Next in the Queue - Civil and Public Service Union

titan18 wrote: »

Well, I know people in the public sector who are depressed sitting in an office with people who've got fcuk all interest in doing any work at all, and I'm sure we've all seen several council workers standing around a pot hole/ drain cover.

What Department is that?

amcalester

Calculon1982 wrote: »

Quite alot there and I'm now spending my ill-gotten gains in the pub so I'll leave it at this.

Firstly 18 months ago I approached HR and asked what skills shortages do they forsee the organisation encountering in the next couple of years. I was advised that due to the fact we where moving to more online services we will need web development skills and that we didn't really have anyone with those. I enrolled in an evening course and retrained as a web developer to ensure I could continue to contribute at a decent level.

Secondly without getting too West Wing about it I believe in public service. As a tax payer I expect when I need use of public services that I won't encounter some illiterate idiot on the other side of the counter or phone. I want to be a public servant. Would you prefer we who actually give a **** headed on and in 10 years you can be back here giving out about the crap service you received from some unqualified tool in the passport office or whatever.

Your sense of civic duty is commendable but you seem to think that because you made the decision to stay in the PS that you should be paid more.

Is your job that difficult that it deserves the average industrial wage?

I get your point about staff retention being important in the PS but, to use your example, does it require 8 years experience to work competently in the passport office.

steddyeddy

Senor Fancy Pants wrote: »

What Department is that?

The HSE from experience.

Senor Fancy Pants wrote:

What Department is that?

Cork city council and Ervia

steddyeddy wrote: »

The HSE from experience.

Can you elaborate?

What HSE staff and also tell us what you did to rectify it?

titan18 wrote: »

Cork city council and Ervia

What are these people responsible for and what have you done to change it?

Senor Fancy Pants wrote:

What are these people responsible for and what have you done to change it?

What could I do to change it? I don't work in public sector and they wouldn't be fired anyway.

Sure, just look at Bus Eireann, having way more staff than needed to service their routes. Nothing at all about optimizing the driver schedules to reduce headcount whilst providing best service possible to the customer

[Deleted User]

titan18 wrote: »

Well, I know people in the public sector who are depressed sitting in an office with people who've got fcuk all interest in doing any work at all, and I'm sure we've all seen several council workers standing around a pot hole/ drain cover.

Also, how many people do you know who want to deal with bureaucracy along with a slowness to do things and resistance to change.

Your posts in this thread arent just the weakest puke-dribble of pubtalk level inaccurate begrudgery-tainted anecdote, they're also highly insulting.

Is this intentional, or do you just not care what you come out with?

You've access to plenty of public servants who can inform you on the items that seem to be troubling you if you so wish. Continuing to soil the walls regardless of how people engage with you seems a fairly futile approach.

Deleted User wrote:

You've access to plenty of public servants who can inform you on the items that seem to be troubling you if you so wish. Continuing to soil the walls regardless of how people engage with you seems a fairly futile approach.

OK then. Why do you see several council workers standing around one pothole/manhole cover?

Why does it take so long to get anything done in any department public have to deal with (hospital waiting lists, passports, nct, driving licenses)?

Why is there a load of waste in places like HSE, gardai, bus eireann, Irish water?

Why is their so much overtime for things like opening parks at a weekend? Should that not be rostered work and gave different shift schedules for employees?

[Deleted User]

titan18 wrote: »

OK then. Why do you see several council workers standing around one pothole/manhole cover?

Why does it take so long to get anything done in any department public have to deal with (hospital waiting lists, passports, nct, driving licenses)?

Why is there a load of waste in places like HSE, gardai, bus eireann, Irish water?

Why is their so much overtime for things like opening parks at a weekend? Should that not be rostered work and gave different shift schedules for employees?

Exhibit 1-4 of begging the question.

If I was of a mind to accept any one of the above as based on fact I'd still regard them all as off-topic in a thread about the CPSU, a union representing the officers hardly likely to be involved in a decision making capacity to affect any of the structural or strategic issues that may or may not be factors in the items you want to discuss.

Go start a thread on them, maybe prove any one of them versus services provided in a similar society/economy. I could pop in, depending on how the football is going.

diomed

Central Statistics Office
2016Q4
Average Weekly Earnings (Euro): public sector: Euro 921.74
Average Weekly Earnings (Euro): private sector Euro 658.30
(40.01% higher)

Phoebas wrote: »

On the other hand, if you manage to spend 23 years as a CO without getting a promotion then 37k is probably too high.

Some people are happy at the grade they are. Did you ever consider that not everyone is driven by money?

Parchment wrote: »

Some people are happy at the grade they are. Did you ever consider that not everyone is driven by money?

Then,why are they asking for more money?

I also like how the CPSU say

The union’s deputy general secretary Derek Mullen said the new Public Service Pay Commission should not in its analysis use comparisons with private sector employments which had poor pay and conditions.

