues for a year after install, I had to loan my car to ESB for testing 'cause they had no other CCS vehicle available.

The ESB-operated network in the north has a few ABB triple standard rapids (which are the most reliable) which they inherited.

The efacecs are ESB standard triple-head rapid, more reliable than the DBTs but they have an occasional issue with the CCS comms board locking up, which requires a hard reset of the rapid charger (i.e. an engineer has to come out and cut power to the rapid, remote reboot only reboots the AMD geode-based board that provides the UI)

unkel wrote: »

And neither of them allow a CHAdeMO and a CCS to charge at the same time? None of the Irish fast chargers can? If so that's pretty pathetic. Ireland has like about 20 CCS combos for 88k sq km, so 1 CCS combo charger for every area that is 70km wide and 70km tall. And for that huge area it can charge 1 car at a time. Pathetic.

Before I completely despair, will you make us that wrapper please?

We have 47 CCS rapids. http://ccs-map.eu/ (note: one of the irish locations is incorrect: Kilcullen has no rapid)

unkel wrote: »

I was wondering about that myself this evening, kceire, when the above lady drove off in her Zoe and it was completely silent (no VESS obviously). She could have switched it off, of course.

The i3 equivalent (eDrive exterior noise) is the only option not fitted to my car. BMW wanted €200 for it.

unkel wrote: »

They might have 2 parking spaces but they can only charge one car at a time. If there is a CHAdeMO plugged in, the CCS doesn't work and vice versa. WTF? What's that about? It's beyond ridiculous! Is that another only in Ireland special? :mad:

The newer 100kW+ rapids (not being installed in Ireland yet) have the ability to split power between multiple connected cars. ESB.... well even if the rapid could do it the grid connections they've been installing don't have sufficient capacity.

The Efacec's allow a car on AC to charge at the same time as any one of the two DCs, but limit the AC power to 16kW when a car is pulling more than a certain amount from the DC side.

Mope

what exactly liamog is working on? Wrapper for what? Are you working on improving eCar or maybe creating your own thing for Ioniq only? :P

I only today found out about Zap-Map - really nice website, loving it :-]

unkel thanks for touching this topic... so basically if you see Leaf charging it means you will have to wait for him to finish? Is this applicable even if Charging Point has 3 leads? Example station is: "Great gas service station" - M1 Junction 4 (R132) Turvey Donabate (K36 X580). If there is a Leaf charging using CHAdeMO I cannot use even Type 2? Is it not that CHAdeMO is linked to CCS only?

unkel

Pretty depressing stuff altogether, but thanks for your clarification, cros13.

Why is Ireland incompetent in installing proper charging stations though? Not being able to charge more than 1 car at a time? :rolleyes:

They have no problem with that in Norway

unkel

Mope wrote: »

unkel thanks for touching this topic... so basically if you see Leaf charging it means you will have to wait for him to finish? Is this applicable even if Charging Point has 3 leads? Example station is: "Great gas service station" - M1 Junction 4 (R132) Turvey Donabate (K36 X580). If there is a Leaf charging using CHAdeMO I cannot use even Type 2? Is it not that CHAdeMO is linked to CCS only?

Yes, if you see Leaf charging it means you can not fast charge via CCS. You can slow AC type 2 charge at 7.2kW at the same time, but what's the point of that?

Mope

unkel wrote: »

Yes, if you see Leaf charging it means you can not fast charge via CCS. You can slow AC type 2 charge at 7.2kW at the same time, but what's the point of that?

point would be - it would be still 2x faster than granny cable at home... (I still did not have any contact from ESB re my charging point). Should be this week. No?

unkel

Email patrick.foley@esb.ie. He'll get things going. He did for me. Don't expect anything other than what is set in stone, but he will push buttons. Make sure the contractor will install the 6mm2 cable, if needed, buy it yourself

In other news, I don't think I'll bother again with the Irish facebook group. I drive too fast for them, they no like

cros13

unkel wrote: »

Why is Ireland incompetent in installing proper charging stations though? Not being able to charge more than 1 car at a time? :rolleyes:

Because this is what you get when the people designing the EV charging network don't own EVs. Two of the people in eCars eventually bought Leafs after they'd decided the network was complete and they'd achieved full geographic coverage (in theory) for the Leaf.

ESBs official stance is that the rollout of the rapid charging network is finished and that it's sufficient for up to 20,000 EVs. They p**sed away most of the money on installing streetside charging that's basically unused, while installing single rapids in the back of supermarket car parks with insufficient grid connection, so to add another rapid or a 100kW+ rapid they have to rip it all out and start from scratch.

They have done some things right... 24/7 phone support is better than the 9-5 5-day support ecotricity in the UK offers. But on the other hand ecotricity have two rapids per site and do their maintenance in a timely fashion.

If I'd been in charge... day 1 would have been standardised rapid sites with
a minimum of two rapids, a minimum 680kVa grid connection and better physical positioning. And with the new 350/400kW rapids they are going to need even bigger grid connections, even 680kVA isn't going to cut it anymore (a 4 or 8 bay rapid site will need a grid connection equivalent to that required by a small town).

unkel wrote: »

They have no problem with that in Norway

Norway's not a good example, their networks are fractured and they still have quite a lot of single rapid sites etc. At nebbenes (the image you posted) there are two fortum-owned rapids in the corner... the rest of it is Tesla.

The best network I've ever used is FastNed in the netherlands... they have less total rapids than ESB but they've done the job right and their network is far superior despite concentrating their rapids in half the sites ESB has:

And they have:

A minimum of two rapids per site
Pre-installed cabling and grid capacity for 8 rapids
A free backup 22kW AC Type 2 post in the unlikely event there is an issue with both rapids
Reliable ABB chargers
Complimentary Tesla Chademo adapter
Free WiFi
Nearby 24/7 shop and toilets
A roof

They charge reasonable rates and are building to 200 sites this year (57 now), they even have long term plans to expand all the way to Ireland.

Fun fact: their fees are far lower than what ESB was proposing, and they have multiple plans including a drive-up credit-card payment option for 0.59c/kWh

unkel

Great post, cros13, thanks a million. The incompetence of the ESB is unreal. Why do we pay their workers more than €100k salary each? Who decided that street side slow chargers were a great solution for EV owners? They are just ridiculous. The only public charging we need is a handful of fast chargers, just maybe 100 in the country, where say 4-8 cars could charge at the same time at up to 400kW. Is that such a big ask? No need for a big investment as most of the EV charging should be done at home anyway and going forward there would be less and less need for charging away from the home base station. An efficient EV with a 80 kWh battery should be able go from anywhere in Ireland to anywhere else. And back. Without the need for charging.