“Low levels of pay in the private sector are unacceptable and not an excuse to drag down public service wages.”
He said lower-paid civil servants would fight for better holiday arrangements to bring them up to a par with management grades.

It's pretty much the only valid comparison to have, and there's a feckload of private sector employment where managers have more holidays than team members. It's pretty much par for the course in employment.

[Deleted User]

diomed wrote: »

Central Statistics Office
2016Q4
Average Weekly Earnings (Euro): public sector: Euro 921.74
Average Weekly Earnings (Euro): private sector Euro 658.30

Has been answered dozens of times on the site.

There's no simple and useful way of comparing "all public" and "all private" wages.

Sector by sector, or role by role, qualification taken into account, percentile group of earnings within the two all give varying results that either side can use.

Short answer is that lowest paid workers in public sector earn more. Highest paid earn a lot less. The private sector skews a lot more towards lower paid.

That's without taking into account the nature of the services offered by public sector and why they are considered unsuitable for provision by private market profit-motive operators.

But i mean cmon we know all this.

titan18 wrote: »

Then,why are they asking for more money?

We are not asking for it yet but ourpay was reduced and should be restored (as was promised to us). We are also working more hours for less money now - we took the hit and now want our pay back. Whats so wrong with that?

Parchment wrote: »

Some people are happy at the grade they are. Did you ever consider that not everyone is driven by money?

Absolutely.
I've no problem with that at all. Now, if their union could stop threatening industrial action and telling the state to 'pay up'....

diomed

Or .... the people who generate the income get a lot less than the people who serve them.
I agree that the people in the public service are much higher qualified than people in the private sector. The numbers I posted prove it.

Parchment wrote: »

We are not asking for it yet but ourpay was reduced and should be restored (as was promised to us). We are also working more hours for less money now - we took the hit and now want our pay back. Whats so wrong with that?

Didn't civil servants get a pay rise just last week?

Phoebas wrote: »

Absolutely.
I've no problem with that at all. Now, if their union could stop threatening industrial action and telling the state to 'pay up'....

Why should they stop? the government are not known for handing out pay raises willy nilly.

Phoebas wrote: »

Didn't civil servants get a pay rise just last week?

Well if we did - they must have forgotten to put it in my wages.

Parchment wrote: »

Why should they stop? the government are not known for handing out pay raises willy nilly.

There was a pay rise last week.

Arcade_Tryer

diomed wrote: »

Central Statistics Office
2016Q4
Average Weekly Earnings (Euro): public sector: Euro 921.74
Average Weekly Earnings (Euro): private sector Euro 658.30
(40.01% higher)

Lies, damned lies, and statistics.

Parchment wrote: »

We are not asking for it yet but ourpay was reduced and should be restored (as was promised to us). We are also working more hours for less money now - we took the hit and now want our pay back. Whats so wrong with that?

Cos ye were overpaid in 2007 and was adjusted. How many hours a week do ye work now with the extra hours, and what could you get elsewhere for a similar job in the private sector?

diomed wrote: »

Or .... the people who generate the income get a lot less than the people who serve them.
I agree that the people in the public service are much higher qualified than people in the private sector. The numbers I posted prove it.

The numbers prove they're higher paid not higher qualified.

Parchment wrote: »

Well if we did - they must have forgotten to put it in my wages.

If? You hardly need it if you didn't even know about it.

http://cpsu.ie/revised-pay-rates-applying-to-civil-servants-from-1-april-2017/

Arcade_Tryer

diomed wrote: »

Or .... the people who generate the income get a lot less than the people who serve them.
I agree that the people in the public service are much higher qualified than people in the private sector. The numbers I posted prove it.

The numbers you posted prove that numbers can have a narrative and that statistics can be used to tell stories.

Donal55

Phoebas wrote: »

There was a pay rise last week.

Kicked in 1 April for all those in unions which stood by LRA.
Not sure about those teachers outside the net.

diomed wrote: »

I agree that the people in the public service are much higher qualified than people in the private sector. The numbers I posted prove it.

The numbers you posted don't mention qualifications at all.

The problem with these public sector pay debates is that people tend to leave the facts at the door.

Arcade_Tryer

titan18 wrote: »

Cos ye were overpaid in 2007 and was adjusted. How many hours a week do ye work now with the extra hours, and what could you get elsewhere for a similar job in the private sector?

They weren't overpaid. But don't let that get in the way of what you want to believe!

The numbers prove they're higher paid not higher qualified.

Those numbers prove working in averages is pointless when comparing private and public sector wages across the entire population.

Phoebas wrote: »

If? You hardly need it if you didn't even know about it.

http://cpsu.ie/revised-pay-rates-applying-to-civil-servants-from-1-april-2017/

Sorry, what? i was just wiping my behind with a 50e note.